Jump to content

  • Podcast:      

  • Podcast:      

POSTGAME: Rd 01 vs Fremantle



Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Said similar before myself.  Max wins his tap then does nothing to help the midfielders clear the congestion.  He is a liability almost when the ball hits the ground.   He needs to start throwing his weight around, he is a huge unit but Spargo plays with more tenacity around the contests.  Max needs to start playing with lot more aggression, clearing paths for our onballers by blocks/screens or just throwing himself at a contest and make things happen.

Complaining to the umpires shows the weak mindset he actually has during games.   

Seeing him being bullied by comparative midgets says a lot about us.  He is our Captain and if he does not lead by example and fly the flag occasionally, who will?  

Love Max as a "character" and apparently he trains like a dedicated footballer should, but it is time to show a hardened edge to his game to not make him so easy to play against.

I don't think Max gets angry though, or he never shows it by his actions.

Every match is a virtual war, he needs to start playing accordingly.  ATM a player like Mumford would do a lot more for our esteemed midfield.  

FFS get angry and SHOW it Max!

I love Max but he gets bullied every game and just sooks. Needs to dish some out

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Our game absolutely still relies on us being on top in clearance and contest. It has to, given the type of players Goodwin puts in and around the ball. 

I think it's clear as day our game style against Freo was not by design.

With respect, I disagree with both of these points.

We have changed the way we play and we no longer prioritse winning clearances the way we did under Roos or in Goodies first three seasons as coach. Which by the by, contradicts the Goody doesn't change narrative many on DL adhere to. 

Again i'm not saying clearances are not important to us, but there a has been a clear tactical shift in regard to the relative importance of clearances - a shift that gathered pace in the second half of last season

  • In 2018 we were 4th in clearance differential with +2.4  (the tigers were last, with -5.6)
  • In 2019 we were 3rd in clearance differential with +3  (the tigers were 16th, with -4.6, the eagles, who won the flag, were 7th with +0.3)
  • In 2020 we were 6th in clearance differential with +1.4  (the tigers were 16th, with -3.8, the team they beat in the Grand Final, the lions was 9th at +1.1)

Added to the above the Hawks under Clarkson, the most successful team in modern history, have not have a huge focus on winning clearances.

To win a flag recent history would suggest clearances ain't where it's at.

And thankfully goodie has clearly recognised this and made the appropriate tactical change. 

It is worth noting in this context that under Cameron, the Giants have been very focused on winning clearances.  Topped the differential table in 2017, third in 2018 and second in 2019 - the year they made the Grand Final (and got smashed by a team not focused on clearances).

And in 2020? Twelfth.

Coincidence? Maybe.

But more likely, Cameron, like all AFL coaches, has drilled down on what factors have made the tigers so successful and tried to replicate them. Which is smart.

The dogs topped the clearance differential table when they won the flag in 2016, but no doubt responding to the factors have contributed  to premiership success have been mid table since.

Interestingly the Power have topped the clearance differential table the last two years, so have landed on a different tactical model. Time will tell if it is works. But history suggests it won't.

Source for data: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2020&type=DA&sby=29&advv=Y 

Edited by binman
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think that this is basically what is going on - he's a great bloke and a bit of a larrikin, but like you say let's see him fire up and throw that weight around.  Especially now he's getting a chop out from Dogga up forward. 

2 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Said similar before myself.  Max wins his tap then does nothing to help the midfielders clear the congestion.  He is a liability almost when the ball hits the ground.   He needs to start throwing his weight around, he is a huge unit but Spargo plays with more tenacity around the contests.  Max needs to start playing with lot more aggression, clearing paths for our onballers by blocks/screens or just throwing himself at a contest and make things happen.

Complaining to the umpires shows the weak mindset he actually has during games.   

Seeing him being bullied by comparative midgets says a lot about us.  He is our Captain and if he does not lead by example and fly the flag occasionally, who will?  

Love Max as a "character" and apparently he trains like a dedicated footballer should, but it is time to show a hardened edge to his game to not make him so easy to play against.

I don't think Max gets angry though, or he never shows it by his actions.

Every match is a virtual war, he needs to start playing accordingly.  ATM a player like Mumford would do a lot more for our esteemed midfield.  

FFS get angry and SHOW it Max!

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, binman said:

With respect, I disagree with both of these points.

We have changed the way we play and we no longer prioritse winning clearances the way we did under Roos or in Goodies first three seasons as coach. Which by the by, contradicts the Goody doesn't change narrative many on DL adhere to. 

Again i'm not saying clearances are not important to us, but there a has been a clear tactical shift in regard to the relative importance of clearances - a shift that gathered pace in the second half of last season

  • In 2018 we were 4th in clearance differential with +2.4  (the tigers were last, with -5.6)
  • In 2019 we were 3rd in clearance differential with +3  (the tigers were 16th, with -4.6, the eagles, who won the flag, were 7th with +0.3)
  • In 2020 we were 6th in clearance differential with +1.4  (the tigers were 16th, with -3.8, the team they beat in the Grand Final, the lions was 9th at +1.1)

Added to the above the Hawks under Clarkson, the most successful team in modern history, have not have a huge focus on winning clearances.

To win a flag recent history would suggest clearances ain't where it's at.

And thankfully goodie has clearly recognised this and made the appropriate tactical change. 

It is worth noting in this context that under Cameron, the Giants have been very focused on winning clearances.  Topped the differential table in 2017, third in 2018 and second in 2019 - the year they made the Grand Final (and got smashed by a team not focused on clearances).

And in 2020? Twelfth.

Coincidence? Maybe.

But more likely, Cameron, like all AFL coaches, has drilled down on what factors have made the tigers so successful and tried to replicate them. Which is smart.

The dogs topped the clearance differential table when they won the flag in 2016, but no doubt responding to the factors have contributed  to premiership success have been mid table since.

Interestingly the Power have topped the clearance differential table the last two years, so have landed on a different tactical model. Time will tell if it is works. But history suggests it won't.

Source for data: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2020&type=DA&sby=29&advv=Y 

I like the effort you have put into this post, but to suggest such a strong correlation (positive or negative) between winning flags and clearances is, in my view at least, misleading.

There are a number of other factors which I would contend were more important for each of those teams in winning flags.  The most notable being forward driven defensive pressure - the real hallmark of Richmond's game.  People don't watch Richmond and say - they are defined by losing clearances and Vlaustuin/Houli rebounding off halfback (although I agree this could be a strategic face of their game).  They note the second efforts and shut down pressure of their small forward brigade. 

This isn't to say I don't agree with your analysis that "clearances aren't as significant KPI as people may think". Tend to agree on that measure, in fact i'm not sure we get much from such a dominant aerial ruckman either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Altona-demon said:

I like the effort you have put into this post, but to suggest such a strong correlation (positive or negative) between winning flags and clearances is, in my view at least, misleading.

There are a number of other factors which I would contend were more important for each of those teams in winning flags.  The most notable being forward driven defensive pressure - the real hallmark of Richmond's game.  People don't watch Richmond and say - they are defined by losing clearances and Vlaustuin/Houli rebounding off halfback (although I agree this could be a strategic face of their game).  They note the second efforts and shut down pressure of their small forward brigade. 

This isn't to say I don't agree with your analysis that "clearances aren't as significant KPI as people may think". Tend to agree on that measure, in fact i'm not sure we get much from such a dominant aerial ruckman either. 

No but I think he's pointing out that just because we got beaten in the clearance is no cause for alarm (as many reacted after the game).  We beat a team who are tipped to finish around us or just below and many were saying the clearance numbers were cause for concern.

With max in there I would expect us to do better.  But if we are setting up so that when we win a clearance it is a clean effective win and when we lose it is less likely to be damaging to us then that is a great change - even if it means we're winning less of them.  Quality over quantity.

I remember watching a number of games against Richmond in recent years where I noticed how hard Oliver and co fought to win the clearance only to have  Vlaustin / Houli and co rebound off half back - they might not be defined by it but it is a big strategic win for them.  Playing against Hawthorn when they were a finals team was much the same.

I think over time we will see the likes of Kozzie and maybe even Melkshem spend more time in the centre square as we look to find some quicker skilful agile types to enable break away clearances - Richmond with Shai Bolton are again setting the standard with this.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ManDee said:

Strawbs was a good player. I think he was better than Stynes. He had mongrel and put the wind up the opposition. He was cruelled by injury. I don't think you can teach mongrel.

Mongrel is essential. It does not have to be sheer violence. Subtle accidents do occur, and players move on to the next part of the game/ground. Opposition smart-R-says are so open to advisories these days (the silent type of professional moderation despatch) that limit and complicate their initial levels of involvement and engagement for the ball. That is enough wisdom transference,  in my view. Strawbs was a good player and an effective one, at that; he was full of sound advice (as described above) for all opponents whilst putting his wing around the welfare of his teammates - particularly those with duck's disease. Ricky Jackson come to mind - even clinging to the skirts of Strawbs to ensure a team possession or two during the match.

We need a 'Strawbs' right now. Hence, the value of AVB when match-ready. As far as teaching is concerned, here endeth the lesson. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Altona-demon said:

I like the effort you have put into this post, but to suggest such a strong correlation (positive or negative) between winning flags and clearances is, in my view at least, misleading.

 

Again AD, it appears you have  misunderstood me.

I'm not sure what you mean saying i have suggested 'such a strong correlation' between winning flags and clearances or what you mean by misleading?

Fact are facts.

Of course there are outliers, but the facts are indisputable. The majority of flags in the last 15 years have been won by teams who have not prioritized winning clearances.

It is not a statistical blip. It is evidence of a particular tactical approach. One the dees are now adopting. Thankfully. 

The two most successful teams of the modern era - the hawks and the Tigers have been near the bottom of the clearance differential table in their premiership year. 

I totally agree there any number of other key factors contributing to the success in the Hawks and tigers winning seasons.  I wasn't suggesting otherwise. 

I didn't even imply clearances was the most important factor, or suggest they are more or less important than the other factors.

You might argue forward driven defensive pressure is the most important factor. And you might be right. Or not (i would argue a team that has fully bought into the system and have a collective 'winning first culture' is the most important factor). But that is a different discussion. 

The dees are now less focused on the need to win clearances than we were. In this respect we are following the tiger's lead.

We are also following their lead in a host of other ways, tactical and cultural. 

Of course we don't want to be down eight zip early doors.  However it is worth nothing that we ended the game down eight in clearances, meaning from about the 20 minute mark of the first quarter we broke even. Suggesting Goodwin made some changes. 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    CITIUS, ALTIUS, FORTIUS by The Oracle

    This weekend, the Melbourne Football Club was supposed to embark on a tour that started with what looked like an innocent trip to the country’s sunny Gold Coast. However, the Covid19 pandemic intervened to bring them back home for this week at least. Next week, it’s off to the West Coast but conspiracy theorists are already suggesting that this interstate sojourn could take the team all the way across the country over the next month and indeed, there are cynics who even believe that it could bec

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE YEAR THE SNOWFLAKES FELL by Whispering Jack

    The snow that fell on the slopes of Victoria’s mountain districts in the winter of 1965 was not considered good enough to satisfy the enthusiasts. The really heavy snow that season came in two waves further north in July and August. The first descended on the national capital where “Pig Iron Bob” still held sway. Snow flurries touched the landscape all the way across the Blue Mountains. The next big snow extended further north up to the hills around Mackay in Queensland. Snowflakes fell inside t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 10

    DEES GIVE DOGS A BONE by George On The Outer

    First place versus second on the ladder promised to be a precursor to what can be expected in the coming finals race.  However, it was the Demons who faltered and gave the Bulldogs a bone to feed their hunger just weeks out from the end of the season. The win also sent the Dogs to the top of the ladder, a position they are unlikely to cede in the coming weeks, given their fixture. While Melbourne may now struggle to keep a spot in the top four with its draw and will likely depend on the res

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE WORM WILL TURN by The Oracle

    When I was asked to preview this game, I wasn’t sure whether it was going to be played in Darwin, on the Gold Coast or the MCG. I had no idea as to the identity of Melbourne’s opponent. This would have made for one hell of an interesting match preview so I’m glad that the AFL managed to reorganize its fixture to enable a game … any game at all … to proceed in Round 19. We’ll worry about the Gold Coast Suns or whoever they put us up against when the weekend’s done and dusted and if and when

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    DRAWN AND DEEFLATED by George on the Outer

    1st v 17th ... it would seem a sure one way contest between the Hawks and the Demons but it was not to be with the game finishing in a draw, the only positive being the Demons still retain their top spot on the ladder. Melbourne was taught a football lesson by Al Clarkson, who with limited resources, just instructed his players to scrap, fight and surge the ball forward.  It stifled the Melbourne free flowing style of play and denied them the opportunities they could normally expect. I

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    PINK RAIN by Whispering Jack

    There is no certainty about life under a pandemic. You wake up one morning without a care in the world; the sun’s shining and it’s a beautiful day. An hour later, everything’s up in the air, the entire state is on high alert and the apartment complex next door’s in lockdown. The simple decision you had to make about buying a ticket to the footy at the weekend suddenly might get put on the back burner. There are other things in life to prioritise and on top of that, they’re predicting rain for th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    COR BLIMEY by KC from Casey

    In years to come, the old timers will talk in wonderment about the “Avalon Avalanche” that hit Werribee’s Avalon Airport Oval on a mild winter’s afternoon at about ten minutes after the halfway mark of the game between the local Tigers and their cross town rivals, the Demons from Casey. At that moment in time, the game was poised as if on a knifepoint. Up until the main interval, it had been the visiting team which had maintained the lead from the start but it had struggled to entirely asse

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    POWER FAILURE by George on the Outer

    South Australians should be well familiar with the damage that storms can do to the power supply.  But Port Power forgot those lessons on Thursday night football as they watched the Melbourne storm descend upon them from across the border and ruin their hopes of a top four placing. Just as equally, the win to the Demons cemented their spot in the top two and sent out the message that a team who had been going around in circles for the past couple of weeks, has in fact, turned into a cyclone

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    CASEY SUFFER FIRST DEFEAT IN TWO YEARS

    The circumstances were a little unusual last Saturday night as KC from Casey was unavailable to report on the Casey Dees due to work commitments. On the ground things were somewhat unusual as well given that, although there was a game to be won on the night, preparations were also being made for the forthcoming Thursday night clash against Port Adelaide with Ben Brown rested for large slabs of the evening. It turned out perhaps, to be a stroke of genius for Melbourne with Brown making a strong c

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    WEATHERING THE STORM by Mel Rundle

    The magic of Melbourne’s magnificent start to 2021 is beginning to wear off. In its past six matches it lost to three teams that were outside the eight, out of form —  teams which it had very little trouble bearing last year. This week, the temperature is turned up even higher with the hard fought spot in the top four at risk. The really ominous factor about the Demons’ upcoming Thursday night meeting with Port Adelaide this week is that it is due to take place at the very place where its dec

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    FEE-FI-FO-FUM by George on the Outer

    “Fee-fi-fo-fum, without a Full Forward the Premiership can’t be won!” So said the GWS Giants, as they exposed Melbourne’s fatal deficiency with a nine point win at the MCG.  In past weeks Melbourne has been barely able to gloss over the lack of a serious target in front of goal, while others were able to contribute.  But in a near repeat of the game from the previous week, players running up the ground simply had no-one to kick the ball to, when all that was needed was that one tall target.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    MUCH ADO ABOUT EVERYTHING by Whispering Jack

    Let's face it. We Melbourne supporters are a demanding lot. Here we are with our team on top of the ladder with a record of 12 wins and 2 losses, a decent percentage and a fair run home for a team with finals credentials. We have a fit list with lots of in form players, many of who are in contention for All Australian and other high honours, the team’s playing with purpose and cohesion and its VFL affiliate is undefeated and going gangbusters.  Still, we're all walking around with conc

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews


×
×
  • Create New...