Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Umps got it wrong - need a please explain



Recommended Posts

Don’t know if you guys remember but a Chelsea Roffey goal line decision cost us a top 4 position and we finished fifth. It was around 2005. Guess who the match was against? Adelaide. We ended up getting a draw instead of a win, because she gave a point for a goal. It had cleared the line. The extra 2 points would have seen us finish fourth. I think we ended up at Fremantle away, in the semi finals, which we lost!

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We should definitely refer to the AFL. We are a club that should alert the AFL, other clubs, umpires and supporters that we will not be treated lightly. We will not roll over and continue to accept poor decision making. We will not accept it lightly from our players and will not accept it from others.

We will respect and accept rules and practices but always strive for the right and best actions to be taken.

We need to be consistent and send this attitude to our players.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm intrigued by the number of posters who will spend hours looking at slow motion videos and splitting hairs to justify an umpire's ignoring an deliberate out of bounds when almost everyone who saw it in real time has no doubt, especially when compared to some of the dubious DoB calls we see all the time these days.  

I suspect many of them are motivated by wishing to to put heat on the club for not closing the game down earlier, but that is not the issue. Bad inconsistent umpiring that may lose you the GF is.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, sue said:

I'm intrigued by the number of posters who will spend hours looking at slow motion videos and splitting hairs to justify an umpire's ignoring an deliberate out of bounds when almost everyone who saw it in real time has no doubt, especially when compared to some of the dubious DoB calls we see all the time these days.  

I suspect many of them are motivated by wishing to to put heat on the club for not closing the game down earlier, but that is not the issue. Bad inconsistent umpiring that may lose you the GF is.

Spot on. Have we actually received an "apology"

  • Angry 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, sue said:

I'm intrigued by the number of posters who will spend hours looking at slow motion videos and splitting hairs to justify an umpire's ignoring an deliberate out of bounds when almost everyone who saw it in real time has no doubt, especially when compared to some of the dubious DoB calls we see all the time these days.  

I suspect many of them are motivated by wishing to to put heat on the club for not closing the game down earlier, but that is not the issue. Bad inconsistent umpiring that may lose you the GF is.

Sorry Sue, but the slow mo videos may cast light on whether it was deliberate or not. And I feel they definitely do-others may disagree but my view and opinion was  t hat the ball started t omove sideays and slightly upward then took a sudden dive south toward the ground. Thats a deflection off Spargo to me. Thats my view anyway. 

What evidence do you have that almost everyone who saw it in real time had no doubt?

Are you referring to Melbourne supporters? Adelaide supporters? those who were at the match on the other side of the ground;? those who were behind the goals or viewing from the pocket or half forward flank? the players? supporters who watched it on tv? Who exactly are these "almost everyone who saw it live?

Edited by Demons3031
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, binman said:

As you note Webber, that an egregious error like the one made in at least three games his season has had direct bearing on the result of a gem at the very elite level of a fully professional sport - Australia's biggest sport by some magnitude.

It is important Ii think to differentiate between a basic error, that might be open to interpretation, of the sort that happened 20 times game and an egregious error like the one that cost the MFC a minimum of 2, and potentially 4 premiership points.

Those points could be, say the difference between the MFC playing the Lions at the MCG in the qualifying final or playing that game at the Gabba (which would be ironic, as the Lions may miss top four, or a home QF, becuase of egregious error at Kardinia Park). So the implications for such an error are huge.

I don't blame the umpires for these sort egregious errors. The blame lies with the AFL

Of course the umpires don't cheat. And deliberate home town bias is baloney. But the umpires have to have the ability to make the correct calls under the most extreme pressure, like a manic finish with 50, 000 home fans going ballistic. And it is up to the AFL to ensure they have that ability.

And to so the only meaningful option is to have professional umpires. Failure to do so basically is an admission the game will accept x number of such season shaping errors every year. And on sheer probability, one such egregious error will happen in the Grand Final at some point and result in an underserving winner.

Is that what the AFL want? Is that what the fans want?

History is clear on this question. And the answer is no.

On the back of the goals that was awarded to hawkins after the ball hit the post in the 2009 Grand Final, and arguably changed the result of the game (though wasn't in the last minute) the score review system was brought in.

Leaving aside that 12 years later it is still a mess, no one really argues we should not continue using the technology to prevent howlers. Because as they said at the time - do we really want a grand final decided by an error from a goal umpire? 

Why is the scenario in the dees and cat v lions games any different. Blatant errors determined the result. 

Which actually suggests a short term fix. In the last say 60 or 90 seconds of the game (becuase ieven though all really bad errors might impact a result, we can only be certain they will in the last 60 or 90 seconds of a game - and it would take too long if applied throughout a match,) , where possible, any such gregarious errors should be reversed by the video umpire. We have the system in place already.

Realistically it could only happen when there is there is stoppage immediately or soon after the contentious decision - or non decision. (as when the ball is motion it would not be fair to stop the play).  So wouldn't happen that often. Bu in the two examples this season there has been a stoppage.

The video umpire tells the field umpires to stop play and that a piece of play will be reviewed.  They review the play and if they believe an obvious error has been made, reverse, or apply the free. As would have occurred in the dees game. 

Such an approach is wholly consistent wit the use of technology to review goals to make sure the game is as fair as possible. 

In an ideal world we would have a panel of full time professional umpiring our game, who receive the under the right training (eg making correct decision under extreme pressure - training that no doubt exists) supported by judicious use of video technology. 

 

I suspect that’s almost too sensible, binman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Demons3031 said:

Sorry Sue, but the slow mo videos may cast light on whether it was deliberate or not. And I feel they definitely do-others may disagree but my view and opinion was  t hat the ball started t omove sideays and slightly upward then took a sudden dive south toward the ground. Thats a deflection off Spargo to me. Thats my view anyway. 

What evidence do you have that almost everyone who saw it in real time had no doubt?

Are you referring to Melbourne supporters? Adelaide supporters? those who were at the match on the other side of the ground;? those who were behind the goals or viewing from the pocket or half forward flank? the players? supporters who watched it on tv? Who exactly are these "almost everyone who saw it live?

I just read the Fox reports and report in the Age. I guess all those commentators are MFC supporters.   By live, I meant wihtout slo-mo. I expect  many at the ground breathed a huge sigh of relief when the panealty was not applied.

In any case, the umpire did not see it in slo-mo. And since a deflection is not relevant to the player's intent unless he intended an entirely different direction and the ball suffered a major deflection, even if the umpire thought it was touched, it shouldn't change the call.  Even if it goes out 1 metre from where he intended, it is still deliberate if OOB  was his intent. 

The one I am waiting for is a deliberate within the goal square under pressure intended for a behind which hits the point post on the full but may have shaved Gawn's beard. Enjoy slo-mo-ing that.

  • Like 4
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Scoop Junior said:

He wasn't. He was in the right position, well inside 50, not too far from the action.

He saw it but didn't pay it.

Look again, he’s a fair way behind the players and Fritsch and his opponents are directly in his path to the ball. The umpire at the front of the screen is a boundary umpire. The field umpire does as well as he can but he couldn’t see what the Crows player and Spargo were doing 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Our mistakes / poor performance during the game put us in the position where umpires' mistakes could have affected the outcome of the game. We should not have been in that position in the first place, and we only have ourselves to blame - that was the point I made. 

I'm sure the coaches and playing group accept that as fact. They are smart enough to know that we can directly control and (hopefully) fix mistakes our playing group made, so that we are a better side next week. 

How umpires umpire is not under our control. Like it or not, umpires will make mistakes - although we can demand better of them, no question or argument there.  

I haven’t discussed our performance last night, so I’m not sure who you’re talking to. I have been discussing the performance of the umpires, and that ‘control’ of their performance must be improved by the central body, the AFL, simply because the individual clubs who by volume of their support - us - are both the reason the game exists and its primary stakeholders. Of course we coulda shoulda woulda been better to have put ourselves beyond the umpires. I said precisely that in the gameday thread. Let the homecrowd influence in, and its worth 1-2 goals a quarter. Once again, this is about bad umpiring adversely our game, the one that all 18 clubs play. I want to let the players play, and make themselves better. I do NOT want bad umpiring to continue to diminish our game. These are separate issues. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, sue said:

I just read the Fox reports and report in the Age. I guess all those commentators are MFC supporters.   By live, I meant wihtout slo-mo. I expect  many at the ground breathed a huge sigh of relief when the panealty was not applied.

In any case, the umpire did not see it in slo-mo. And since a deflection is not relevant to the player's intent unless he intended an entirely different direction and the ball suffered a major deflection, even if the umpire thought it was touched, it shouldn't change the call.  Even if it goes out 1 metre from where he intended, it is still deliberate if OOB  was his intent. 

The one I am waiting for is a deliberate within the goal square under pressure intended for a behind which hits the point post on the full but may have shaved Gawn's beard. Enjoy slo-mo-ing that.

Perfectly put sue.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, loges said:

Spot on. Have we actually received an "apology"

Mate just text me saying AFL admitted it was the wrong call. Was reported on Channel 10 news according to mate.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


18 minutes ago, sue said:

I just read the Fox reports and report in the Age. I guess all those commentators are MFC supporters.   By live, I meant wihtout slo-mo. I expect  many at the ground breathed a huge sigh of relief when the panealty was not applied.

In any case, the umpire did not see it in slo-mo. And since a deflection is not relevant to the player's intent unless he intended an entirely different direction and the ball suffered a major deflection, even if the umpire thought it was touched, it shouldn't change the call.  Even if it goes out 1 metre from where he intended, it is still deliberate if OOB  was his intent. 

The one I am waiting for is a deliberate within the goal square under pressure intended for a behind which hits the point post on the full but may have shaved Gawn's beard. Enjoy slo-mo-ing that.

Hi Sue I guess my view was that he was handballing sideways and not in the straight ahead direction in which it ended up going from the deflection He was much further from the boundary on the side  and the slight upward direction too giving players a chance to touch it would  also have cast doubt - he could well have been vaguely aware of the Crows player on his l right ,though we will probably never know. To me the deflection(which could easily have not been noticed it all happened so quickly) and the subsequent bounce of the ball in such a split second could easily have been seen as deliberate.

Thats why I felt the video helped clarify things-for me at least. Bet we each can see the same thing and see it differently. Cheers Sue  :)  P>S I am still aggrieved by the decisions in the final against the Hawks-against VIney and Brayshaw I think? I'm glad we won that despite those ones :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This one is the most blatant of the three match changing non decisions this season with zero ambiguity to argue. That umpire needs to be demoted for the rest of the season.

Edited by John Crow Batty
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The umpire thought there was a Crows teammate in the vicinity of the handball. How do you explain Lever’s deliberate then? The inconsistencies drive fans mad. Not sure if I feel better or worse to be honest after the admission.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Demons3031 said:

Hi Sue I guess my view was that he was handballing sideways and not in the straight ahead direction in which it ended up going from the deflection He was much further from the boundary on the side  and the slight upward direction too giving players a chance to touch it would  also have cast doubt - he could well have been vaguely aware of the Crows player on his l right ,though we will probably never know. To me the deflection(which could easily have not been noticed it all happened so quickly) and the subsequent bounce of the ball in such a split second could easily have been seen as deliberate.

Thats why I felt the video helped clarify things-for me at least. Bet we each can see the same thing and see it differently. Cheers Sue  :)  P>S I am still aggrieved by the decisions in the final against the Hawks-against VIney and Brayshaw I think? I'm glad we won that despite those ones :)

Good to see the AFL making a call on this. It doesnt change my mind but I'm Ok with their action.  I guess my view is that players  have to have an option- the problem for me is that any action he took could have been deemed wrong. To me he took a reasonable action to go sideways  where it could have stayed in play(when he could have handballed it straight forward) So I disagree with the AFL that the deflection was  unimportant. To me it changed the whole situation. But thats just my view.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was hoping that they actually had got it right and we could be convinced by them and we could move on. But this is infinitely worse. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...