The CHF Debate

[Johnny Karate 559]

It is a discussion that often reverts to a Miller vs Dunn slanging match.

One party will point out that Miller has poor skills and leads to far up the wings. The opposition will say that Dunn isn't a very physical presence in the forwardline and doesn't work as hard in presenting as Miller.

The argument goes round and round in circles - no one side is right and often the criticism refering to the deficient aspects of each players games are often accurate.

My point is that when discussing CHF options in the long term it seems to me that only these two names come up.

May I put forward the case for one Matthew Bate?

The kid is tall, has a decent size frame to build on, a clean pair of hands, quick off the mark, can kick the ball a mile and goes when it is his turn.

I'm not saying he is the messiah but I believe it is oversight to discount him as a longterm CHF or KPF option.

[The Chook Factor 0]

i would suggest colin is a better option than bate

[dazzledavey36 48,655]

dont think so chook bate won the morrish medal at under 18s because he was killing em when he played full forward CHF. Bate can do alot of damage in the forward line then most people think. Colin has hardly set the world on fire playing in the forward line, does at sandy but not at AFL level.

[occo 2]

dont think so chook bate won the morrish medal at under 18s because he was killing em when he played full forward CHF. Bate can do alot of damage in the forward line then most people think. Colin has hardly set the world on fire playing in the forward line, does at sandy but not at AFL level.

Alrighty this is how i feel. I have seen 3 games of Bates (being a croydon boy myself) and i recon bate is better in the midfield. Reasons are that he is a vary punishing player and i feel that this year will be cols year. We dont need col in the midfield because of our depth and although bate would be handy in the forward, i feel he has too much tallent than to be stuck in the forward line. Hes not tall enough form CHF either. As for CHF (dunn v miller), see other trates and posts. We revisit this when dunn is ready. Looking forward to the game and will be my last comment before heading over the bridge. Cold and wet...get thoes jackets out...shame one of melbs hot weather couldnt have been tonight but i guess thats melbourne. Carn the dees!

[mordja 187]

Given current results im going to have to say it wouldnt be a bad trial. Perhaps he needs to get a little bigger but you could be onto something.

IMO a worthy idea.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Sorry to re-hash my old thread and I don't wish to smugly claim vindication for my original post- however I think it's fair to say that Bate has been pretty good around the CHF area in the past fortnight.

What did everyone else think of his games?

And can he be an answer for that position in the long term?

[deanox 8,521]

Sorry to re-hash my old thread and I don't wish to smugly claim vindication for my original post- however I think it's fair to say that Bate has been pretty good around the CHF area in the past fortnight.

What did everyone else think of his games?

And can he be an answer for that position in the long term?

he needs to work on his contested marking, and pack marking...but otherwise he looks to have some of the goods for that position

20 touches (12 handballs) 5 marks and a goal...its a reasonable return...

[Demon2 58]

dont think so chook bate won the morrish medal at under 18s because he was killing em when he played full forward CHF. Bate can do alot of damage in the forward line then most people think. Colin has hardly set the world on fire playing in the forward line, does at sandy but not at AFL level.

he actually won the morrish after being moved out of the CHF/FF position and into the midfield

[re draft molan 1]

It is a discussion that often reverts to a Miller vs Dunn slanging match.

One party will point out that Miller has poor skills and leads to far up the wings. The opposition will say that Dunn isn't a very physical presence in the forwardline and doesn't work as hard in presenting as Miller.

The argument goes round and round in circles - no one side is right and often the criticism refering to the deficient aspects of each players games are often accurate.

My point is that when discussing CHF options in the long term it seems to me that only these two names come up.

May I put forward the case for one Matthew Bate?

The kid is tall, has a decent size frame to build on, a clean pair of hands, quick off the mark, can kick the ball a mile and goes when it is his turn.

I'm not saying he is the messiah but I believe it is oversight to discount him as a longterm CHF or KPF option.

I'm of the opinion that both Bate and Dunn could play across CHF, and push Miller back to Full Back. I'm still not convinced Carroll can hold down that possie. Or give Miller a run on the ball.(a la Pavlich). He's supposed to have a good motor, is reasonably agile for a big guy. I would also play Carroll off a half back flank. He played there a couple of times and gave us good drive I thought. He reminds me of Martin Pike. Just a thought.

[demons007 1]

I'm of the opinion that both Bate and Dunn could play across CHF, and push Miller back to Full Back. I'm still not convinced Carroll can hold down that possie. Or give Miller a run on the ball.(a la Pavlich). He's supposed to have a good motor, is reasonably agile for a big guy. I would also play Carroll off a half back flank. He played there a couple of times and gave us good drive I thought. He reminds me of Martin Pike. Just a thought.

The only place for Miller is in the forward line. He gives his all at every contest, but seems impaired in the back line.

[BAMF 3,783]

how often does miller get benched?

[re draft molan 1]

The only place for Miller is in the forward line. He gives his all at every contest, but seems impaired in the back line.

Phisically or mentally. Just remember he is trying to hold down the hardest position on the field (CHF) in a team that isnt winning. And not too many teams in the AFL can boast a dominant CHF. I just think he is a good enough player to try in another position. DONT WRITE HIM OFF!

[maximum bob 462]

Stop [censored]-footing around. Miller is doing nothing at the moment. No place for him.

The future forward line should include Bate, Dunny, (Newton if proven), Sylvia and Rivers.

Miller's best and last chance will be being groomed as FF when Neitz retires. Other than that, he has no chance.

[demons007 1]

Stop [censored]-footing around. Miller is doing nothing at the moment. No place for him.

The future forward line should include Bate, Dunny, (Newton if proven), Sylvia and Rivers.

Miller's best and last chance will be being groomed as FF when Neitz retires. Other than that, he has no chance.

Miller is one Melbourne player who this year has tried his guts out. His wasn't good last week, but has always presented and provided an option. Stop trying to put him in the back line and let him settle into a position. He continually is an easy scape goat for all melbourne supporters. He was taken in the 50's and wont be a riewoldt. Rivers is the rock in our back line, can't remember him kicking too many goals to date.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Rivers? that was random. Plooease explain.

[maximum bob 462]

Rivers? that was random. Plooease explain.

Not so random Dappa. We have a culture of 'he's a CHB or a CHF' a la Miller and there's no option. A lack of imagination has stifled this team for too long.

Rivers is a great kick, loves a goal, takes a strong grab and finds space. A natural CHF.

In the best of worlds a young Frawley or even Petterd could play CHB the way the Dorks are blooding players with an eye to the future. What have we got to lose?

[fredfanning 0]

Look, Miller player in the Back line for Mt Gravatt & his entire junior career. ND has tried him at CHF for the past 3 years but like most I'm not convinced. He try's hard all match but isn't a Rendwoldt. He is a classic back man. Neitz & Lyon started in the backs till they were moved late in there careers, move Milller there, the sooner & we'll be able to add carrol to the HBF then have a formidable backine with Rivers & Bell

[Madness 44]

Bate is the answer.

[45HG 1,539]

do like bate.

presents, which i've always felt was miller's best asset, but also turns and kicks, long! has a good set of hands, good head on his shoulders, and has room to fill his few deficiences.

another side of the argument is there isn't a true centre half forward in the modern game anyway and you don't need the traditional forward. thus, helping bate further as a mobile player willing to play up the ground and get into the packs when needed.

good hands, good presentation, good kick, and a willingness to take responsiblilty make him my man

[fredfanning 0]

I do like Master but that kick scares me, but atleast he can kick it more then 40M. I really fell Brad will work in the back line, I don't want to loss him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Miller is one Melbourne player who this year has tried his guts out. His wasn't good last week, but has always presented and provided an option. Stop trying to put him in the back line and let him settle into a position. He continually is an easy scape goat for all melbourne supporters. He was taken in the 50's and wont be a riewoldt. Rivers is the rock in our back line, can't remember him kicking too many goals to date.

No one has doubted Miller's effort and application. Its his ability that is in question. As an option, he is a limited one with a low % win of the contested ball. He was taken in the 50's in the draft as a fair recognition of where he is at. He has done well from that position but is not a CHF bootlace. IF Miller has a future it is as a negating backman. He does not cut it up forward.

I cant believe anyone thinks his future is at FF? Good grief.

So what your point about Rivers?

45 hotgod...good hands good kick....Does Miller have a brother?

[demons007 1]

Stop [censored]-footing around. Miller is doing nothing at the moment. No place for him.

The future forward line should include Bate, Dunny, (Newton if proven), Sylvia and Rivers.

My reference to Rivers was in reply to the post above.

[Jarka 767]

This is the dilemma we're facing, key forwards. Basically other than Neitz we don't have a true marking forward.

Miller - We all know his limitations. He is capable of the long lead, mark and then handball, but that's about it.

Dunn - In another thread there is a discussion about how good it is to play him on the wing because of his lack of marking skills, not a good thing if you want a CHF

Bate - Has played well, still more of a marking midifelder though. Perhaps in time he could become a permanent CHF but his skills are probably suited to other areas

Newton - Who knows what this kid is capable of, suggest giving him a go as some players perform better on the big stage

Rivers - Our only true key defender, needed in the backline

[Jaded No More 57,683]

Sylvia.

He isn't your traditional CHF because he is only 186cm, but you will not find a better overhead marker for his size.

He is aggressive, he can mark, he can kick, he can run deep into the forward line, or pull his weight in the midfield. We all want him to become a midfielder, but I don't think his body will ever allow for that to happen. At CHF, he still gets to be involved in the match, and he definitely has the hunger and competitiveness to give the position a crack. As a junior, the instruction was always 'kick it to Col', so he is familiar with what it takes to be a focal point.

Miller just does not possess that level of confidence, and lacks the necessary presence.

IMO, Matthew Bate is too much of a rare sort of talent to be played as a forward. He should be our next Cameron Bruce, or better, Adam Goodes. He is versatile and has the size to play forward, midfield, or back, which is a gift that should not be wasted.