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CASEY DEMONS: Rd 01 vs Box Hill Hawks


kieranbj
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4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Dean Cox was picked up as an 18 year old and debuted as a 19 year old. Max Gawn was the same, he debuted as a 19 year old. Lets not get in way of a good fact there. These guys had already showed by that age the glimpse and capabilities as ruckman to be playing senior football at that age. Bradke is about to hit 21 and did not show anything remotely on the weekend that had a hint of AFL ability in him. He was pushed off the ball far too easily on the weekend and just hates body contact. 

Professor Wikipedia on Dean Cox

“The Eagles then put him on their senior list and he made his AFL debut in 2001. Initially he showed few signs of his potential at that level. However, he was persisted with ...

“He came of age during the 2005 season ...”

Cox turned 24 during the 2005 season when “he came of age” but let’s not get in the way of a good fact. 

Max also had his coming of age season at the same age. 

Luke Jackson is one of the rare breed who has been able to spend time in the ruck on a consistent basis as a teen and we’re lucky to have him, just as he’s lucky to be the understudy to a great ruck man so the pressure is very much off him. This just underscores his own great potential. It doesn’t in any way diminish others like Bradtke who will need a lot of development time if he’s going to make it at all. Similarly, Mac Andrew will take time as well, not just to learn the skills of ruck work but to add the around 30kgs he would need to compete with the big boys. 

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7 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

There’s one category of footballer that I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss and that’s the ruck. Even allowing for the fact that he was handicapped by 3 ACL’s, our skipper was well beyond the age of 21 when he established himself in that position.  

Max was also handicapped by a dumb FD who insisted on playing Spencer ahead of him in the ruck at Casey and thought they could make Max into a key forward.

Whenever Max got a clear run in the ruck at Casey he showed he had the goods back then.

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13 minutes ago, rjay said:

Max was also handicapped by a dumb FD who insisted on playing Spencer ahead of him in the ruck at Casey and thought they could make Max into a key forward.

Whenever Max got a clear run in the ruck at Casey he showed he had the goods back then.

Not sure that “handicapped” is the right word. You need to remember that in those days our #1 ruckman was Mark Jamar who made All-Australian in 2010 and Spencer and Gawn had to fight it out as the understudies. That’s how it should be at a football club. You should be given time to develop and grow. With big men, it’s only the very exceptional who make it at a very young age. Also, we shouldn’t confuse getting an odd game here and there with “making it”. 

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6 minutes ago, Elwood 3184 said:

Not sure that “handicapped” is the right word. You need to remember that in those days our #1 ruckman was Mark Jamar who made All-Australian in 2010 and Spencer and Gawn had to fight it out as the understudies. That’s how it should be at a football club. You should be given time to develop and grow. With big men, it’s only the very exceptional who make it at a very young age. Also, we shouldn’t confuse getting an odd game here and there with “making it”. 

Gawn was streets ahead of Spencer as a ruckman and should have had development put into him at Casey, instead he was played more as a forward and only had real game time in the ruck when Spencer was injured.

I remember watching Gawn towel up Hudson, a good experienced senior ruckman when he had the opportunity v the doggies 2's team at the time. It would have been Gawn's first season.

Whilst ruckmen take time to develop, you can see the special ones early on.

Max just needed to want to do it and thankfully for us the penny dropped and the opportunity came under Roos.

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On 4/18/2021 at 6:23 PM, dworship said:

Anyone know where I can watch the Casey replay?

download the 7plus app and make an account and you can watch the whole game.  And its free with surprisingly few ads

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2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Professor Wikipedia on Dean Cox

“The Eagles then put him on their senior list and he made his AFL debut in 2001. Initially he showed few signs of his potential at that level. However, he was persisted with ...

“He came of age during the 2005 season ...”

Cox turned 24 during the 2005 season when “he came of age” but let’s not get in the way of a good fact. 

Max also had his coming of age season at the same age. 

Luke Jackson is one of the rare breed who has been able to spend time in the ruck on a consistent basis as a teen and we’re lucky to have him, just as he’s lucky to be the understudy to a great ruck man so the pressure is very much off him. This just underscores his own great potential. It doesn’t in any way diminish others like Bradtke who will need a lot of development time if he’s going to make it at all. Similarly, Mac Andrew will take time as well, not just to learn the skills of ruck work but to add the around 30kgs he would need to compete with the big boys. 

You're completely missing my point.

I stated that at 19 years of age both Cox and Gawn had started playing AFL games because they'd already shown AFL traits to be considered AFL selection. Bradke is 21 next month and shown next to nothing that he has some AFL ability. At best he's a suburban standard player. Watching him closely on the weekend just proves my point. I understand the point that ruckman do take time and when you watch them at VFL level you want to see glimpses and walk away thinking that of given opportunity they can certainly make it. I had that with Gawn,  Stefan Martin and Darren Jolly when he was starting out. They all had strengths that stood out and could certainly tell that it would translate into AFL footy if an opportunity was there. I don't see that at all with Bradtke. 

My point also is that Bradke has had 3 years on the list now and he's barely put on any weight nor has he improved as a player. At this stage of his development he should be playing the number 1 ruck role down at Casey instead of Daw. But obviously his form hasn't been strong enough to take that next step.

Unless Bradke shows considerable improvement I can't see how he remains on the list.

 

Edited by dazzledavey36
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Three years on the list =

Year 1 at Casey with Bayden Preuss occupying the ruck position for most of the season.

Year 2 in a hub with zero matches other than some Mickey Mouse make up games.

Year 3 (one round played)

You call that 3 years?

And what statistical information due you bring to the table about the changes in his playing weight over that time?

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Sunday was my first look at Bradke and I think he’s coming on fine. Thought he showed enough to warrant a spot, plus he has the frame to put on strength as he matures.

 Ideally, he’s fully developed in a couple of years so can step up into Max’s spot. 

Edited by PaulRB
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8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

It's glaring that on face value his physical development is still where it was when he was first picked up. On the weekend he was completely out bodied and pushed under the ball far too easily. I can tell you right now that as a current qualified PT you can still put on size and build your core up at the same time. Just like Luke Jackson did over the summer. I watched him at times out body McEvoy around the ruck contests on the weekend and it was fantastic to watch. Bradke is light years away at competing at AFL level.

Not sure why you named Martin and Jamar? They were both physically and naturally big boys by the age of 21. Jamar had played 20 games and Martin had debut at that age and was playing CHB. At one stage he played on Matthew Lloyd in his first year. There are no comparisons there.

Jackson is a special athlete. He walked in to the club with a great tank and a decent build for his body, plus a lot of talent. Comparing Bradtke to him is like comparing Weideman to Hogan or James Jordon to Clarry. 

Martin was drafted at 21, played full back at 22 in an awful team. Didn’t breakthrough until 25 in 2011. Jamar played 22 games at age 22 but averaged 4.4 touches, he did little more than be big and tall, and that didn’t change until well in to his 20’s. They might’ve been big boys but they were miles off starting caliber AFL rucks. 

Anyway, it’s not that I have huge hopes it’s just we should give him the year to see if he can impact VFL games. If he can show something at VFL level this year he’s on track.

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3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You're completely missing my point.

I stated that at 19 years of age both Cox and Gawn had started playing AFL games because they'd already shown AFL traits to be considered AFL selection. Bradke is 21 next month and shown next to nothing that he has some AFL ability. At best he's a suburban standard player. Watching him closely on the weekend just proves my point. I understand the point that ruckman do take time and when you watch them at VFL level you want to see glimpses and walk away thinking that of given opportunity they can certainly make it. I had that with Gawn,  Stefan Martin and Darren Jolly when he was starting out. They all had strengths that stood out and could certainly tell that it would translate into AFL footy if an opportunity was there. I don't see that at all with Bradtke. 

My point also is that Bradke has had 3 years on the list now and he's barely put on any weight nor has he improved as a player. At this stage of his development he should be playing the number 1 ruck role down at Casey instead of Daw. But obviously his form hasn't been strong enough to take that next step.

Unless Bradke shows considerable improvement I can't see how he remains on the list.

 

The point here is that, unlike the others you cite, Bradtke is a Category B rookie who we were able to recruit because he had not played football for several years. He came from a basketball background and, at the time of his recruitment, it was acknowledged that he was a player who would require substantial development over a number of years. Given the closure of the VFL due to Covid19, he's actually one game into his second season. Let's see where he's at after he plays another dozen games at that level.

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2 hours ago, Elwood 3184 said:

Three years on the list =

Year 1 at Casey with Bayden Preuss occupying the ruck position for most of the season.

Year 2 in a hub with zero matches other than some Mickey Mouse make up games.

Year 3 (one round played)

You call that 3 years?

And what statistical information due you bring to the table about the changes in his playing weight over that time?

 

6 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

The point here is that, unlike the others you cite, Bradtke is a Category B rookie who we were able to recruit because he had not played football for several years. He came from a basketball background and, at the time of his recruitment, it was acknowledged that he was a player who would require substantial development over a number of years. Given the closure of the VFL due to Covid19, he's actually one game into his second season. Let's see where he's at after he plays another dozen games at that level.

Let's recommence this discussion when the season ends with list changes occurring. I would like to think I have an okay eye for talent when I see one, (have got some wrong over the journey) but I see absolutely nothing to suggest he'll make it.

Just remember one thing.. Gawn, Jackson, Weideman, Ben Brown, Daw and Tom McDonald. Good luck to him trying get ahead of these guys in the next couple of years.

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2 hours ago, kieranbj said:

Anyone have any information on why Bailey Laurie didn't play on the weekend?

In latest on MFC website - Laurie out for 6-8 weeks after injury at training (fractured eye socket).  

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I've been watching Bradtke quite closely and have reported more than once, on his performance and the things I like about his game. They are (still) his mobility, his kicking ability, cleanness (so that's a word?) below his knees and general ball handling (good dish off, can take a grab etc). I've stated each time that it was too early to judge his ruck ability as he was getting rag-dolled. Nothing's changed.

Watching him v Box Hill, his tentativeness or lack of aggression was really disappointing. He's still getting rag-dolled at hit-outs and needs to work out when to body or jump over his opponent. Having said that, the commentators said that it was only his 11th game of VFL so we should all cut him some slack. He definitely needs to stack on some weight and if we're able to grab Mac Andrew, he might not get the development time he needs.

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  • Whispering_Jack changed the title to CASEY DEMONS: Rd 01 vs Box Hill Hawks
On 4/20/2021 at 8:22 AM, Elwood 3184 said:

Three years on the list =

Year 1 at Casey with Bayden Preuss occupying the ruck position for most of the season.

Year 2 in a hub with zero matches other than some Mickey Mouse make up games.

Year 3 (one round played)

You call that 3 years?

And what statistical information due you bring to the table about the changes in his playing weight over that time?

You are correct - he has effectively been on the list 1 year.  I reckon he needs to show something by the end of the year to get renewed.

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