Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Off-season outlook: Pressure will be on Melbourne and Simon Goodwin


M_9

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

I went to a talk by the Richmond mindfulness coach, Emma Murray a couple of years ago and it was very interesting to hear her talk about their approach to breaking out of negative self talk and mid game slumps. Unless she was BS’ing the conference delegates, it is definitely mindfulness techniques but vastly simplified to help an AFL player remember and be able to execute it on the field. They use focus change (both physical and mental) and re-orientation back to the hear and now. This is classic mindfulness but they really bought into it as a group and worked both in group sessions and 1-1 to train it in and reinforce. Obviously she would have somewhat of a bias about it’s contribution to their success but it sounded like the whole club has  attributed a great deal of their turn around to mindfulness and their ability to arrest mid-game form slumps and negativity.

They have really taken 'mindfulness' on board and trained it into players who have been very accepting of the techniques.  This is a good example of how it worked in the 2020 GF.  why-the-richmond-rooms-were-so-hectic-at-half-time

Apparently she always goes into the rooms at half time and she helps settle players and deal with their doubts.  I'm sure she was a key part of 'flicking the switch' in player's minds at half time to get them to come out to win.  The work she can do at half time is tweaking, tweaking that works because it is based on years of training the fundamental mind techniques so players only need reminders during games.

We need a program that trains player's minds as well as their bodies and skills so players know when and how to 'flick the switch' during games and to get support in those techniques at the breaks.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

They have really taken 'mindfulness' on board and trained it into players who have been very accepting of the techniques.  This is a good example of how it worked in the 2020 GF.  why-the-richmond-rooms-were-so-hectic-at-half-time

Apparently she always goes into the rooms at half time and she helps settle players and deal with their doubts.  I'm sure she was a key part of 'flicking the switch' in player's minds at half time to get them to come out to win.  The work she can do at half time is tweaking, tweaking that works because it is based on years of training the fundamental mind techniques so players only need reminders during games.

We need a program that trains player's minds as well as their bodies and skills so players know when and how to 'flick the switch' during games and to get support in those techniques at the breaks.

Yes i have thought this for years

Halftime is so often a reset. 
including what worked and what didn’t

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

i know this may be of no interest to others and certainly not saying I was a good footballer, but recently I remembered a game from my youth. I had been dropped for the first time ever and the following week I was selected at fullback after failing playing forward. A lively full forward kicked two on me in the opening minutes. Somehow I  held him kickless for the remainder of the game and reading your post I now realise I just concentrated fully on my man and my positioning, holding and punching the ball every time the ball came down. its something used a lot in basketball as well. Massive concentration on the ball, rather than the player doing fancy moves.

So you think the players should show more initiative during games and be held accountable when they fail to do so.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

So you think the players should show more initiative during games and be held accountable when they fail to do so.

Mmmm. difficult one, some players are better with initiative than others. we have seen Selwood and other great captains show initiative to win games at crucial moments. I think as example, Petracca could be allowed to show initiative to drift towards goals as games are on the line.

Accountable,  we have a core of senior players who have no excuses bar injury or occasional poor form to not perform to a very high standard. Most other things other than a training base seem to be covered. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2021 at 9:00 PM, dworship said:

If you go back several years I've posted previously about a program I was involved in, now more than 20yrs ago (I can hear the young'ns groaning already). I haven't engaged directly with you on the matter but your post prompted me to mention it again. As you have quoted; Coaches don't appear to have an overt influence on performance per say. All this talk about  Game Plan and the programs around "Leading Teams" and "Commando Training" are great for showing what can be done but I've never believed it really takes hold mentally and becomes ingrained "behaviors". What I was taught in the program I did was; if you haven't done the mind training then when you let go of the rudder you will go back to the old habits. Clary was a point in case this year, Burgo had said to him "if you're clear, take three quick steps before releasing the ball". I saw this implemented a few times in games to great effect and then gradually saw Clary revert to habit. The follow up techniques to support this change are not being taught.

Most on here would say; well that's a coaching problem. But you don't know what you don't know. Binman you have done some great reading/research/posting on the subject so I'll challenge you to pursue my comments by looking at Coach Nick Saban of Alabama Crimson Tide football team and the record in the 7 or so years before he arrived. Why has he been so successful since? I'll give you a hint, they invested in a program that is more focused on individual performance (and no it doesn't give up team focus). Yes, the same program I did 20yrs ago is still being taught to the new players in 2020. I'll leave you with a snippet from Saben. 

 

Thanks Dworship, interesting stuff (the post and the clip).

My takeaways are:

  • It reinforces the importance of coaching, however as you suggest more in terms of the importance of coaching as it relates to the development of players, particularly personal development 
  • Nick Saban does not explicitly make this point but implies that the development of players is a team effort, with the involvement of range of coaches and key staff
  • Nick Saban emphasizes that helping players develop than elite mindset is critical - they need to have 'champion' mindset
  • The top of the pyramid (the team goal) is not winning a championship - it is everyone being the best they can be, a champion team 9and a team of champions?) and a winning mindset (eg dominating their opponents).
  • The implication being winning will take care of itself with these other things in place
  • Saban doesn't mention himself as one of the key parts of the winning 'pyramid' or things about tactics, game style, technique etc etc (he might have them as elements, he just didn't mention them)
  • Your post and the Saban clip reinforce the good points that Deespencer made about success being a function of any number of detail, samll and lareg - eg admin, governance, resourcing, facilities, development, etc etc

And finally, perhaps it is is confirmation bias, but it also reinforces that the key element of success is the players.

As Suban notes ,it is the exception, not the norm that some people want to be the very best they can be and strive for excellence.

Of course development is critical but the base he is working from is players who want to be the best. Good development program gives players the best chance of realising that goal - but no amount of development will make up for a lack of personal drive. Which is why elite sports put so much emphasis in the drafting process on character.

And the other related point is development and indeed tools such as mindfulness area all about preparing the players for optimal performance on game day. Development as investment.

But once the whistle blows it is pretty much all down to the players to ensure their performance reflects that investment and they perform at their optimal level.

Edited by binman
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Mmmm. difficult one, some players are better with initiative than others. we have seen Selwood and other great captains show initiative to win games at crucial moments. I think as example, Petracca could be allowed to show initiative to drift towards goals as games are on the line.

Accountable,  we have a core of senior players who have no excuses bar injury or occasional poor form to not perform to a very high standard. Most other things other than a training base seem to be covered. 

HFF When  a Player reaches a standard ( elite) as Trac has displayed last season  Coaches encourage Them to use their initiative and it just comes naturally with the champions and A graders of the game. "Allowed" is not the mantra but expected of these stars. When we get a dozen of our players able  to do this in the team environment and instinct rather than stilted and rehearsed moves we will be a team of speed and skill and the middle tier will be dragged along on this ride like the lesser lights at the Tigers are now. 
Each player knows his role within the team but all are given leeway And expected to create play for the teams benefit.

We will play like Hawks did and be on the move looking for opportunitues to kick goals or get out of trouble down back or breakaway on the wing with 3 bounces!

Snd it will happen on the run at some speed and precision. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


As many have posted - the coach has to train and select the "right" players, but once the game starts it's mostly up to the selected players to deliver the result. 

I think we've lacked on-field in game leadership over the years.  Jones and Viney seem to be introverts and focus on their own game rather than directing the traffic - sure they may think they "lead by example" but it's not enough.

I think the sometimes maligned Jordan Lewis probably gave us a lot in this area - I note we were 12-7 in 2017 and 16-8 in 2018 when he played.  I think his contribution may have been undervalued in those years - including by me - because he wasn't the player he once was and didn't always go.

Now I think the backline is well placed with May and Lever.

I think Max is a respected and very capable leader at providing team social cohesion but I'm not confident about his ability to be the general in the midfield and direct traffic.  Petracca and Oliver are tremendous players but are they going to co-ordinate the action?  I think probably Brayshaw is the man most likely in this area to have the required qualities - hopefully with full length games he can return to his best position as part of the midfield rotation and be in a position to direct.

I think part of the FD love for AVB are his leadership attributes but can he command a best 22 spot on output?

Melksham was the leader of a very inexperienced forward line in 2020 (as evidenced by his role as stand-in team captain) and that's possibly why he retained his position despite some very ordinary form.  For all his playing limitations ANB is possibly the man most likely to have the personality and intelligence lead in this area, but again can he command a best 22 spot on output?  Maybe Ben Brown can bring a major contribution down there. 

Until these on field leaders emerge and direct I think we will continue to struggle with consistency.

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, binman said:

Thanks Dworship, interesting stuff (the post and the clip).

My takeaways are:

  • It reinforces the importance of coaching, however as you suggest more in terms of the importance of coaching as it relates to the development of players, particularly personal development 
  • Nick Saban does not explicitly make this point but implies that the development of players is a team effort, with the involvement of range of coaches and key staff
  • Nick Saban emphasizes that helping players develop than elite mindset is critical - they need to have 'champion' mindset
  • The top of the pyramid (the team goal) is not winning a championship - it is everyone being the best they can be, a champion team 9and a team of champions?) and a winning mindset (eg dominating their opponents).
  • The implication being winning will take care of itself with these other things in place
  • Saban doesn't mention himself as one of the key parts of the winning 'pyramid' or things about tactics, game style, technique etc etc (he might have them as elements, he just didn't mention them)
  • Your post and the Saban clip reinforce the good points that Deespencer made about success being a function of any number of detail, samll and lareg - eg admin, governance, resourcing, facilities, development, etc etc

And finally, perhaps it is is confirmation bias, but it also reinforces that the key element of success is the players.

As Suban notes ,it is the exception, not the norm that some people want to be the very best they can be and strive for excellence.

Of course development is critical but the base he is working from is players who want to be the best. Good development program gives players the best chance of realising that goal - but no amount of development will make up for a lack of personal drive. Which is why elite sports put so much emphasis in the drafting process on character.

And the other related point is development and indeed tools such as mindfulness area all about preparing the players for optimal performance on game day. Development as investment.

But once the whistle blows it is pretty much all down to the players to ensure their performance reflects that investment and they perform at their optimal level.

Thanks Binman, I haven't looked but it would be interesting find a clip of Saban talking about the program today. The "Tide" certainly turned their results around quickly and have continued to be one of the most dominant teams in the highly competative College Football scene. This has meant they can attract highend talent every year and the system and results become self perpetuating. The football department program generates profits for the University of between $20million and $30million a year. As I've been writing this Bama have finished as the Champions for the seventh time in 13 years. We should be so lucky. There is some talk about Saban retiring but I think the team will have continued success becuase of the program.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, dworship said:

Thanks Binman, I haven't looked but it would be interesting find a clip of Saban talking about the program today. The "Tide" certainly turned their results around quickly and have continued to be one of the most dominant teams in the highly competative College Football scene. This has meant they can attract highend talent every year and the system and results become self perpetuating. The football department program generates profits for the University of between $20million and $30million a year. As I've been writing this Bama have finished as the Champions for the seventh time in 13 years. We should be so lucky. There is some talk about Saban retiring but I think the team will have continued success becuase of the program.

I wonder why Saban didn't reach the same heights as an NFL coach?

Quote

 

“Well, the day I landed in Miami and went to the first press conference,” Saban said Thursday evening, according to AL.com. “I started to realize the difference between the NFL then and what the NFL was like before when I was in it with Bill Belichick from 1991-94 in Cleveland, before we had free agency, before the media had infiltrated sorta everything that was happening. I guess right then.”

That wasn’t a big enough warning sign to leave South Beach right away, however. There was another outlier that drove him to leave South Beach: the inability to control his own destiny. When Drew Brees failed his physical with Miami, he ended up in New Orleans and the Dolphins signed Daunte Culpepper. (Hint: that didn’t work.)

He stayed for two seasons before infamously departing for Alabama.

“When that happened, I said I can’t control my destiny here,” Saban said. “I can’t control my destiny here. There’s too many things that, no matter how hard I work or no matter what I do, I can control my destiny better in college by working hard and making good choices and decisions and creating a good program for players.

 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/heres-why-nick-saban-knew-he-wasnt-a-fit-for-the-nfl/

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...