Winger, winger, chicken dinner?!

[spalding 1,116]

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

I don't think Salem is a line-breaker, he's good at opening up the game for others with his quick short kicks.

Among a million other things, the club just continually behaves like a small club. As discussed, plenty of other clubs have targeted players and got them. We just don't work hard enough to get the best available in, which is infuriating for supporters who watch Nathan Jones hobble around on a wing

You can argue whether we target the right player, but given our recent targets in the last 3 years have been Lever, Langdon, Tomlinson, May and Brown we have a pretty good track record of getting our targets.

[BW511 2,236]

26 minutes ago, spalding said:

You can argue whether we target the right player, but given our recent targets in the last 3 years have been Lever, Langdon, Tomlinson, May and Brown we have a pretty good track record of getting our targets.

Agree with the fact we got what we wanted, but none of those players were the premier player in their given position. During that period I reckon there has been a better version of every single one of those players move clubs. May could be excused, as he is probably in the conversation now - he wasn't at the time.

 

Edit: @spalding I know the part about the player targeted wasn't what you were specifically questioning.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by BW511

[58er 5,593]

3 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Why not go and get Lewis Jetta for a year while we develop a player.. maybe not but why did we not explore more options.. we have managed to keep AVB, Jetta and Jones on the list, they are simply to slow to play 2021 AFL football, great warriors but they re done, the club couldnt make teh tough decisions and it will cost us.

And when will we hear about adding players to the list.. what more do they need to find out.. i just have a bad feeling about where teh club is at the moment.. hope i am very wrong.

Didn't say that last week I bet D3!!!
It's never as bad or as good etc.  you know!!

[Demon3 2,541]

14 minutes ago, 58er said:

Didn't say that last week I bet D3!!!
It's never as bad or as good etc.  you know!!

Yep thats fair 58er.. just frustrated. i know ill be there r1 hoping like hell for a win.

[58er 5,593]

3 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Yep thats fair 58er.. just frustrated. i know ill be there r1 hoping like hell for a win.

That's the spirit D3 I am coming down from Brisbane hoping for something special from the 22 that we name.

Freo are gettable esp without Walters but we must stop Fyfe and Taberner up forward  and win  the mid battles and make use of the ball going forward.

Go Dees

[old55 21,216]

I'm hoping they play Melksham there - he put in a big pre-season of running with Jones at TBO and has the attributes to play well in the role. Has been training with the midfield group.   His kicking would be a nice contrast to Langdon's.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Pollyanna

[dl4e 5,581]

56 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

I'm hoping they play Melksham there - he put in a big pre-season of running with Jones at TBO and has the attributes to play well in the role. Has been training with the midfield group.   His kicking would be a nice contrast to Langdon's.

Disagree on that one. He is lazy and won't tackle properly.

[rjay 23,867]

8 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Disagree on that one. He is lazy and won't tackle properly.

Well, at least it will be obvious.

On a wing there's nowhere to hide.

If he doesn't tackle/chase/run etc...it would probably be a premature end to his career.

I agree with 'Polly', we have to at least try him there.

Baker is certainly not the answer and I'm not sure we have anyone else.

[dl4e 5,581]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

Well, at least it will be obvious.

On a wing there's nowhere to hide.

If he doesn't tackle/chase/run etc...it would probably be a premature end to his career.

I agree with 'Polly', we have to at least try him there.

Baker is certainly not the answer and I'm not sure we have anyone else.

I would try someone younger. Even Bowey. Milkshake can at times get the ball in theforward line and snap a goal. But as I said he doesn't tackle and tries to avert being tackled. Fritch is another one like milkshake but is a far better player. As you say no where to hide.

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

I'm led to believe the club went in with 5 options they thought were going to be an upgrade on Vanders and superior to bloating the cap with Tom Phillips - a short term gain but possibly not enough of a long term answer.

1. Harmes. He has the tank, he can win aerial contests and his decision making/kicking errors are less concerning on the wing. We just haven't seen a lot of him in preseason because they've used him on ball. The issue is with Fyfe in round 1 are we really going to go head to head against Fyfe? Or trust Jordon. Either way, Harmes has some solid pros if we can settle him in the role.

2. Melksham. Concerns over his defensive aptitude are certainly fair but he puts up good kms and clearly the best of his disposal is super damaging.

3. Baker. A fitter version of Baker - and he does seem to be covering the ground well is a more suitable athlete. Sadly he just doesn't seem to read the play well or make good decisions. Throw in some poor contesting and it's not a good combination. Not 100% ready to rule him out after a string of VFL games because I think he improves as he goes on in a season but it's been a rough start.

4. Jackson. He lacks forward craft and struggles to pick the ball up in the air but he can really cover the ground and his size, unpredictable movement and clean hands makes things happen. If we had 2 tall forwards ahead of him there'd be a strong case for trying him as a ruck/wing hybrid for a strong point of difference.

5. Tom McDonald. He can run all day and he loves running to receive the ball when he has his head up. Disposal obviously a worry as is stoppage play but he could find confidence to use it better when he's rolling. Obviously he's been used forward so we haven't seen this option.

[Turner 1,482]

6 hours ago, godees said:

Whilst I was hoping we'd go after Phillips, I suspect it was a salary cap management decision. He would come cheap from a picks perspective but his existing contract may not have been as attractive (with Petracca, Oliver and others coming up for re-contracting).

he only had one year to go! all we had to do was offer him a standard 3 year deal and flatten the coin out, promise he would walk into the 22 and it woulda been signed sealed and delivered but we didn't and now we look stupid. 

two players i really like for the wing spot if they become available are lipinski and vandemeer who ironically towelled us up yesterday. but OOC at seasons end and spend some time in the 2s last year even on the back of 20 touch games coz they couldn't fit them in especially with treloar now in there and mclean to come back from an acl next year. ffs ill even take lin jong.

also josh kelly is the obvious like a-a grader that we should have already registered interest in too.

[tiers 2,761]

I have long advocated for TMac to play the traditional wing role - up and down the ground assisting defence, offering a leading target out of defence and holding the ball in forward. He has the motor, size and the skills for this "energizer bunny" role on one side of the ground and he is taller and stronger than most likely opponents.

Until the FD coaches for this role then it will not work. Like all planned mismatches it needs to be thought out and trained into the team. And will take time to bear fruit but when it does, if it does, it will be worth the effort.

Let's see if there is any vision in the FD.

[layzie 28,520]

I'm still annoyed we missed out on Tom Phillips, I'm sure it would have been looked at if we were able to move T-Mac but that wasn't the case. But it shouldn't have come down to that anyway. 

Of course he's going to do well at the Hawks, useful players tend to go there (aside from recent years). Whereas we like the left field eye brow raiser like Tomlinson.

[rjay 23,867]

4 hours ago, dl4e said:

I would try someone younger. Even Bowey. Milkshake can at times get the ball in theforward line and snap a goal. But as I said he doesn't tackle and tries to avert being tackled. Fritch is another one like milkshake but is a far better player. As you say no where to hide.

I think Bowey could do it...I like what I saw of him.

He gets to the right positions, his first few spoils showed even at his height he is pretty good in the air and can get up.

Nice user and good thinker, already puts him ahead of anyone else we've tried there.

...but would it be asking too much for him to cover the amount of ground a wingman needs to cover these days as a first year player.

[rjay 23,867]

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm led to believe the club went in with 5 options they thought were going to be an upgrade on Vanders and superior to bloating the cap with Tom Phillips - a short term gain but possibly not enough of a long term answer.

1. Harmes. He has the tank, he can win aerial contests and his decision making/kicking errors are less concerning on the wing. We just haven't seen a lot of him in preseason because they've used him on ball. The issue is with Fyfe in round 1 are we really going to go head to head against Fyfe? Or trust Jordon. Either way, Harmes has some solid pros if we can settle him in the role.

2. Melksham. Concerns over his defensive aptitude are certainly fair but he puts up good kms and clearly the best of his disposal is super damaging.

3. Baker. A fitter version of Baker - and he does seem to be covering the ground well is a more suitable athlete. Sadly he just doesn't seem to read the play well or make good decisions. Throw in some poor contesting and it's not a good combination. Not 100% ready to rule him out after a string of VFL games because I think he improves as he goes on in a season but it's been a rough start.

4. Jackson. He lacks forward craft and struggles to pick the ball up in the air but he can really cover the ground and his size, unpredictable movement and clean hands makes things happen. If we had 2 tall forwards ahead of him there'd be a strong case for trying him as a ruck/wing hybrid for a strong point of difference.

5. Tom McDonald. He can run all day and he loves running to receive the ball when he has his head up. Disposal obviously a worry as is stoppage play but he could find confidence to use it better when he's rolling. Obviously he's been used forward so we haven't seen this option.

I will rule Baker out, doesn't run through the footy...runs around it, that's why he's poor at the contest.

Totally lost in traffic and not a natural ball winner out of it says a big no for me.

Tommy Mac, just not a smart enough player to play there. That and his disposal make him a liability.

Edited March 9, 2021 by rjay

[Ethan Tremblay 28,293]

Pick a player at random and just wing it. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Ethan Tremblay

[rjay 23,867]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Pick a player at random and just wing it. 

I think that's what we've been doing 'Ethan'.

Maybe time for a different approach whatever that is...

[640MD 2,748]

Was glad yesterday that this is March and we had a number of best 22 out,  and we could have a look at the next lot.

Well I did not see much to enthuse about in the first half except we were not "out" of the game.  That was probably normal.

Then came the t urd quarter, and That was probably normal, as well.  Go missing at least one quarter. No point in watching the last, no one else was trying, for both sides. If we do better than 8th spot, it will be a big turnaround on yesterday.

Our bottom 6 players are just not good enough.  I will wait for the senior players to come back,  but I am not holding my breath.

How about nominating two or three of the running players to be the winger and compete for it  but not pick or train for any other position.  Would that work ?

[dee-tox 4,772]

5 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

I'm hoping they play Melksham there - he put in a big pre-season of running with Jones at TBO and has the attributes to play well in the role. Has been training with the midfield group.   His kicking would be a nice contrast to Langdon's.

I think this may be the short-term solution. For the wing you need to be reasonable overhead and good one on one which Melksham is. 

The other decent options of Fritta, Rivers, Salem, etc you are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

 

[Fat Tony 4,370]

Not sure if he has the engine, but Rivers has all of the other requirements to play the role. 

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

The problem isn’t just the lack of second winger. I think we could get by with Baker or Vanders playing 60% if need be. The problem is exacerbated by none of our forwards or inside mids being able to rotate out there. 

Nath Jones offers very little forward but he’ll probably get the round 1 nod over others because they trust him to fill some time on the wing without it being a disaster. Brayshaw likely the same. 

Anyway, we’ll see what happens. Harmes/Melksham combination seems the most likely solution so far. 

[dee-tox 4,772]

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The problem isn’t just the lack of second winger. I think we could get by with Baker or Vanders playing 60% if need be. 

 

I understand what you are saying, but if Baker is needed to play 60 percent on a wing we are in trouble IMO. His lack of contested ability, defensive ability and the fact he can't play more than a quarter should result in opposition teams going through his wing and exposing us. 

With Vanders, his contested ability is great and he does put pressure on the opposition but his ball use is generally poor which doesn't augur well for our forwards!

[McQueen 17,862]

11 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We put all our eggs in thr Isaac Smith basket and the moment we missed out, we simply had no plan B. It was well documented that Phillips was being shopped in the open market and every footy journo and media outlet said that it was the perfect fit for us. And it would have been.

The arrogance in this football continues to amaze me.

To be fair, the club would’ve looked more amateur to go grovelling to Phillips manager after we missed out on Smith. 
Plan B wasn’t even a chance with Phillips. 
Plan C is playing out in front of us now. 

[demon3165 1,908]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I will rule Baker out, doesn't run through the footy...runs around it, that's why he's poor at the contest.

Totally lost in traffic and not a natural ball winner out of it says a big no for me.

Tommy Mac, just not a smart enough player to play there. That and his disposal make him a liability.

Could not have said it better myself.....

[Earl Hood 5,787]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm led to believe the club went in with 5 options they thought were going to be an upgrade on Vanders and superior to bloating the cap with Tom Phillips - a short term gain but possibly not enough of a long term answer.

1. Harmes. He has the tank, he can win aerial contests and his decision making/kicking errors are less concerning on the wing. We just haven't seen a lot of him in preseason because they've used him on ball. The issue is with Fyfe in round 1 are we really going to go head to head against Fyfe? Or trust Jordon. Either way, Harmes has some solid pros if we can settle him in the role.

2. Melksham. Concerns over his defensive aptitude are certainly fair but he puts up good kms and clearly the best of his disposal is super damaging.

3. Baker. A fitter version of Baker - and he does seem to be covering the ground well is a more suitable athlete. Sadly he just doesn't seem to read the play well or make good decisions. Throw in some poor contesting and it's not a good combination. Not 100% ready to rule him out after a string of VFL games because I think he improves as he goes on in a season but it's been a rough start.

4. Jackson. He lacks forward craft and struggles to pick the ball up in the air but he can really cover the ground and his size, unpredictable movement and clean hands makes things happen. If we had 2 tall forwards ahead of him there'd be a strong case for trying him as a ruck/wing hybrid for a strong point of difference.

5. Tom McDonald. He can run all day and he loves running to receive the ball when he has his head up. Disposal obviously a worry as is stoppage play but he could find confidence to use it better when he's rolling. Obviously he's been used forward so we haven't seen this option.

Interesting in these ideas to plug the problematic hole of the other wing is there is no discussion of trialling Joel Smith, if he was ever fit of course. We know he has good size, 190 cm and that he can run and cover ground. Then we were told by Richo last season that this guy is an elite endurance beast who can run all day. We know Smith is an elite athlete lacking in the footy smarts that limits his potential as a forward and has limited him so far as a lockdown defender when fit. Could he be released to the wing and just told to keep running into space to receive the ball when we have the pill and running down the opposition when we don’t? Apart from the Jackson option, the others just don’t look to have the attributes. Harmes and TMac are on the slow side. Does Melksham have the engine?