Jump to content

  • Podcast:     

  • Podcast:     

Clayton Oliver Contract negotiations



Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

As flag favourites we’re in a good position to keep our stars. These guys want success and they’ll get that here

Mate who said we're flag favourites? I haven't seen any articles or media personality say we're flag favourites...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 375
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Geez, there are some pretty ordinary takes in this thread. Oliver is an absolute must keep.

Hmmm, Carlton you say?  

35 touches at 80% and 7 clearances and Melbourne supporters still think he had just an average game.  Name one other player on our list who would have these post game stats and not be considered to

13 hours ago, A F said:

I'd say name your price, but if you go too high, just know you may compromise list management decisions in the future and the club's ability to improve.

If he'd sign a long term deal, I'd comfortably give him 10 x $1 mill a year. He's incredibly durable and IMV will have a long future (playing well past 30) in the game.

No player should receive 10 years. It’s madness. He's durable now but he goes in hard, no guarantee he won't get a serious injury or become injury prone in a few years time.

I would offer 3 years on $1m per year. He’s worth that level of salary.

Contracts are just pieces of paper. They don’t compel people to give their all or put their heart and soul into their job.

Clayton wants to play for a team that matches his ambition and desire for success. The best and only retention strategy is to win games of footy and play finals. This club needs to show him that we offer the best environment for him to realise his ambitions. If that happens, the contract will take care of itself (and we won;t need to pay over the odds either). We've made a positive start to the season but it must continue otherwise no guarantee he'll hang around imv.

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

salary-cap-score

Salary cap space after 2021

  • Not sure our 'lesser-lights' and older players, whose contracts expire this year would be on big coin so I don't see much wriggle room there.

 

Yep, A lot of names here coming OOC, some seem surplus to requirements - uncertain if theyd be on big coin but you'd need to replace them for numbers.

Main List: Baker/Bedford/Hore/Jetta/Jones/Lochart/Hibbered/ANB/Oliver/Salem/J Smith/Vandenberg/Weideman

Rookies: M Brown/K Chandler/M Daw/J Jordon/A Nietschke/D Smith/A Bradke.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I think North are a big concern. Can offer a ridiculous can't refuse contract and will most likely have first pick in the PSD to give them leverage in trade negotiations. Would have to be a hell of an offer though.

If you were Oliver would you  rather play at the Dees with a solid chance of playing finals and a GF over the life of your contract. Or play with the bottom side who gets beaten 90% of the time for 15% more money? Easy choice for me. 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I think North are a big concern. Can offer a ridiculous can't refuse contract and will most likely have first pick in the PSD to give them leverage in trade negotiations. Would have to be a hell of an offer though.

If he leaves, it ain't to North. They're going to be overpaying players of the Chris Dawes ilk like we did for a while whilst they build their list. It took us years before we landed a big fish and that was only once we became decent. Money alone won't get people to North. It would be a very poor career choice for a player like Oliver to even contemplate North as they are today.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

i'd be trying to get a 5 (6?) year contract (with maybe extension options*)

3 is too little

7-10 is too risky

* based on performance metrics, medical test and a formula for increase in $$s

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Why?

Inconsistent, poor kick, only contests centre square (his favoured position) if someone is injured and has struggled when being played on a wing etc. We cant afford to be carrying him into 2022 on 625-650k given these issues.

 

add to that we are going to need to find more cap space for Clarry (prob 150k more) and some for Salem and realistically the club would prefer to front load however much possible on Olivers contract to make it easier to accomodate Petraccas next contract the following year.

 

Edited by Travis Boots
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i'd be trying to get a 5 (6?) year contract (with maybe extension options*)

3 is too little

7-10 is too risky

* based on performance metrics, medical test and a formula for increase in $$s

If he re-signs it would likely be for 2 years to take him up to FA

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, praha said:

If he leaves, it ain't to North. They're going to be overpaying players of the Chris Dawes ilk like we did for a while whilst they build their list. It took us years before we landed a big fish and that was only once we became decent. Money alone won't get people to North. It would be a very poor career choice for a player like Oliver to even contemplate North as they are today.

agreed

chris dawes = aiden corr, in this example

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If he re-signs it would likely be for 2 years to take him up to FA

anyone who is expecting anything other than this is wrong.

lets the player assess where the club goes and also sets themselves up for massive pay day based on other clubs offers we match or other offers they take. 

afl exchange podcast made a great point today that all clubs should look to backload all players contracts in their FA year in order for them to be RFA like gws did with corr who annually  across his career is clearly not in their top 10% of earners but he was last year in order for them to receive compensation on the chance he leaves. going off the 2021 contracts forum it appears we've done the same with hunt somehow which must mean he's earning peanuts this year coz if that man is getting any more than about 500k all up over these two years we better take a long hard look at ourselves

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If he re-signs it would likely be for 2 years to take him up to FA

but that's defeatist

our objective should be to lock him in long term and past fa

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

No player should receive 10 years. It’s madness. He's durable now but he goes in hard, no guarantee he won't get a serious injury or become injury prone in a few years time.

I would offer 3 years on $1m per year. He’s worth that level of salary.

Contracts are just pieces of paper. They don’t compel people to give their all or put their heart and soul into their job.

Clayton wants to play for a team that matches his ambition and desire for success. The best and only retention strategy is to win games of footy and play finals. This club needs to show him that we offer the best environment for him to realise his ambitions. If that happens, the contract will take care of itself (and we won;t need to pay over the odds either). We've made a positive start to the season but it must continue otherwise no guarantee he'll hang around imv.

Positive is that not many clubs can afford $1 mill a year in their salary. caps and the ones that can are potentially further from success than us https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/salary-cap-score-the-afl-clubs-that-do-and-don-t-have-room-20210327-p57em2.html

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

salary-cap-score

Salary cap space after 2021

  • HAVES (with room): Essendon, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Adelaide, Port Adelaide.
  • HAVE-NOTS: Richmond, West Coast, Collingwood, Melbourne, Fremantle, Geelong, Gold Coast, Greater Western Sydney.
  • SOME WRIGGLE ROOM: Carlton, Western Bulldogs, Brisbane Lions.
  • UNCLEAR: St Kilda, Sydney

Player payments, including ASAs, are $13,165,950 in 2021, a cut of 9 per cent due to the pandemic. Player payments for 2022 are slated to be $14,769,322 if there are no cuts. All subject to the current contracts and without factoring in recruiting at season’s end or re-negotiations.

 

We have some expensive traded-in players with 2-4 years to go on their contracts.  Add the sal cap reductions and the AFL advice to clubs to transfer the decrease from the near term to later years ie back end the contracts.  Not a fan of too many back-ended contracts as it is easy to get into strife - see Collingwood circa 2020. 

So our sal cap will be tight for a few years to come. 

Not sue our 'lesser-lights' and older players whose contracts expire this year would be on big coin.

, means the next few years will be very tight as well. 

So I can see why negotiations with Oliver will take time (ditto with Salem).

Thanks for that Lucifer, 

What are ASA’S?

My take on our contract situation.

Re big coin, maybe not so much for Jones and Jetta but I think Hibberd this year and Melksham and TMac next year would free up some money. 
In 2022 we have 13 players coming off contract which looks like a lot but broken down, Petracca obviously is the big one then there’s players like Brayshaw and Fritsch then Jackson then it tapers right off. For the years 2023 - 2025 we have 10 players currently signed up for various lengths of time, Pickett and Rivers who wouldn’t be on much at the moment, Gawn and Lever who recently extended their contracts on what I can only assume would be less than their previous contracts (in which they would have cleaned up). May, Tomlinson (I hope we didn’t pay too much for him) Langdon and Brown would tie up a bit between them you would think, Viney and Harmes are the interesting ones, long deals but for how much?

The club would of been aware of these pending deals for Oliver and Petracca for some time, whilst things may be tight I believe the club has all their ducks in a row.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Travis Boots said:

Inconsistent, poor kick, only contests centre square (his favoured position) if someone is injured and has struggled when being played on a wing etc. We cant afford to be carrying him into 2022 on 625-650k given these issues.

 

add to that we are going to need to find more cap space for Clarry (prob 150k more) and some for Salem and realistically the club would prefer to front load however much possible on Olivers contract to make it easier to accomodate Petraccas next contract the following year.

 

Where is this figure from? If that’s anywhere near close to the mark that’s a concern.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Where is this figure from? If that’s anywhere near close to the mark that’s a concern.

It was in The Australian (disclaimer: i would prefer a sewing needle through the eye of my [censored] than subscribe or buy that joke of a paper) Last June or July. Top 100 earners in the AFL. For some reason i was able to access it but now its behind the paywall for me again

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_MRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fafl-rich-100-who-are-the-afls-highestearning-stars-see-the-players-ranked-51100%2Fnews-story%2Fd6052138cb2be56ce41f2059386ef132&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Facepalm 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly dont think money is the driver here, he wants to have success

if we are looking good midway through, we should see some action, however if the wheels fall off, I can see him looking elsewhere

The positive  in this potential situation is he isnt going to North, Adelaide etc at the bottom, so if he decides to go elsewhere, we should be rightly compensated in a trade.

Obviously we need him at the club to win a flag, but the balls in his court to see we have a bright future

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Turner said:

anyone who is expecting anything other than this is wrong.

lets the player assess where the club goes and also sets themselves up for massive pay day based on other clubs offers we match or other offers they take. 

afl exchange podcast made a great point today that all clubs should look to backload all players contracts in their FA year in order for them to be RFA like gws did with corr who annually  across his career is clearly not in their top 10% of earners but he was last year in order for them to receive compensation on the chance he leaves. going off the 2021 contracts forum it appears we've done the same with hunt somehow which must mean he's earning peanuts this year coz if that man is getting any more than about 500k all up over these two years we better take a long hard look at ourselves

The opposite to that is when we front-loaded Frawley's contract which gave us no option to match as we found out it was based on the final year's salary, not the average salary over the length of the contract.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, daisycutter said:

but that's defeatist

our objective should be to lock him in long term and past fa

It's realistic, every single player manager will be telling their clients to only sign up until their FA. It doesn't mean he's going to leave at that point it just gives him better leverage to get more money.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Thanks for that Lucifer, 

What are ASA’S?

My take on our contract situation.

Re big coin, maybe not so much for Jones and Jetta but I think Hibberd this year and Melksham and TMac next year would free up some money. 
In 2022 we have 13 players coming off contract which looks like a lot but broken down, Petracca obviously is the big one then there’s players like Brayshaw and Fritsch then Jackson then it tapers right off. For the years 2023 - 2025 we have 10 players currently signed up for various lengths of time, Pickett and Rivers who wouldn’t be on much at the moment, Gawn and Lever who recently extended their contracts on what I can only assume would be less than their previous contracts (in which they would have cleaned up). May, Tomlinson (I hope we didn’t pay too much for him) Langdon and Brown would tie up a bit between them you would think, Viney and Harmes are the interesting ones, long deals but for how much?

The club would of been aware of these pending deals for Oliver and Petracca for some time, whilst things may be tight I believe the club has all their ducks in a row.
 

ASA's are Additional Services Agreements I think, the old 3rd party deals. These now come under the cap as a separate item.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Turner said:

anyone who is expecting anything other than this is wrong.

lets the player assess where the club goes and also sets themselves up for massive pay day based on other clubs offers we match or other offers they take. 

afl exchange podcast made a great point today that all clubs should look to backload all players contracts in their FA year in order for them to be RFA like gws did with corr who annually  across his career is clearly not in their top 10% of earners but he was last year in order for them to receive compensation on the chance he leaves. going off the 2021 contracts forum it appears we've done the same with hunt somehow which must mean he's earning peanuts this year coz if that man is getting any more than about 500k all up over these two years we better take a long hard look at ourselves

Huh?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    HOT PIES FREEZE DEES by George on the Outer

    In the Annual Big Freeze game in support of Neale Daniher's fight against MND, it was Collingwood who froze the ambitions of the Demons, and it now challenges them to thaw out their prospects in the second half of the season. Even though Melbourne opened the scoring account, it was quickly countered by Collingwood, as the Demons appeared flat. And even though they held a minor lead at the first break, it was only through a couple of fortunate efforts, but nothing more.  All around

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    FROZEN by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne supporters are an unusual lot. Their lived experiences over years of witnessing their team’s humiliation at the hands of the competition’s bullies have left them suspended in a Bizarro World beset by a cognitive distortion know as 'mental filtering'. This is a phenomenon that occurs when people focus exclusively and blindly on long held belief systems. They refuse to accept that conditions have changed so when the evidence is present before their very own eyes, their minds are frozen.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 4

    CHANGES: 2021 MID SEASON by The Oracle 

    Since the end of the 2020 free agency, trade and draft period, AFL clubs have had two further bites of the cherry to top up their lists — the supplemental selection period (SSP) and the 2021 mid-season rookie draft (MSD). The main idea behind both was to enable the fulfillment of immediate needs as a result of injuries or unexpected retirements but this year, we have seen the added dimension of straight out recruitment for the future rather than for now. As a consequence, a number of ready

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    LION TAMERS by George On The Outer

    In an enthralling game between two top four sides, it was the Demons who tamed the Lions, and propelled themselves into the position of premiership favourite even though the season is barely past the halfway mark. This is because Melbourne keeps on beating those teams around them who might provide a challenge. Not only that, it keeps winning with emphatic displays of resilience and toughness that have not been seen in a Demons side for many, many years. Challenged in the first half of

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    DUELING BANJOS by Whispering Jack

    In the classic Australian poem, A B “Banjo” Paterson sought the answer by letter to a question concerning the whereabouts of a drover named “Clancy”. The response from Clancy’s shearing mate was written with a thumb-nail dipped in tar: “Clancy’s gone to Queensland droving, and we don’t know where he are.” Most of us would have felt a little bit that way earlier in the week wondering about the possible whereabouts of the Melbourne team for this week’s encounter against Brisbane. Were th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    DOGGED DEEFENCE by George on the Outer

    “No-one let the Dogs out” was the Demons response for the (former) top side.  The Melbourne defence, capably lead by Steven May and Jake Lever simply suffocated any hopes that the Western Bulldogs might have had about leading the competition at the mid-way point. Instead, it is the Demons who now sit at the top of the ladder, again a game clear, while their supporters are starting to believe that this side is the real deal.  Pity is that those same supporters couldn’t watch their team demol

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    LOOK AWAY DEMON FANS by The Oracle

    Last week I predicted a comfortable Melbourne victory for its game against Adelaide. “Something in the order of 61 points”, I opined. Well, after the game, I checked the wording of my preview very carefully from all angles and I have now concluded that I have to issue an apology to Demon fans. I got it wrong. I’m not bitter and twisted about my error in failing to predict the coaching errors, defensive mistakes, lack of forward pressure and, of course, the complete failure of those officiat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    CALM BEFORE THE CALM by KC from Casey

    The Casey Demons overcame a sluggish first half to run over the Sydney Swans in the second to record an emphatic 40 point victory, maintaining their undefeated record and retaining top spot on the VFL ladder. The game originally listed as part of the Round 4 fixture but delayed due to a Covid19 scare in Sydney and the scrappy way in which the teams approached the contest suggested that the players were still in delay mode. This applied in particular to most of the 12 AFL listed Casey player

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    NOTHING TO CROW ABOUT by George On The Outer

    Melbourne’s nine game winning streak  came to an end in Adelaide with a one point loss to the Crows. Losing to a team that had only won three games for the season, having lost five in a row was certainly nothing to crow about.  All around the ground players collectively put in their poorest performance for the year.  The loss of Christian Salem before the match was critical, as his replacement Nev Jetta is a mere shadow the player he once was. The mind is still willing, but the body no

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    CRYING OVER SPILT MILK by The Oracle

    It had to happen sooner or later. Melbourne has been riding high through the season to date and, with the exception of a small bunch of nuff nuffs who are never satisfied with anything, the club has attracted more positive vibes from the community in these nine weeks than it did in the past decade. So it came as no surprise to see some low grade stirring of the sort which only the media could come up with at a time like this. The on line site Zero Hanger came up with an article that opined,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    CATNIPPED by KC from Casey

    After winning big away from home across the first three rounds of the new look VFL competition, the Casey Demons were forced to dig deep against Geelong VFL at Casey Fields on Saturday. The traditional AFL based teams were evenly matched, fielding ten listed players apiece and this was reflected in the evenness of the game and the final margin which saw the home side leading by a solitary point on the final siren. Casey suffered an early blow when Jake Bowey came off with what ap

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    BLUES IN THE RED by George On The Outer

    While the Demons’ undefeated run continues unabated now at 9-0 their emphatic 26 point victory pushed the Blues to their sixth loss for the season and deeper into the red for the year. While Melbourne opened proceedings with an early goal, the Blues responded with the next two to grab an early lead.  However, as has happened in so many games this year, the Demons fought back to lead by just over a goal come the first break. This narrow lead was part of a streak either side of quarter t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports


×
×
  • Create New...