What winning means to the team?

[Altona-demon 318]

Winning this much is a strange feeling right?  But it's caused me to reflect on what it means for this team and club more generally.  A couple of observations. 

1. This might not gel with some people on DL, but our squad was dominated by losers.  Repeatedly our stars (Viney, Brayshaw, Jones, Oliver) had lost lots of games.  And when the blowtorch came on in the Norf game it was interesting to watch Brayshaw in particular start to fluff kicks, or just heads start to go down.  That all too familiar MFCSS started to come on, that familiar old feeling as we waited for our team to roll over like good trained losers.  But we didn't - and why?  Because we are now starting to build a winning culture - people who just win.  It has been instructive to watch conditioned winners in the young team (who have probably always been winners in their younger careers) come in and play with that youthful exuberance and unencumbered drive to win.  These guys don't have the baggage of being habitual AFL losers like some of our more senior members of the squad.  I think this makes a HUGE mental difference in pressure situations and has been one of the most positive changes in this team, this year. 

2. This team still plays with the yips.  When Dusty Martin takes a forward 50 mark - you can see he is relishing the moment and wants to kick the goals to win the games. Oliver,  Petracca, Max, Brayshaw and Kozzie are still not there yet.  Look out when this winning confidence starts to do what it is doing to someone like Tom McDonald (confidence 200% atm). There are more gears to this team. 

3. MFCSS is just another way of saying you don't trust the club.  I've been trying to put my finger on why I suddenly don't feel anxious about the club during games.  Then I realised, I actually trust this team.  They say trust is something that cannot be given it must be earned.  And being a generally positive person, I freely admit I've given my trust quicker than some other DL'ers may do - but jesus when they keep working through games I knew that they would lose in the past (in my heart of hearts) - then trust will flow.  It's a strange feeling to trust a team to win - feels good. 

A last point, if you want a reflection on where this club is now think about how Carlton FC must feel about their team and squad, because I can guarantee you they have a really strong case of the CFCSS.  Put another way, if we really want to beat Carlton this weekend all we need to do is get inside where we as a club have been at for the last three years before we began turning this corner.  So here's how you beat a mentally weak, habitual loser of a club:

1. You niggle them, pressure them constantly, and beat them early.  In short you bully them on the park and let them know that they are not at the same level as you are. They lack resilience

2. You play a four quarter game and never have patches where you aren't competing.  You are ready to pounce when they inevitably have that patch in the game when they question whether they are good enough to win and they go quiet.

3. You hit them late in quarters

4. You get on chains of scoring - once they are down they struggle to bounce back and lack resilience. 

If these weaknesses sound all too familiar, that's because they are, that was us less than 12 months ago. 

 

[TRIGON 4,715]

Great post @Altona-demon.  Those early season 'come from behind' wins against St Kilda and Geelong were very important in terms of building self-belief.

[Altona-demon 318]

Thanks @TRIGON - agree 100%, it's strange we might look back at this group and look at those first 4 games in a completely different light (pending on future results) - certainly felt and feels like something has changed or turned. 

[Demon17 4,541]

1 hour ago, Altona-demon said:

Winning this much is a strange feeling right?  But it's caused me to reflect on what it means for this team and club more generally.  A couple of observations. 

1. This might not gel with some people on DL, but our squad was dominated by losers.  Repeatedly our stars (Viney, Brayshaw, Jones, Oliver) had lost lots of games.  And when the blowtorch came on in the Norf game it was interesting to watch Brayshaw in particular start to fluff kicks, or just heads start to go down.  That all too familiar MFCSS started to come on, that familiar old feeling as we waited for our team to roll over like good trained losers.  But we didn't - and why?  Because we are now starting to build a winning culture - people who just win.  It has been instructive to watch conditioned winners in the young team (who have probably always been winners in their younger careers) come in and play with that youthful exuberance and unencumbered drive to win.  These guys don't have the baggage of being habitual AFL losers like some of our more senior members of the squad.  I think this makes a HUGE mental difference in pressure situations and has been one of the most positive changes in this team, this year. 

2. This team still plays with the yips.  When Dusty Martin takes a forward 50 mark - you can see he is relishing the moment and wants to kick the goals to win the games. Oliver,  Petracca, Max, Brayshaw and Kozzie are still not there yet.  Look out when this winning confidence starts to do what it is doing to someone like Tom McDonald (confidence 200% atm). There are more gears to this team. 

3. MFCSS is just another way of saying you don't trust the club.  I've been trying to put my finger on why I suddenly don't feel anxious about the club during games.  Then I realised, I actually trust this team.  They say trust is something that cannot be given it must be earned.  And being a generally positive person, I freely admit I've given my trust quicker than some other DL'ers may do - but jesus when they keep working through games I knew that they would lose in the past (in my heart of hearts) - then trust will flow.  It's a strange feeling to trust a team to win - feels good. 

A last point, if you want a reflection on where this club is now think about how Carlton FC must feel about their team and squad, because I can guarantee you they have a really strong case of the CFCSS.  Put another way, if we really want to beat Carlton this weekend all we need to do is get inside where we as a club have been at for the last three years before we began turning this corner.  So here's how you beat a mentally weak, habitual loser of a club:

1. You niggle them, pressure them constantly, and beat them early.  In short you bully them on the park and let them know that they are not at the same level as you are. They lack resilience

2. You play a four quarter game and never have patches where you aren't competing.  You are ready to pounce when they inevitably have that patch in the game when they question whether they are good enough to win and they go quiet.

3. You hit them late in quarters

4. You get on chains of scoring - once they are down they struggle to bounce back and lack resilience. 

If these weaknesses sound all too familiar, that's because they are, that was us less than 12 months ago. 

 

A great piece of thoughtful posting AD. Well done.

You remind me of the 1987 team that was the first success I saw, and thinking about the makeup, with Northey as coach, it was full of new and undamaged players.  Very few from the early Barassi years. Viney, Lyon, Spalding, Stynes, O'Dwyer,   etc. abd interstaters like Johnston, Warren dean, Chopper Lovell (1988). Once they made the charge in 87 the belief was obvious.

Very few early 80's player in comparison.

[TRIGON 4,715]

39 minutes ago, Altona-demon said:

Thanks @TRIGON - agree 100%, it's strange we might look back at this group and look at those first 4 games in a completely different light (pending on future results) - certainly felt and feels like something has changed or turned. 

Just checked and we were never behind against Geelong, but we did respond well when challenged in the 3rd quarter.

[Little Goffy 12,549]

I dislike branding people losers, especially the ones who did keep their heads up and keep working when times were awful. It is a huge test of character to keeping giving your best effort when you know the only thing at stake is your self-respect.

There's a slightly different kind of 'loser', though - the one that is only interested in winning and tunes out of anything else. Any Carlton supporter will tell you that the trouble at their club is above all a case of players only wanting to do the 'fun' stuff. Carlton can score prolifically and attack very well but when things go against them far too many see it as someone else's job to tighten up. "I'm a great attacker / I'm a great rebounder, defensive efforts are for Weitering to do."

It was also pointed out to me that Carlton have given away five or six goal runs in every single game this season.

Of course, against Melbourne, that'll be when they decide to draw a line and become determined to work both ways.

Many people don't understand MFCSS.  They think it is just a lack of faith and trust in the club. You have to think big picture - MFCSS is a lack of faith and trust in the entire universe. An upcoming lowly opponent will sack their coach and have a stirring rebound game against us.  That mid-ranked team will get their best two players back and finally have their preferred structures in place when they play us in round 18 after everyone else has had a soft go at them. We'll be the only club in fifteen years that misses out on a priority pick by one excess win, but also be the only club that gets grotesquely shamed for 'tanking' even when we were clearly genuinely awful.

MFCSS dictates that Teague has been told to get the players fired up or get himself fired.  He is almost certainly, right now, having coffee and smashed avocado with Patrick Cripps and saying just the right things to restore his confidence and focus.

We're going to need to bring our best game this week, do not doubt it.

 

[dl4e 5,583]

T o answer the question. Confidence.

[Altona-demon 318]

6 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

I dislike branding people losers, especially the ones who did keep their heads up and keep working when times were awful. It is a huge test of character to keeping giving your best effort when you know the only thing at stake is your self-respect.

There's a slightly different kind of 'loser', though - the one that is only interested in winning and tunes out of anything else. Any Carlton supporter will tell you that the trouble at their club is above all a case of players only wanting to do the 'fun' stuff. Carlton can score prolifically and attack very well but when things go against them far too many see it as someone else's job to tighten up. "I'm a great attacker / I'm a great rebounder, defensive efforts are for Weitering to do."

It was also pointed out to me that Carlton have given away five or six goal runs in every single game this season.

Of course, against Melbourne, that'll be when they decide to draw a line and become determined to work both ways.

Many people don't understand MFCSS.  They think it is just a lack of faith and trust in the club. You have to think big picture - MFCSS is a lack of faith and trust in the entire universe. An upcoming lowly opponent will sack their coach and have a stirring rebound game against us.  That mid-ranked team will get their best two players back and finally have their preferred structures in place when they play us in round 18 after everyone else has had a soft go at them. We'll be the only club in fifteen years that misses out on a priority pick by one excess win, but also be the only club that gets grotesquely shamed for 'tanking' even when we were clearly genuinely awful.

MFCSS dictates that Teague has been told to get the players fired up or get himself fired.  He is almost certainly, right now, having coffee and smashed avocado with Patrick Cripps and saying just the right things to restore his confidence and focus.

We're going to need to bring our best game this week, do not doubt it.

 

My god - its all suddenly clear to me.  MFCSS can be as a deep as the entire universe being aligned against the club, or as simple as disbelieving in the efforts of the MFC on game day (and by obvious extension the maggots internal bias against the MFC faithful). 

It's deep explanatory power of all negative phenomena makes it hard to shift - so what is the yin to this yang.  Is there a possible state where everything and anything aligns for MFC winning? Because seeing some of the injuries (and suspensions) that other teams have suffered prior to playing us - I have begun to wonder..... 

[Altona-demon 318]

35 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

A great piece of thoughtful posting AD. Well done.

You remind me of the 1987 team that was the first success I saw, and thinking about the makeup, with Northey as coach, it was full of new and undamaged players.  Very few from the early Barassi years. Viney, Lyon, Spalding, Stynes, O'Dwyer,   etc. abd interstaters like Johnston, Warren dean, Chopper Lovell (1988). Once they made the charge in 87 the belief was obvious.

Very few early 80's player in comparison.

Many thanks for the kind words @Demon17 - they are much appreciated!

[WalkingCivilWar 31,356]

23 minutes ago, dl4e said:

T o answer the question. Confidence.

Speaking of questions, what does the SS stand for in MFCSS?

[Altona-demon 318]

4 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Speaking of questions, what does the SS stand for in MFCSS?

I assume one stands for "syndrome"

[MrReims 305]

11 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Speaking of questions, what does the SS stand for in MFCSS?

Melbourne Football Club Supporter Syndrome

[Ouch! 2,034]

MFCSS

Melbourne Football Club Supporter Syndrome.

Just on the players and their 'scarring' from losing so much over their careers, ... Dustin Martin started his career losing a lot of games, he has had a similar experience to Brayshaw, Oliver and Petracca, the team did change and turn it around.

I'd also argue that players like Jones and co who have a lot of games in the L column are 'enjoying' the winning feeling even more and as such now have a taste, and the team itself knows what it takes, how to respond, I think losing those games has built resilience into the team ... but that is only evident when you start winning. Look at the kangas, they have no idea how to win as a group, but when they snag one, they'll understand why it was a different performance to a losing one.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ouch!

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

1 hour ago, Altona-demon said:

Winning this much is a strange feeling right?  But it's caused me to reflect on what it means for this team and club more generally.  A couple of observations. 

1. This might not gel with some people on DL, but our squad was dominated by losers.  Repeatedly our stars (Viney, Brayshaw, Jones, Oliver) had lost lots of games.  And when the blowtorch came on in the Norf game it was interesting to watch Brayshaw in particular start to fluff kicks, or just heads start to go down.  That all too familiar MFCSS started to come on, that familiar old feeling as we waited for our team to roll over like good trained losers.  But we didn't - and why?  Because we are now starting to build a winning culture - people who just win.  It has been instructive to watch conditioned winners in the young team (who have probably always been winners in their younger careers) come in and play with that youthful exuberance and unencumbered drive to win.  These guys don't have the baggage of being habitual AFL losers like some of our more senior members of the squad.  I think this makes a HUGE mental difference in pressure situations and has been one of the most positive changes in this team, this year. 

2. This team still plays with the yips.  When Dusty Martin takes a forward 50 mark - you can see he is relishing the moment and wants to kick the goals to win the games. Oliver,  Petracca, Max, Brayshaw and Kozzie are still not there yet.  Look out when this winning confidence starts to do what it is doing to someone like Tom McDonald (confidence 200% atm). There are more gears to this team. 

3. MFCSS is just another way of saying you don't trust the club.  I've been trying to put my finger on why I suddenly don't feel anxious about the club during games.  Then I realised, I actually trust this team.  They say trust is something that cannot be given it must be earned.  And being a generally positive person, I freely admit I've given my trust quicker than some other DL'ers may do - but jesus when they keep working through games I knew that they would lose in the past (in my heart of hearts) - then trust will flow.  It's a strange feeling to trust a team to win - feels good. 

A last point, if you want a reflection on where this club is now think about how Carlton FC must feel about their team and squad, because I can guarantee you they have a really strong case of the CFCSS.  Put another way, if we really want to beat Carlton this weekend all we need to do is get inside where we as a club have been at for the last three years before we began turning this corner.  So here's how you beat a mentally weak, habitual loser of a club:

1. You niggle them, pressure them constantly, and beat them early.  In short you bully them on the park and let them know that they are not at the same level as you are. They lack resilience

2. You play a four quarter game and never have patches where you aren't competing.  You are ready to pounce when they inevitably have that patch in the game when they question whether they are good enough to win and they go quiet.

3. You hit them late in quarters

4. You get on chains of scoring - once they are down they struggle to bounce back and lack resilience. 

If these weaknesses sound all too familiar, that's because they are, that was us less than 12 months ago. 

 

I didn’t think for one moment we would lose to North in Tassie. 
after Viney pulled out and Tomlinson went down it took a while for the Team to reset. 
we pulled away and won by 30 points, notwithstanding a redeye flight to get there…

[WalkingCivilWar 31,356]

14 minutes ago, MrReims said:

Melbourne Football Club Supporter Syndrome

That’s so sad. ?
Sad because it’s not antagonistic or belligerent, like I thought it might be. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by WalkingCivilWar

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 3,818]

7 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

That’s so sad. ?
Sad because it’s not antagonistic or belligerent, like I thought it might be. 

Any suggested cryptic crossword alternatives, WCW??

[DeeZone 7,701]

22 minutes ago, dl4e said:

T o answer the question. Confidence.

dl4e confidence flows from belief in yourself, your teammates, coaches and Club and a Winning Culture. The players are driving this culture and our supporters have not yet fully embraced this massive change but as our confidence grows the traction with supporter members will grow.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,356]

11 minutes ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Any suggested cryptic crossword alternatives, WCW??

While I’m not too shabby at solving cryptic clues, I’m rubbish at setting them. Would love to hear what you can come up with. ?All I can say is that I was sure one of the S’s stood for a word that means excrement. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by WalkingCivilWar
Tried to get one over the mods with their censorship.

[Gawndy the Great 7,317]

1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

I dislike branding people losers, especially the ones who did keep their heads up and keep working when times were awful. It is a huge test of character to keeping giving your best effort when you know the only thing at stake is your self-respect.

There's a slightly different kind of 'loser', though - the one that is only interested in winning and tunes out of anything else. Any Carlton supporter will tell you that the trouble at their club is above all a case of players only wanting to do the 'fun' stuff. Carlton can score prolifically and attack very well but when things go against them far too many see it as someone else's job to tighten up. "I'm a great attacker / I'm a great rebounder, defensive efforts are for Weitering to do."

It was also pointed out to me that Carlton have given away five or six goal runs in every single game this season.

Of course, against Melbourne, that'll be when they decide to draw a line and become determined to work both ways.

Many people don't understand MFCSS.  They think it is just a lack of faith and trust in the club. You have to think big picture - MFCSS is a lack of faith and trust in the entire universe. An upcoming lowly opponent will sack their coach and have a stirring rebound game against us.  That mid-ranked team will get their best two players back and finally have their preferred structures in place when they play us in round 18 after everyone else has had a soft go at them. We'll be the only club in fifteen years that misses out on a priority pick by one excess win, but also be the only club that gets grotesquely shamed for 'tanking' even when we were clearly genuinely awful.

MFCSS dictates that Teague has been told to get the players fired up or get himself fired.  He is almost certainly, right now, having coffee and smashed avocado with Patrick Cripps and saying just the right things to restore his confidence and focus.

We're going to need to bring our best game this week, do not doubt it.

 

This is such a great explanation of the MFCSS - hit the nail on the head!

[Nasher 33,047]

Nice post, but you're tough to single out Brayshaw - his win/loss record is 50-52 and he's only had two seasons in his career where he's played in more losing games than winning ones, one of which was his first one, the other being the car crash that was 2019. I don't think he qualifies as a player who's a bit used to losing. Really the only ones on our list that were there for the really dark times are Jones, Gawn, Viney and McDonald; three of which are leading the resurgence. 

[DeeZee 6,731]

Jordon Jones has never played in a losing team 

[TRIGON 4,715]

56 minutes ago, MrReims said:

Melbourne Football Club Supporter Syndrome

MFCSS. Thank you for clarifying that @MrReims, lest some people get the wrong idea and think it's some detestable ultra-right faction of the MFC.

[ManDee 7,076]

8 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Jordon Jones has never played in a losing team 

Or a winning one.

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

1 hour ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Any suggested cryptic crossword alternatives, WCW??

 

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

While I’m not too shabby at solving cryptic clues, I’m rubbish at setting them. Would love to hear what you can come up with. ?All I can say is that I was sure one of the S’s stood for a word that means excrement. 

Just for fun how is this?

Australian Capital with damaged fallboot and golf stick where a fan has tossed (arid+some+n)

Number of letters in each word: 9,8,4,9,8

Edited May 12, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[Demonstone 19,084]

I'll have a dip!

Rum affliction made ship sail behind Mauritius (1st Class) initially.   (5)