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MT64
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Posted (edited)

Having read comments from last nights game I cannot get SEN's interview with Hayden Kennedy yesterday by Dwayne Russell out of my mind. Kennedy's assessment of this years umpiring was that it was very good.

Having nearly driven off the road laughing, the first thing that comes to my mind is that the AFL have made this game one of the hardest to umpire of any code in the world, continuously adding interpretations to the rules. I really feel for the umpires as these guys are part time and not only need to maintain a level of fitness but take onboard new rules/interpretations and practice them for matches.

I feel one of the main reasons frees are not paid is the positioning of the ruling umpire. Players have perfected having their backs to the umpires with numerous other players covering throws and some tackles.Why can't the boundary umpires signal an infringement?  Kennedy's comment was that would cause more frees and slow the game down. Not what the AFL wants he said.

How some teams seem to be favoured by umpires upset other club supporters with continual ducking of heads, excessively oiled up arms (guess who), obvious throwing the ball, dropping the ball when tackled and some players tackled and spun 360+ allowed with no penalties. Kennedy's response was if the umpire is not sure play on. There really must be a lot of "not sure" umpires at Geelong, Western Bulldog and West Coast  games. I know all teams get away with some but when games are won with bad decisions you just wonder.

Scragging of forwards and rucks are just part of the game he said and let go but again some teams get a better result than others. Some of the treatments of Max really should be pulled up but with his continual "chatting" to umpires perhaps they overlook his case. We'll never know.

A comment last night on NON MFC Rd 09 2021 of Steve Hocking sitting on the umpires bench on the ground probably not a good look with Geelong playing. Who know's what was said.

I'll say it again that this really is a hard game to umpire and don't understand why the umpires are not professional. Kennedy's response was that some have very professional jobs and would leave. As the game is fully professional it is not acceptable that the AFL have part time umpires who can effect game results. Bit of a stretch but look at Geelong V Brisbane Not saying it was deliberate.

I have sort of combined both, decisions going Geelong's way last night (don't they always) and the interview on SEN yesterday and commented on my thoughts of the game being umpired. I appreciate that I might have just scratched the surface as others may have more insight to umpiring for comment. I also know that "it is what it is"  BUT why do some teams always get the better rub of the ball. 

Edited by MT64
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One of my huge  bugbears in umpiring is when a player who has the ball gets incorrectly tackled or buried under a pile gets pinged for holding the ball.

IMO the prime umping duty of care should be to encourage the player to get the ball, and protect him, and ONLY if correctly tackled AND doesn't correctly dispose should he be penalised.

All too often we see one ridden into the ground under 3 or 4 players and unable to get rid of it - HTB!!!  Even though he has been the subject of "in the back" and often "high tackle / around the neck"!  This only encourages the vultures of the game, and discourages the brave ball getter.

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15 minutes ago, MT64 said:

. I also know that "it is what it is"  BUT why do some teams always get the better rub of the ball. 

I fully agree with this idea some clubs get a better run but why is a great question.

Home teams especially interstate have large crowd bias which sways calls.

In more neutral games I think there are clubs that are more glamerous than others especially constant winning ones with glamour players. Cats last night a perfect example.

Dees have not been glamerous nor do we have large crowds. I reckon even wirh my own supporter bias we often get robbed.

Sometimes at crucial times and in crucial places. Maybe we are just are not relevent in umpires minds. Not sure if it can be fully explained. Fugazzi?

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4 minutes ago, monoccular said:

One of my huge  bugbears in umpiring is when a player who has the ball gets incorrectly tackled or buried under a pile gets pinged for holding the ball.

IMO the prime umping duty of care should be to encourage the player to get the ball, and protect him, and ONLY if correctly tackled AND doesn't correctly dispose should he be penalised.

All too often we see one ridden into the ground under 3 or 4 players and unable to get rid of it - HTB!!!  Even though he has been the subject of "in the back" and often "high tackle / around the neck"!  This only encourages the vultures of the game, and discourages the brave ball getter.

Don't forget the amount of times the ball is pinned in by the tackler when the player is trying to get rid of it. The tackler gets rewarded for HTB when they're the ones slowing play down.

The spirit of the game has always been to protect and reward the player going for the ball.

As mentioned above, the umpires need to be professionals if they're serious about it. Umpires should also be dropped if they've had a poor game.

It is a very hard game to adjudicate and the AFL needs to invest in umpiring as a career of sorts if they want a good standard of game.

I watched a Norf player (I think) last week get penalised for deliberate when he kicked forward into his own forward 50 and it shanked off the side of his boot. That ump should have been dropped.

Also stop with the stupid rule changes for the sake of change. Hocking.....

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Posted (edited)

Cannot help think that the AFL want certain teams always up there especially for the larger crowds (pre-covit) as that is one of the main measuring points for their bonus's are "bums on seats". We need to increase our weekly attendances, however it doesn't help when the fixture gives us small interstate matches. For instance I think we have only had two home games at the"G" against Essendon since around 2010-2011. All the rest were their home games.

Edited by MT64
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6 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Don't forget the amount of times the ball is pinned in by the tackler when the player is trying to get rid of it. The tackler gets rewarded for HTB when they're the ones slowing play down.

The spirit of the game has always been to protect and reward the player going for the ball.

As mentioned above, the umpires need to be professionals if they're serious about it. Umpires should also be dropped if they've had a poor game.

It is a very hard game to adjudicate and the AFL needs to invest in umpiring as a career of sorts if they want a good standard of game.

I watched a Norf player (I think) last week get penalised for deliberate when he kicked forward into his own forward 50 and it shanked off the side of his boot. That ump should have been dropped.

Also stop with the stupid rule changes for the sake of change. Hocking.....

Kennedy did address that problem on SEN and said it was mentioned in passing but nothing else. Their main concern are trends that umpires do which is when they really discuss the matter with all umpires - which generally brings a new interpretation.

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29 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Everything is going pretty well for us, this is the worst possible time to bring up something like biased umpiring if you know your MFC history...

 

Yes. Well aware of our history but just making an observation on this current season. A woods supporter neighbour chewed my ear off about the same subject this morning.

 

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11 minutes ago, 640MD said:

So mal, are you changing your name to mal van golf ,?

As you know the shoulders are next so golf is out for the next year or so.

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I can’t help being amused by that reasoning for not making umpires professional. It’s like that guy who doesn’t want to make any changes to his ****ty relationship out of fear she will leave.

Even if that’s the case with the current crop, you can map a path towards making them professional. It doesn’t have to be an overnight change.

The role is insanely difficult compared to other sports. Asking people to do it part time isn’t really fair to any party. Including the fans.

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2 hours ago, monoccular said:

One of my huge  bugbears in umpiring is when a player who has the ball gets incorrectly tackled or buried under a pile gets pinged for holding the ball.

IMO the prime umping duty of care should be to encourage the player to get the ball, and protect him, and ONLY if correctly tackled AND doesn't correctly dispose should he be penalised.

All too often we see one ridden into the ground under 3 or 4 players and unable to get rid of it - HTB!!!  Even though he has been the subject of "in the back" and often "high tackle / around the neck"!  This only encourages the vultures of the game, and discourages the brave ball getter.

A couple of classic examples in today’s Norf Hawks game Mono !

Blokes ridden into the ground and then pinged

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There was a call of 'not 15' in the last quarter of the Hawks-North game that was laughable...since the ball travelled at least 30 metres.

It was intended as a pass and the donkey of an umpire decided it was only going as far as the player whose territory it was...the ball flew over his head and ran out of bounds before he could gather. It simply exposed 'not 15' as the rule of the month. These blokes really don't deserve respect.

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3 hours ago, Brownie said:

 

I watched a Norf player (I think) last week get penalised for deliberate when he kicked forward into his own forward 50 and it shanked off the side of his boot. That ump should have been dropped.

To be fair that kick deserved a free against just for being so terrible...

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1 hour ago, P-man said:

I can’t help being amused by that reasoning for not making umpires professional. It’s like that guy who doesn’t want to make any changes to his ****ty relationship out of fear she will leave.

Even if that’s the case with the current crop, you can map a path towards making them professional. It doesn’t have to be an overnight change.

The role is insanely difficult compared to other sports. Asking people to do it part time isn’t really fair to any party. Including the fans.

Quite right. What I did leave out of the conversation is that Kennedy said that the AFL will have many women umpires within 5 years and the bouncing of the ball will be got rid of. Kennedy even said that there was a change around 5 years ago where the umpires were throwing the ball up more and said THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE. (I meant the bold) Of course we did.

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3 hours ago, MT64 said:

Having read comments from last nights game I cannot get SEN's interview with Hayden Kennedy yesterday by Dwayne Russell out of my mind. Kennedy's assessment of this years umpiring was that it was very good.

I heard that interview and it was a disgrace. This man is (was) the director of umpiring and his complacency  towards the rules he is supposed to be enforcing is shameful.

3 hours ago, MT64 said:

I'll say it again that this really is a hard game to umpire and don't understand why the umpires are not professional. Kennedy's response was that some have very professional jobs and would leave. As the game is fully professional it is not acceptable that the AFL have part time umpires who can effect game results. Bit of a stretch but look at Geelong V Brisbane Not saying it was deliberate.

The inmates are running the asylum.

So two or three highly paid lawyers are allowed to hijack the future of the game because it would somehow be disastrous if they gave up their part time umpiring gig. They would be "lost to the game".

Well how about this? Maybe with professional umpires, more would aspire to it, and the game might "find" some decent umpires who were motivated by it being their breadwinning vocation. And juniors might stick with it, suspecting they might get "job security", "tenure", "support from city hall" and a few other quaint concepts that haven't occurred to the literal amateurs currently running the show.

With the state of umpiring as it is, would the loss of these so-called "top" umpires be any real loss? Some "bad" free kicks might be paid? Would anyone even notice?

Kennedy was asked about that very strange decision where a guy had a kick at goal, it went off the side of his boot, and he was pinged for deliberate. Is there any better indication that the umpires have lost their way and have no confidence in what they are doing? A situation that can be sheeted home directly to ... the director of umpiring.

Kennedy said yes, that one actually was wrong, and it was a "communication issue" between the three umpires, which they worked on in training this week. Maybe, just maybe, professional umpires would have the time & the means & the will to work on potential "communication issues" BEFORE they emerge in a match?

It's an old cliche in footy that the umpires are blind. In the case of Hayden Kennedy, it might actually be true.

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19 minutes ago, RigidMiddleDigit said:

There was a call of 'not 15' in the last quarter of the Hawks-North game that was laughable...since the ball travelled at least 30 metres.

It was intended as a pass and the donkey of an umpire decided it was only going as far as the player whose territory it was...the ball flew over his head and ran out of bounds before he could gather. It simply exposed 'not 15' as the rule of the month. These blokes really don't deserve respect.

Rule of the week. It's nice to know in these uncertain times that some things never change.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, monoccular said:

One of my huge  bugbears in umpiring is when a player who has the ball gets incorrectly tackled or buried under a pile gets pinged for holding the ball.

IMO the prime umping duty of care should be to encourage the player to get the ball, and protect him, and ONLY if correctly tackled AND doesn't correctly dispose should he be penalised.

All too often we see one ridden into the ground under 3 or 4 players and unable to get rid of it - HTB!!!  Even though he has been the subject of "in the back" and often "high tackle / around the neck"!  This only encourages the vultures of the game, and discourages the brave ball getter.

Also, milking a free by gripping the player's hand so he can't get rid of it. Sometimes dangerous and not in the spirit of the code. What year did this abysmal practice start?

Edited by bush demon
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3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I fully agree with this idea some clubs get a better run but why is a great question.

Some clubs know how to suck up to the umpires better. Our amateur hour umpires are oblivious to the manipulation.

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Home teams especially interstate have large crowd bias which sways calls.

A known phenomenon in sports around the world except to the remote corner of the world known as the AFL football competition.

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3 hours ago, MT64 said:

Kennedy did address that problem on SEN and said it was mentioned in passing but nothing else. Their main concern are trends that umpires do which is when they really discuss the matter with all umpires - which generally brings a new interpretation.

They're all in on this bogus paradigm.

The very concept of "interpretation" is a blight on the game and means simply that the rues are poorly framed. Think of one other sport of any variety that requires its rules to be "interpreted". Bueller?

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2 hours ago, FritschyBusiness said:

Generally I think the umpiring has been pretty decent this year. 

The non calls for incorrect disposal makes me tear my hair out, but other than that its been pretty decent.

A lot better than previous years

First two rounds I would agree. Since then it's deteriorated to be as bad as the last two years, which were an all time low for this long time watcher.

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25 minutes ago, MT64 said:

Quite right. What I did leave out of the conversation is that Kennedy said that the AFL will have many women umpires within 5 years and the bouncing of the ball will be got rid of. Kennedy even said that there was a change around 5 years ago where the umpires were throwing the ball up more and said THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE. (I meant the bold) Of course we did.

Football umpires are all blind. Ha ha. In Kennedy's case, it might literally be true.

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10 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

First two rounds I would agree. Since then it's deteriorated to be as bad as the last two years, which were an all time low for this long time watcher.

The three that bug me are:

- throwing the ball (Dogs get away with murder, won a flag doing it!)

- dropping the ball in a tackle (Swans last week)

- holding the man (rarely paid)

Demon special:

- how many times does Max get hit in the back of the head, blocked, belted into and rarely gets a free!

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3 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Demon special:

- how many times does Max get hit in the back of the head, blocked, belted into and rarely gets a free!

The head is sacrosanct. Gil said that once, possibly talking about the craft beer getting pulled for him at the Portsea ponies.

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