Clayton Oliver Contract negotiations

[praha 10,270]

8 hours ago, BW511 said:

301 Metres Gained over that 35 touches, I think the disposal efficiency is a little misleading when you're averaging less than 10m per touch.

 

 

Brett Moloney led the league in metres gained at one point. I get that it's a stat that can be highly influential and impactful but all stats can be manipulated for or against a specific agenda. I just did it with Boomer above. If his DE is high wouldn't that mean his first touch is leading to a chain and thus more likelihood of controlling the play as a team? 

[Gawndy the Great 7,313]

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Christ supporters are silly. 

Oliver is obviously a special player. Hard, unbelievable at getting his hands on the ball at a contest, evasive, generally a really good kick to advantage. 

But there is absolutely no question that a large number of his handballs are simply not only not damaging, but put his team mate under immediate pressure. It doesn't matter if he goes at 80% efficiency if his handball is straight to a team mate under heat. 

How do supporter not see that? It's part of why there's so much commentary surrounding his use. 

If he gets that out of his game and looks to players like Pendles and the bont as far as releasing to the right team mate, then he could be the best midfielder in the comp. 

Too often Oliver is going at a million miles in his mind and gives a completely unnecessary handball too close to a team mate under pressure. 

I would rather Oliver get caught holding the ball looking for a better option than give it to early to the wrong option. 

He is the kind of player who has the ability to hold onto the pill longer and off-load to a team mate in a better position, preferably one outside the contest. 

Go back and look at how many times our players gave unnecessary handballs to a team mate who was less than a metre from them. It's the fault of the players calling for it as well as the giver. 

Can't do that against the saints. 

I'd have to agree on this. He has had a stellar 100 first games and has possessions through the roof every game. But its what he does with the footy and the decisions that he makes that prevent him from being a genuine A plus footballer.

Would be gutted if he left, but he is replaceable - maybe not on certain traits and strengths but as a 'role' in 'the system'. 

[dworship 3,342]

2 hours ago, CYB said:

I'd have to agree on this. He has had a stellar 100 first games and has possessions through the roof every game. But its what he does with the footy and the decisions that he makes that prevent him from being a genuine A plus footballer.

Would be gutted if he left, but he is replaceable - maybe not on certain traits and strengths but as a 'role' in 'the system'. 

And right there is the problem with this entire thread. The posters who are pointing out his negatives are basically saying his card has been stamped and he won't get past his limitations. I want to see him try in the next 100 games in Red and Blue. 

[picket fence 15,097]

6 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Christ supporters are silly. 

Oliver is obviously a special player. Hard, unbelievable at getting his hands on the ball at a contest, evasive, generally a really good kick to advantage. 

But there is absolutely no question that a large number of his handballs are simply not only not damaging, but put his team mate under immediate pressure. It doesn't matter if he goes at 80% efficiency if his handball is straight to a team mate under heat. 

How do supporter not see that? It's part of why there's so much commentary surrounding his use. 

If he gets that out of his game and looks to players like Pendles and the bont as far as releasing to the right team mate, then he could be the best midfielder in the comp. 

Too often Oliver is going at a million miles in his mind and gives a completely unnecessary handball too close to a team mate under pressure. 

I would rather Oliver get caught holding the ball looking for a better option than give it to early to the wrong option. 

He is the kind of player who has the ability to hold onto the pill longer and off-load to a team mate in a better position, preferably one outside the contest. 

Go back and look at how many times our players gave unnecessary handballs to a team mate who was less than a metre from them. It's the fault of the players calling for it as well as the giver. 

Can't do that against the saints. 

Gawwd Jimmy did you count the number of times his "Deft"handballs opened up the game and resulted in goals??

Cmon Man, he is  just a "Magic"player!!

[picket fence 15,097]

On 3/23/2021 at 5:02 PM, CYB said:

I'd have to agree on this. He has had a stellar 100 first games and has possessions through the roof every game. But its what he does with the footy and the decisions that he makes that prevent him from being a genuine A plus footballer.

Would be gutted if he left, but he is replaceable - maybe not on certain traits and strengths but as a 'role' in 'the system'. 

Sorry his first two games have been "STELLAR" IRREPLACEABLE by any measure

850 -900 per season over 5 would seem to be right!!

[spirit of norm smith 12,886]

5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Sorry his first two games have been "STELLAR" IRREPLACEABLE by any measure

850 -900 per season over 5 would seem to be right!!

He’s an absolute star.  If he could just get his disposal efficiency up, he’d be equal to Dusty Martin.  

5 year deal. $4mil. $800k a year.  That’s fair.  Anything more is probably stretching the friendship.  

[Binmans PA 25,976]

I'd say name your price, but if you go too high, just know you may compromise list management decisions in the future and the club's ability to improve.

If he'd sign a long term deal, I'd comfortably give him 10 x $1 mill a year. He's incredibly durable and IMV will have a long future (playing well past 30) in the game.

[Stein9193 129]

On 3/23/2021 at 8:26 AM, dworship said:

And right there is the problem with this entire thread. The posters who are pointing out his negatives are basically saying his card has been stamped and he won't get past his limitations. I want to see him try in the next 100 games in Red and Blue. 

don't blame others for the players mistakes

[WA Demon Boy 966]

Happy to offer large money to him on a shorter contract. 

 

[dworship 3,342]

4 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

don't blame others for the players mistakes

Is it ok to blame you for being ..... sorry struggling here... um don't want to get banned. Really unsure here, is it inappropriate to post something regarding IQ being less than average? Seriously, I don't want to fall into the Scumo trap.

[deanox 8,562]

On 3/23/2021 at 4:49 PM, praha said:

Brett Moloney led the league in metres gained at one point. I get that it's a stat that can be highly influential and impactful but all stats can be manipulated for or against a specific agenda. I just did it with Boomer above. If his DE is high wouldn't that mean his first touch is leading to a chain and thus more likelihood of controlling the play as a team? 

 

On 3/23/2021 at 5:02 PM, CYB said:

I'd have to agree on this. He has had a stellar 100 first games and has possessions through the roof every game. But its what he does with the footy and the decisions that he makes that prevent him from being a genuine A plus footballer.

Would be gutted if he left, but he is replaceable - maybe not on certain traits and strengths but as a 'role' in 'the system'. 

I know it's only 2 games in this year but after those 2 games he has 76 disposals (3rd in the league) and he is 60th in the comp in meters gained (4th for Melbourne), so that is not an unreasonable ratio. He is leading the comp in contested possessions (36 vs next best of 30), and also has the most ground ball gets in the competition (22), two stats which why he has such a high handball top kick ratio and also lower meter gained than some others. 

His disposal efficiency this year is 77.8% and his KE is 74%, so his kicking doesn't seem any worse than handballing.

 

For comparison, Jack Mccrae who has 76 disposals this year has 881 m gained, DE 80% KE 63%, 20 ground ball gets. Oliver's performance is elite, there is no two ways about it.

 

[rjay 23,887]

Poor old Clayton...not doing any damage with his possessions say some on here.

The coaches obviously don't agree...he picked up 9 votes for Saturday's game & sits 3rd on the leaderboard, pretty average player I think not.

The best, most consistent pure mid in the game at the moment.

LEADERBOARD

19 Dustin Martin RICH
18 Taylor Walker ADEL
16 Darcy Moore COLL
16 Clayton Oliver MEL

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by rjay

[bush demon 1,881]

Melbourne is one of the listed clubs whose salary cup is tight. So an Essendon or a Hawthorn could knock on his door with a mega-offer. So we have to basically have  high finish to keep him, IMO.

[deanox 8,562]

When it comes to contract we should give him the length he wants, and the salary that puts him top 3 at the club. Gawn as captain and games no. 1 ruckman, and Petracca as a the explosive forward/mid are both up there.

The next tier down would have May, Lever, Brown, Viney, and maybe Brayshaw (TMac and Brayshaw based when they signed the contract).

Agree with bush demon that it mgiht be a bit tight at the top, so we may not be able to match the big splash to keep him, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is why we've resigned Lever and Gawn now as part of a restructuring of the salary to bump the offer.

[dazzledavey36 48,704]

Give him what he wants.

[hemingway 7,589]

48 minutes ago, A F said:

I'd say name your price, but if you go too high, just know you may compromise list management decisions in the future and the club's ability to improve.

If he'd sign a long term deal, I'd comfortably give him 10 x $1 mill a year. He's incredibly durable and IMV will have a long future (playing well past 30) in the game.

Usually a voice of reason Adam. 

However, “name your price” is not managing your total player payments and salary cap in a prudent way. It’s a recipe for financial and team management problems. Comfortable with I mill a year over 10 years! Not very prudent when the club is on a financial knife edge and uncertainty over future revenues. Incredibly durable.  This is a guy who has already had a number of shoulder problems requiring surgery. The wear and tear on players bodies is a significant issue. Frankly, it would be very unlikely that the club would get another 10 years out of him. 

I’m an Oliver fan but not at any price. 

[whatwhat say what 18,881]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Give him what he wants.

what if he wants is to be traded to carlton? ?

i remain confident he'll stay

Edited March 29, 2021 by whatwhat say what

[picket fence 15,097]

6 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

what if he wants is to be traded to carlton? ?

i remain confident he'll stay

So are u suggesting that the machinations and possible rumours might already have played out in a significant Carltank offer!!?? On the table??

[whatwhat say what 18,881]

Just now, picket fence said:

So are u suggesting that the machinations and possible rumours might already have played out in a significant Carltank offer!!?? On the table??

nah, just fuelling the mfcss

[Neil Crompton 4,716]

49 minutes ago, dworship said:

Is it ok to blame you for being ..... sorry struggling here... um don't want to get banned. Really unsure here, is it inappropriate to post something regarding IQ being less than average? Seriously, I don't want to fall into the Scumo trap.

is it the merlot again tonight your dworship?

[Willmoy1947 3,769]

His bloody career will be a lot less if he has to carry Carlton and TWSNBN..

[dworship 3,342]

3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

is it the merlot again tonight your dworship?

Nope, that's me trying to be nice .... ok the Missus did surprise me with a bottle while I watched the game for a third time.

Thanks for the question, I do worry about my liver and yes it can get a bit shizen.

[Binmans PA 25,976]

3 hours ago, hemingway said:

Usually a voice of reason Adam. 

However, “name your price” is not managing your total player payments and salary cap in a prudent way. It’s a recipe for financial and team management problems. Comfortable with I mill a year over 10 years! Not very prudent when the club is on a financial knife edge and uncertainty over future revenues. Incredibly durable.  This is a guy who has already had a number of shoulder problems requiring surgery. The wear and tear on players bodies is a significant issue. Frankly, it would be very unlikely that the club would get another 10 years out of him. 

I’m an Oliver fan but not at any price. 

Oliver is a rare 'at any price' player IMO. I don't think he's missed a game since his second season. He has shoulder recos every season, but it doesn't impact on his ball winning ability at all. He's a natural. We'll agree to disagree mate.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

8 hours ago, bush demon said:

Melbourne is one of the listed clubs whose salary cup is tight. So an Essendon or a Hawthorn could knock on his door with a mega-offer. So we have to basically have  high finish to keep him, IMO.

But he would be playing for Essendon or Hawthorn.

Josh Dunkley must be thanking his lucky stars that a trade with Essendon couldn’t be reached.

Sure, he isn’t getting paid as much now but the extra money that comes from playing with a successful team will more than make up for it.

[Roost it far 6,022]

$6 mill for 6 years