Our Clubs Best Midfielder of the 21st Century

[picket fence 15,080]

23 hours ago, A F said:

Clayton Oliver by quite a way...

Actually... Quite a long way!

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

Lazy journalism... this article was done last year with minor updates. They couldn't even be bothered to update the games played with Jones. I believe he's currently sitting on 294 and Oliver is on 99 games not 82 as mentioned in the article. 

[BDA 19,992]

Top 3:

1. Clayton Oliver (and he can get even better)

2. Daylight

3. Jones (3 bluey's and almost 300 games)

[BDA 19,992]

A few of the high draft selections since 2000. Fair to say didn’t go as planned and goes a long way to explaining the paucity of options when discussing our best midfielder this century. Thankfully our recruitment has improved recently with Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw.

The less said about pick 4 the better. 

1 – Tom Scully (2009)

2 – Jack Trengove (2009)

4 – Cale Morton (2007), Jimmy Toumpas (2012)

11 – Jordan Gysberts (2009)

13 –Matthew Bate (2004)

16 –Scott Thompson (2000)

17 – Sam Blease (2008)

19 –James Strauss (2008)

[Slartibartfast 15,747]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned James McDonald. Captain, All Australian and a much underrated midfielder, Junior deserves to be in this discussion.

Yze and Johnstone as well but they were perhaps not the pure midfielders for consideration.  I think there is always a tendency to remember players as they were at the end of their careers and hence current players are favoured but McDonald was top shelf. 
 

Having said that I think Oliver wins but Petracca will challenge. 

[drdrake 3,035]

29 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Top 3:

1. Clayton Oliver (and he can get even better)

2. Daylight

3. Jones (3 bluey's and almost 300 games)

Love to see Oliver really start to hurt sides by foot.  There was one game this year might have been V North where he was bursting away from the contest and kicking the ball, that was the most damaging game I have seen him play.

Like most on this post have said, we have really lacked any high quality midfield group.  If this current group Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Langdon, Brayshaw, Harmes, Sparrow, AVB and the rest can start to play more team football with better structure they have the talent to be an extremely good group if they keep playing the same selfish way it will be a waste.

[Mono 454]

On 12/28/2020 at 8:37 PM, Pickett2Jackson said:

Jones has never made the AA squad of 40.

He has been a warrior for us, but if you're a great team a player like Jones is either your 7th or 8th best mid or hes in the seconds.

Jones was never an A grader. A solid B grader in a very poor side for years.

[58er 5,607]

4 hours ago, Mono said:

Jones was never an A grader. A solid B grader in a very poor side for years.

If he was then it was  B+
Good/ great players are often underrrated because of the poor team results. Jonesy improved IMO from a B grader when Roos joined to an A- inskills and team football.

Trac went from a B or B + last season to an A grader in 2020.

Gawn May and Oliver had pretty much A grade seasons in 2020 while I have reservations with some of the team aspect of our midfielders I expect that to be resolved by Yze as our midfield Coach.

[dice 566]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:13 PM, A F said:

Clayton Oliver by quite a way...

Rubbish. Up to this point, Oliver is no better than Yze. Here is a little comparison (21st century stats only):

	OLIVER	YZE
GAMES	99	177
GOALS	29	196
ALL AUSTRALIAN	1 (2018 on the bench)	1 (2002 on the wing)
BROWNLOW (BEST)	=9th (2020)	=3rd (2002)

And Yze was definitely a better kick than "scrubber" Oliver....by "quite a way".

[tiers 2,761]

On 12/30/2020 at 9:04 AM, Better days ahead said:

Top 3:

1. Clayton Oliver (and he can get even better)

2. Daylight

3. Jones (3 bluey's and almost 300 games)

+1. For full time midfielders in the heat of the action they cannot be bettered in our team.

For pure class ball winning ability Clarrie is the best I have seen in 60 years. It is a pity that the team has not been coached to take better advantage of his abilities to maximise the value of his disposals.

[Deemania since 56 6,130]

On 12/27/2020 at 7:41 PM, rjay said:

An article on the AFL site today list who they think is the best midfielder for each club so far in the 21st century.

They listed Nathan Jones as ours...personally I think it's Clayton Oliver.

Nathan gets votes for longevity but Clayton is an AA mid and has also been consistently good which to me gives him the points.

Nathan Jones (286 games from 2006-present)

Some Demons had greater highs – think Clayton Oliver, Adem Yze, Cameron Bruce, Brownlow medallist Shane Woewodin or Travis Johnstone – but none performed as consistently or purely as a midfielder for longer than Jones. He's a triple Keith 'Bluey' Truscott medallist, a former club captain and could pass David Neitz next year as Melbourne's most-capped player. Jones was the most dependable Dee through the club's dark era that they only emerged from in recent seasons. Oliver will inherit this mantle but has played only 83 games. The other contender was James McDonald, another tireless worker who played 251 times for Melbourne, won two best and fairests and was an All-Australian in 2006. - Marc McGowan

Interesting and valid array, RJ. I'd add Greg Wells and Hassa Mann to this list of Demon midfielders - both displayed exceptional skills over long intervals for the mighty Dees. Denis Clarke was another-ee who showed great talent.

[forever demons 1,801]

On 1/1/2021 at 12:49 PM, Mono said:

Jones was never an A grader. A solid B grader in a very poor side for years.

Put Jones in a good team he could have been anything,instead he had to carry a bunch of muppets on his back

[forever demons 1,801]

31 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Interesting and valid array, RJ. I'd add Greg Wells and Hassa Mann to this list of Demon midfielders - both displayed exceptional skills over long intervals for the mighty Dees. Denis Clarke was another-ee who showed great talent.

Wells and Hassa were fantastic ,will never get denis clarke bursting from centre and drop kicking goals at the G

[DeeSpencer 23,084]

Hard to know how to judge Yze. He had some terrific seasons. Led the league in kicks and was a beautiful kick too. But he wasn’t a superstar wing to such a level that he compares with the on ballers.

I think Jones is being underrated. He was heavily tagged at times and his kicking in his prime was really underrated because it started poorly and has tailed off. He would’ve had at least one AA in a mid table team.

Oliver’s already reached a level equal to or better than Jones’s best but he’s plateaued the last two seasons. He has to use the ball better by hand and foot. He can’t be big numbers and low impact. If the hot potato at the stoppages isn’t cut out of his game immediately this year then it’s bad news for his career path. 

[drdrake 3,035]

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

Oliver’s already reached a level equal to or better than Jones’s best but he’s plateaued the last two seasons. He has to use the ball better by hand and foot. He can’t be big numbers and low impact. If the hot potato at the stoppages isn’t cut out of his game immediately this year then it’s bad news for his career path. 

This is how I sum up Oliver, no issues getting the ball but at some stage he needs to start hurting teams.  Petracca is our most valuable and important midfielder.

I think the Midfield group of White, Yze, Leoncille, Rigoni, Johnstone, Woewoden, MacDonald (A & J), Powell, and Bruce are a mile ahead of any midfield group we have had in the last 21 years.  Pretty hard to argue considering this group took us to our last GF appearance and 5 years of finals.  

Our current mids have achieved little, underperformed and more concerned about individual performance then team.

[Dr.D 1,771]

5 hours ago, dice said:

Rubbish. Up to this point, Oliver is no better than Yze. Here is a little comparison (21st century stats only):

	OLIVER	YZE
GAMES	99	177
GOALS	29	196
ALL AUSTRALIAN	1 (2018 on the bench)	1 (2002 on the wing)
BROWNLOW (BEST)	=9th (2020)	=3rd (2002)

And Yze was definitely a better kick than "scrubber" Oliver....by "quite a way".

yeah. no.

Yze was a great player but he's the icing on the top of the cake sort of player. not the cake. 

[Deemania since 56 6,130]

2 hours ago, forever demons said:

Put Jones in a good team he could have been anything,instead he had to carry a bunch of muppets on his back

Jonesy in his prime did just that - and had to develop the 'long bomb' to get these teams up into the forward line, and that quantum leap to be in two places at once just cannot be done. With a slightly stronger team array, Jones could have been 'something particularly special' back then and into the 'now' at his sunset, rather than be seen as a mere 'special' player across the past couple of seasons. Jones' sacrifices have been enormous for the MFC.

[Deemania since 56 6,130]

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

yeah. no.

Yze was a great player but he's the icing on the top of the cake sort of player. not the cake. 

I'd suggest that he could be the 'cake' as a c

 

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

This is how I sum up Oliver, no issues getting the ball but at some stage he needs to start hurting teams.  Petracca is our most valuable and important midfielder.

How close are we to having that degree of reliability in the midfield? Gosh! It could be something phenomenal! The supports seem to be there now; 'hurting teams' and 'mongrel' from Oliver and Tracca combined might be a revelation. 

[drdrake 3,035]

47 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd suggest that he could be the 'cake' as a c

 

How close are we to having that degree of reliability in the midfield? Gosh! It could be something phenomenal! The supports seem to be there now; 'hurting teams' and 'mongrel' from Oliver and Tracca combined might be a revelation. 

Just to clarify, when I mentioned hurting teams nothing to do with physicality, it is improving his disposal to enable him to get the ball into more advantageous positions, for opposition to think that every time he gets the Footy it will set up Melbourne for a scoring opportunity.  There is no questioning Oliver's ability to win the Football, the biggest question mark is what he does with it. 

[forever demons 1,801]

2 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Jonesy in his prime did just that - and had to develop the 'long bomb' to get these teams up into the forward line, and that quantum leap to be in two places at once just cannot be done. With a slightly stronger team array, Jones could have been 'something particularly special' back then and into the 'now' at his sunset, rather than be seen as a mere 'special' player across the past couple of seasons. Jones' sacrifices have been enormous for the MFC.

I realy hope they get him to 300 games if ever a player deserves the honour its him

[Binmans PA 25,923]

13 hours ago, dice said:

Rubbish. Up to this point, Oliver is no better than Yze. Here is a little comparison (21st century stats only):

	OLIVER	YZE
GAMES	99	177
GOALS	29	196
ALL AUSTRALIAN	1 (2018 on the bench)	1 (2002 on the wing)
BROWNLOW (BEST)	=9th (2020)	=3rd (2002)

And Yze was definitely a better kick than "scrubber" Oliver....by "quite a way".

Nonsense. One played on the outside and one drives our midfield and has done since his second season.

[Pates 9,536]

Oliver has the ability to be our best by the end of our career (potentially go down as a legend of the club) but right now he is not our best midfielder of the 21st century. Still plenty for him to work on, currently a great clearance player and gets plenty of the ball, but he needs to be more damaging, he needs to start kicking goals, and his kicking needs to go up a gear. To clarify I think he will improve in ALL of these areas, but pound for pound currently I'd have Yze, Junior Mac, Jones, Bruce, Green, and then others who you question "are they forward or mid" such as Petracca and Flash ahead of him as best midfielder of the century.

Give it to as early as the end of this year and that could well change.

[Smokey 4,115]

14 hours ago, dice said:

Rubbish. Up to this point, Oliver is no better than Yze. Here is a little comparison (21st century stats only):

	OLIVER	YZE
GAMES	99	177
GOALS	29	196
ALL AUSTRALIAN	1 (2018 on the bench)	1 (2002 on the wing)
BROWNLOW (BEST)	=9th (2020)	=3rd (2002)

And Yze was definitely a better kick than "scrubber" Oliver....by "quite a way".

This is absolute nonsense ... by "quite a way" 

[58er 5,607]

9 hours ago, drdrake said:

This is how I sum up Oliver, no issues getting the ball but at some stage he needs to start hurting teams.  Petracca is our most valuable and important midfielder.

I think the Midfield group of White, Yze, Leoncille, Rigoni, Johnstone, Woewoden, MacDonald (A & J), Powell, and Bruce are a mile ahead of any midfield group we have had in the last 21 years.  Pretty hard to argue considering this group took us to our last GF appearance and 5 years of finals.  

Our current mids have achieved little, underperformed and more concerned about individual performance then team.

Agree and Yze will need to change our stats stars phobia (except for Trac who just instinctively shows great disposal and team traits). Clarrie  and Jack need to change and Harmes needs to return in form in the midfield and I feel that both Sparrow and Jordon are waiting in the wings impatiently for their turn

To help our team as well the likes of Salem and even Bowey and Laurie may get Yzes nod  to cameos Where and when considered necessary or and/or appropriate.

[Doug Reemer 897]

On 12/27/2020 at 8:11 PM, rjay said:

An article on the AFL site today list who they think is the best midfielder for each club so far in the 21st century.

They listed Nathan Jones as ours...personally I think it's Clayton Oliver.

Nathan gets votes for longevity but Clayton is an AA mid and has also been consistently good which to me gives him the points.

Nathan Jones (286 games from 2006-present)

Some Demons had greater highs – think Clayton Oliver, Adem Yze, Cameron Bruce, Brownlow medallist Shane Woewodin or Travis Johnstone – but none performed as consistently or purely as a midfielder for longer than Jones. He's a triple Keith 'Bluey' Truscott medallist, a former club captain and could pass David Neitz next year as Melbourne's most-capped player. Jones was the most dependable Dee through the club's dark era that they only emerged from in recent seasons. Oliver will inherit this mantle but has played only 83 games. The other contender was James McDonald, another tireless worker who played 251 times for Melbourne, won two best and fairests and was an All-Australian in 2006. - Marc McGowan

In his prime. 2012-2016 Jones would of walked in and started in any midfield in the AFL.