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Melbourne midfielders have to park egos



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"Overall, Melbourne’s issue has been that they are a team that is less than the sum of their parts, less than the accumulated output of individuals."

Beautifully put Jake.

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I’m not sure I like the idea of any of those three (Oliver, Viney and Bradshaw) cooling their jets in another part of the ground. Will be interesting which one adapts best to their “second” (non-mid) role on the field.

Edited by PaulRB
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Lost me when he got to this bit:

"The game style will shift to one that is predicated on forward-half turnovers. While this is hardly original, it represents a gamble for Goodwin, given that Melbourne does not have the kind of forward riches of Richmond, Geelong or West Coast.

By seeking to play a “front half” game, those Demon mids will be more aggressive in their positioning, pushing up higher and affording their improved defence a little less protection. So, Steven May and Jake Lever must hold their own in more one-on-one contests."

Has he not watched a Melbourne game in the Goodwin era?

We've been a side predicated on forward-half turnovers for four seasons now. 

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I wish this article was written when the start the year 8-1 and is sourced from what people see rather than us broadcasting it now. 

Communicating this now just seems to put a target on our head. Melbourne all talk again ect.

I am a very positive supporter and I know positivity is good marketing but I just wish the positivity coming from the club ( been huge this week) would just be turned down a few notches until we actually do something. 

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I’m guessing this is code for lack of defensive mindset from those four primary on ballers, and if it’s in both papers simultaneously it does seem like a plant coming from the club to send those players a message.

Petracca and Oliver have the physical tools to be effective forwards. Petracca has proved this many times and Oliver has in flashes and now his shoulders seem to be better his marking should be back. I wonder if Oliver is willing to play forward, or willing do enough of the defensive things when on ball. There has long been noise that while he’s a hard worker, he isn’t the easiest to coach as he is so head strong and competitive.

Viney and Brayshaw I’m a bit more concerned they have athletic limitations that mean I’m not sure where they can play and be effective when not on ball.

Brayshaw was tried on a wing which exposed his pace weakness and nullified his strength or winning contested ball, but Brayshaw does seem to have some decent goal sense so maybe he can play half forward. Viney has been tried up forward and never really did much but had some good games as a tagger in the past but more recently he seems to want to be an attacking mid and he just doesn’t have the foot skills for it.

I thought it was the right time to lose one of Viney or Brayshaw this past off season given the lack of positional flexibility they provide, Sparrow and Jordon seemed to be coming on for depth, plus freeing up cap room and getting some draft capital in via a trade but not to be.

I’d make Viney and Harmes rotate as the defensive/tagging mid, and let Petracca and Oliver focus on being attacking until the opponent shows they are causing too much damage. If the opposition is getting on top in clearances, both Viney and Harmes in the for a more conservative defensive setup with only one of Oliver or Petracca in there focussing on being attacking while the other goes forward - which doesn’t leave much room for Brayshaw except in case of injury or giving cut outs here and there.

I’m sure Yze will have far more sophisticated things in mind than my thoughts, but the true test will be if the match committee have the courage of their convictions to drop those star mids if they continually fail to follow instructions.

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I'm not sure "ego" is the right word. Selflessness makes more sense.

I want them to have big egos, to strut and display their "feathers", they are elite players of Aussie rules.

 Be proud of their skills. Don't take a back step and play without second guessing or anxiety. 

Pump them up Goody.

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I’m also not sure about it being a case of egos but rather a matter of the way the players’ roles have been laid out for the individual. It seems that this is where the coaches are attempting to tweak how the midfield will operate in 2021. One thing’s for sure, we won’t find out with the line up fronting the Bulldogs at Marvel Stadium this afternoon.

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Year 5 of Goodwin's reign and the talk from the club is still about 'attitudes' and 'selfless''.  

These are are mandatory in a team sport.  It is an indictment on club, coach and players that we have yet to 'walk the talk'.  What happened to our 'Esprit de Corps' of 2018!!!  Was it just talk.  Was it just for show?

 

Two aspects of the article stood out for me:

"They will have a different game plan, built around the team’s strengths".  Isn't this coaching 101?  A game plan to get the most from the cattle you have (ie to "maximise player strengths"), was the fundamental base of a Roos' team.   

"In 2021, teams will need some of their mid-sized or small forwards – and potentially even defenders – to expand the number of midfielders who take their turn to 10; some teams already do so".  When Roos joined he made his priority to rebuild the midfield and he talked about 8 - 12 'on-ballers' who rotate through the midfield.  Until late last year we relied on a few to spend most of the on-field time in the midfield.  The result was players played out of position and frustrated players who couldn't achieve their best.

I'm beginning to wonder whether Goodwin was paying attention to Roos.  Here we are 7 years after Goodwin joined and he is now adopting Roos' game fundamentals. 

I recall Pert saying late last year that we have the list and put the heat on Goodwin to create a game plan that makes the most of player strengths.  I really hope Goodwin fully adopts this and not just play lip-service to it.

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10 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Lost me when he got to this bit:

"The game style will shift to one that is predicated on forward-half turnovers. While this is hardly original, it represents a gamble for Goodwin, given that Melbourne does not have the kind of forward riches of Richmond, Geelong or West Coast.

By seeking to play a “front half” game, those Demon mids will be more aggressive in their positioning, pushing up higher and affording their improved defence a little less protection. So, Steven May and Jake Lever must hold their own in more one-on-one contests."

Has he not watched a Melbourne game in the Goodwin era?

We've been a side predicated on forward-half turnovers for four seasons now. 

To me the more important part is the 2nd paragraph....basically the message is saying we are going to put much more pressure on in front half and have trust in our backline.  Instead of being outnumbered forward and kicking repeatedly to that outnumber we are evening out the field and trusting forwards to play their role, as well as backs to play theirs.

It's a change we had to make....Having a stacked backline and nobody to kick it to when going forward was one of our biggest issues imo.  We seemed to play better with a man on man mentality that we only saw for few brief moments last year.   These changes make everyone more accountable with a bit of clarity around what each role should look like. A semblance of a gameplan is going to get these guys running around with purpose, rather than headless chickens they have been over last few years.  We have the talent, exciting times ahead as we find our mojo as a team with new attitudes, and a tenacity to take the game on at all times.

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27 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Typical pre-season guff.

If we played the game like we talked we would be premiership shoe-ins.

And rather than “Park the Ego” how about "Run both Ways"

that's the key, isn't it

a defensive mindset will make the world of difference - tiggas have one player (neck tatts) who doesn't work back defensively because he's so damaging forward of centre

last year i reckon we had three mids who worked both ways - gawn (who really ONLY pushed back, never forward), viney, and oliver

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12 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Lost me when he got to this bit:

"The game style will shift to one that is predicated on forward-half turnovers. While this is hardly original, it represents a gamble for Goodwin, given that Melbourne does not have the kind of forward riches of Richmond, Geelong or West Coast.

By seeking to play a “front half” game, those Demon mids will be more aggressive in their positioning, pushing up higher and affording their improved defence a little less protection. So, Steven May and Jake Lever must hold their own in more one-on-one contests."

Has he not watched a Melbourne game in the Goodwin era?

We've been a side predicated on forward-half turnovers for four seasons now. 

Absolutely. The first thing Goody did when he took control for the last round of 2015 was switch to a zone defence and press system.

I thought we got the balance pretty close to right last year with our mids providing more support to the backline whilst still trying to push forward.

We went too fast and had too many turnovers that meant teams rebounded too easily but on the days our skills were sharp it all looked very good.

The mids needed to sharp their skills and team work. And the forwards had to halve more contests and get more consistent pressure. But that doesn’t mean reverting to 2018 style of chucking everyone forward.

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13 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

"Overall, Melbourne’s issue has been that they are a team that is less than the sum of their parts, less than the accumulated output of individuals."

Beautifully put Jake.

I thought this for the last two seasons. The midfield can be so much better if it works more as a coordinated unit rather than a number of talented individuals. I am hoping Yze can recreate a cohesive unit similar to the Hawks midfield at their peak. Not  asking for much I know. 

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Trying to make sense of all of the above, and particularly Max's comments, please let me know if i have this wrong:

If we zip the lips

Park the ego trips,

Listen to our leadership,

Then at our fingertips

Are multiple premierships. 

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13 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

that's the key, isn't it

a defensive mindset will make the world of difference - tiggas have one player (neck tatts) who doesn't work back defensively because he's so damaging forward of centre

last year i reckon we had three mids who worked both ways - gawn (who really ONLY pushed back, never forward), viney, and oliver

Gawn was a target for every long kick down the line apart from inside 50. Not many rucks are given permission to run in to the forwards space and for good reason.

Brayshaw worked back hard, often too hard, his issue is pressure at the contest and being so flat footed, he over corrected by just sprinting back at times. Langdon, Vanders and even on ball Melksham did the kms.

I disagree that the running is the issue. Or even ‘defending’. The issue is not adapting to a style of play that puts team above possession stats. Cotchin is performing defensive acts but not with a defensive mindset, he knows if he keeps in position then lays a bump or tackle it forces a turnover and results in a clean clearance. Cotchin is super aggressive, he’s just focussed on team not stats. 

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I have been saying for years the midfield play selfish and not too smart. I can’t recall the last time one of our vaunted midfielders gave a tap or knock on to advantage or put in a shepherd to assist someone else getting a clearance. It’s like they all want the clearance and statistic recorded on their stat sheet. If stats were given for non possession  “catalyst” plays that start a chain that leads to scores it might be different. I hope things change this season. 

Edited by america de cali
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Well if it's going to more of the same $*%^ as years past, you would think goodwin and co will be gone before mid-season.

If this group can't work then why the hell waste our money and time?

We as members have had enough, of missing out, since 1964!!!!🤬

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18 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

 

Has he not watched a Melbourne game in the Goodwin era?

We've been a side predicated on forward-half turnovers for four seasons now. 

That's right

We haven't has a functioning forward line since '06 (apart from one aberration season - 2018)

Yet somehow the midfielders keep getting blamed for the 'perceived' poor delivery. 

These people keep pointing at the DE stats for our midfielders (those stats become largely irrelevant when considering they have no one to kick it to)

As a midfielder about to deliver to our forward line you'd see stagnant forwards who won't make position,  won't lead,  wont put their bodies on the line.  When they do lead they head towards the safety of the boundary line. 

Not enough 2nd efforts, poor kicking for goal and our forwards often don't even make a contest

But somehow, that's the fault of the midfielders?  I often wonder how many people watch our games intently

I suspect they've got their heads stuck in the stats sheet specifically looking at the DE numbers

In the 70's we had a premier midfielder ... Wells,  Alves,  Flower & Fowler were stars.  But we couldn't win games because we had a poor forward line. 

History repeating

Edited by Macca
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I don’t mind the article given the modern game of two way running. Our contested footy is our go to Plan A but it has some flaws.  


1- our skills let us down and turnovers kill you when your players are in attack mode only to see if killed off by a poor kick or poor decision 

2- our pace and run needs another gear. We needed that extra wingman to compliment Langdon once the midfield bulls (Trac, Clarry, Viney, Harmes) win the footy. 
 

3- what happens when the opposition wins the contested footy. The Dogs and Swans matched us last year and we were unable to adjust to defend their 1st possession from the contest. I think it’s that defensive mindset that needed the work over the summer as well. 
 

I think our mids are as good as any group in the AFL. It’s the ability to convert that into goals that is the challenge. Is it the ineffective  Forward line ?? Or the Midfield delivery and decision making?? Goody needs the solution.  We need to have both solved to somehow grab the cup in 2021. 

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16 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

"Overall, Melbourne’s issue has been that they are a team that is less than the sum of their parts, less than the accumulated output of individuals."

Beautifully put Jake.

And the one that needs to take MOST notice is Viney!!

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3 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Typical pre-season guff.

If we played the game like we talked we would be premiership shoe-ins.

And rather than “Park the Ego” how about "Run both Ways"

Congratulations to both Jake Niall and Mark Robinson for not using the old cliche "there's no 'I' in team". I'm a bit worried, though, that "park the ego" has become its replacement.  

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