Are we finished yet?

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

The Cedric Cox noted above pursuit suggests we are using a list spot for a DFA leaving 2 spots available after Lockhart's promotion. 

This strengths my hunch we will take 2 new draftees and we will convert our 4 picks (18, 19, 28 and 50) into the best two we can get.  Otherwise 28 and 50 are wasted. 

[Demon Head 250]

15 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The Cedric Cox noted above pursuit suggests we are using a list spot for a DFA leaving 2 spots available after Lockhart's promotion. 

This strengths my hunch we will take 2 new draftees and we will convert our 4 picks (18, 19, 28 and 50) into the best two we can get.  Otherwise 28 and 50 are wasted. 

Alternatively, we might be going after Cedric Cox for him to trial as a possible Pre-Season Supplemental Selection in the same way that Harley Bennell tried out last year.

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

26 minutes ago, Demon Head said:

Alternatively, we might be going after Cedric Cox for him to trial as a possible Pre-Season Supplemental Selection in the same way that Harley Bennell tried out last year.

I interpreted the 2 year guaranteed offer as coming straight onto the list rather than a 'lets see how you go' offer.  May have misinterpreted the guarantee. 

I guess a player could be guaranteed 2 years on the rookie list but there would be a bit of a difference in pay.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[spirit of norm smith 12,888]

Unlikely to look at any DFA but you never say never in AFL terms. I think we will put 3 players in the draft then a rookie. Leave a spot open. 

[DeeSpencer 23,110]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The Cedric Cox noted above pursuit suggests we are using a list spot for a DFA leaving 2 spots available after Lockhart's promotion. 

This strengths my hunch we will take 2 new draftees and we will convert our 4 picks (18, 19, 28 and 50) into the best two we can get.  Otherwise 28 and 50 are wasted. 

Don’t think so. Any Cox or other DFA pursuit would’ve been before we locked in the last 5 guys including promoting Lockhart. Cox is probably rare as a delisted free agent worth a gamble on 2 years. Most other names available look like supplemental list types. 
 

If we had secured Cox we could’ve just kept Lockhart on the rookie list. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

11 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Don’t think so. Any Cox or other DFA pursuit would’ve been before we locked in the last 5 guys including promoting Lockhart. Cox is probably rare as a delisted free agent worth a gamble on 2 years. Most other names available look like supplemental list types.

If we had secured Cox we could’ve just kept Lockhart on the rookie list. 

Why?  The DFA selection period hasn't opened yet.  It opens on Thursday. 

We will only know of DFA's successfully pursued later in the week (or when their is another DFA selection period).

Lockhart deserves his promotion.  There are other ways to create list spots if that is your reason for not promoting him.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[DeeSpencer 23,110]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Why?  The DFA selection period hasn't opened yet.  It opens on Thursday. 

We will only know of DFA's successfully pursued later in the week (or when their is another DFA selection period).

Lockhart deserves his promotion.  There are other ways to create list spots if that is your reason for not promoting him.

Clubs and managers would’ve been surveying the delistings and uncontracted players for weeks now, with the ability to trade a token pick for anyone we really wanted in the trade period. Anyone actually in demand will get picked up soon, but the most likely situation is doing what we did with Brown and Corey Wagner, having them pull out of the drafts and signing them after.

Yes we could create list spots other ways but Lockhart was the most obvious. The promotion on a one year deal is just a token gesture.

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

35 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Clubs and managers would’ve been surveying the delistings and uncontracted players for weeks now, with the ability to trade a token pick for anyone we really wanted in the trade period. Anyone actually in demand will get picked up soon, but the most likely situation is doing what we did with Brown and Corey Wagner, having them pull out of the drafts and signing them after.

Yes we could create list spots other ways but Lockhart was the most obvious. The promotion on a one year deal is just a token gesture.

Of course clubs have been surveying delisted players for weeks.  That is different than what you posted earlier saying a DFA would be locked in before contracting 5 players. 

[Grr-owl 1,075]

23 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Might be a dumb question, but given the list minimum is 36 (37 inc. rookies) and we only have to use 1 pick this year, could there also be a chance we try to bundle up 18,19 and 28 into a top 10 pick and only take 1 draftee (aside from Lockhart)?

Doesn't seem super likely, but it's another option yeah?

Curious: Is it more likely to get us the player that fills our needs? I assume the wing or speedy HBF is what we're looking for...

[Turner 1,482]

10 hours ago, Lampers said:

My guess is Melbourne will be keeping spot on the list open for after draft day, be them main list or rookie, given the unusually high amount of quality available from DFA given the list shrinkages, plus the precedent of prior years where Melbourne have added players just before the season and mid year.

I think this means we will see some more delistings, perhaps Bedford or Chandler or maybe KK as I doubt any would be snapped up by another club so Melbourne could just redraft them ultimately.

I also guess that Melbourne will be trying to take advantage on draft day during live trading if they can’t package two picks into one earlier pick to move up the order prior to the draft.

I wouldn’t be surprised if another club is willing to trade for Melbourne’s picks live during the draft when they know it will for sure get them a “slider”, and in exchange give up something potentially better in the 2021 draft.

The risk for Melbourne is other clubs knowing Melbourne may not really want to use some of their 2020 picks and so trying to low ball for them.

As confusing as the live trading and future pick trading and rule restrictions are for the average Joe, it really does open up possibilities and make the Mahoneys and Taylors or the world work for their money.

I reckon the next step is allowing just drafted players to be part of a trading window immediately after the draft concludes. The drafted player should have no say in proceedings. AFLPA surely can’t have a problem with that as 24 hours earlier the player had no choice in where they were drafted to so it’s just an extension and it will create even more opportunity for list managers to improve their list.

these guys signed a contract extension yesterday and KK still has 1yr to go on his existing deal but has agreed with the club to step away from games and training due to his concussion we believe

[Nascent 7,234]

On 11/23/2020 at 6:19 PM, Dannyz said:

The club has tried unsuccessfully to convince Cedric Cox that we like his talents and could guarantee him 2 years. Complicated situation with family in remote Halls Creek. 

Officially delisted by the lions today and sadly for him it sounds like he hasn't got any interest from the WA clubs. 

[Freddy Fuschia 661]

Now that KK has retired and is off our books, Jay Lockhart gets uplifted to the Primary List and Aaron Nietschke can be automatically rookied, this is the scenario -

• 34 players on the Primary List (max 38) 

• 3 on the Rookie A List (maximum 6) 

• 1 on the Rookie B List (max 2)

We have some additional options in the drafts depending on how the picks fall. 

[Whispering_Jack 27,960]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:03 PM, Freddy Fuschia said:

 

Now that KK has retired and is off our books, Jay Lockhart gets uplifted to the Primary List and Aaron Nietschke can be automatically rookied, this is the scenario -

• 34 players on the Primary List (max 38) 

• 3 on the Rookie A List (maximum 6) 

• 1 on the Rookie B List (max 2)

We have some additional options in the drafts depending on how the picks fall. 

I didn’t notice until I saw this article that James Jordan has been put on the rookie list. This appears to have implications as to the club’s list size and the number of players it can select at the draft. With Jordan now on the rookie list, the scenario is -

• 33 players on the Primary List (max 38) 

• 4 on the Rookie A List (maximum 6) 

• 1 on the Rookie B List (max 2)

AFL list changes 2020: Every club’s ins and outs after first list lodgement

These are the changes ~

MELBOURNE

INS:

Ben Brown (Trade)

Jay Lockhart (Promoted rookie)

OUTS:

Harley Bennell (Not retained)

Kyle Dunkley (Not retained)

Mitchell Hannan (Trade)

James Jordan (*Delisted, moving to rookie list)

Kade Kolodjashnij (Retired)

Oscar McDonald (Delisted)

Aaron Nietschke (*Delisted, moving to rookie list )

Braydon Preuss (Trade)

Corey Wagner (Not retained)

Joshua Wagner (Delisted)

 

[spirit of norm smith 12,888]

I didn’t read anywhere about James Jordan moving to the rookie list. Anyone seen this? 

[Older demon 2,166]

6 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I didn’t read anywhere about James Jordan moving to the rookie list. Anyone seen this? 

Yes widely reported and initial thought is that we will take our 4 draft picks to the big dance and use them.

[Freddy Fuschia 661]

39 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I didn’t read anywhere about James Jordan moving to the rookie list. Anyone seen this? 

It’s reported in the article which WJ linked. The ins and outs etc are as quoted from the article. So potentially we have 5 picks in the draft and will possibly hold one back for later drafts.

[Neil Crompton 4,716]

Can someone please tell me what picks we have in the 2021 draft? 

[Kent 2,581]

3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Can someone please tell me what picks we have in the 2021 draft? 

18.19.28.50

[Gawndog98 306]

Surprised to see Jordon moved to the rookie list, I think it now means that we have the space to use our 4 picks at the draft this year and can sign a delisted free agent.

[58er 5,607]

3 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I didn’t notice until I saw this article that James Jordan has been put on the rookie list. This appears to have implications as to the club’s list size and the number of players it can select at the draft. With Jordan now on the rookie list, the scenario is -

• 33 players on the Primary List (max 38) 

• 4 on the Rookie A List (maximum 6) 

• 1 on the Rookie B List (max 2)

AFL list changes 2020: Every club’s ins and outs after first list lodgement

These are the changes ~

MELBOURNE

INS:

Ben Brown (Trade)

Jay Lockhart (Promoted rookie)

OUTS:

Harley Bennell (Not retained)

Kyle Dunkley (Not retained)

Mitchell Hannan (Trade)

James Jordan (*Delisted, moving to rookie list)

Kade Kolodjashnij (Retired)

Oscar McDonald (Delisted)

Aaron Nietschke (*Delisted, moving to rookie list )

Braydon Preuss (Trade)

Corey Wagner (Not retained)

Joshua Wagner (Delisted)

 

Not sure about the difference of delisted and Not retained. Guess it's ones from the list of 2020 and others from the Rookie lis/s.

Gives us a chance for 4 draftees if we want and I additional pre-season player or 3 and 2 or 1 as we desire. Probably depends upon anyone in the 50 area we deem as potential for 2021 for development.

Wise options From our Club.

[58er 5,607]

On 11/24/2020 at 3:00 PM, Grr-owl said:

Curious: Is it more likely to get us the player that fills our needs? I assume the wing or speedy HBF is what we're looking for...

HFF HBF also winger plus Outside running mid all in the mix. Outside chance for developing young ruck if one with any ability I guess. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

12 minutes ago, 58er said:

Not sure about the difference of delisted and Not retained. Guess it's ones from the list of 2020 and others from the Rookie lis/s.

Gives us a chance for 4 draftees if we want and I additional pre-season player or 3 and 2 or 1 as we desire. Probably depends upon anyone in the 50 area we deem as potential for 2021 for development.

Wise options From our Club.

'Not Retained' refers to Rookies, 'Delisted' refers to senior list players.

[58er 5,607]

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

'Not Retained' refers to Rookies, 'Delisted' refers to senior list players.

Thanks LH I guessed it when I looked at the list from that post as it worked out.

will be interesting which way will we go and who we pick to improve out list in talent and more direct needs. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

A reminder that while the maximums on lists are:

• 38 for seniors  (currently 33, assuming reports that Jordon has been delisted/rookied are correct)
• 6 for A rookies (currently 4, assuming reports that Jordon has been delisted/rookied are correct)
• 2 for B rookies (currently 1)

The overall total cannot exceed 44.

The minimum for seniors list is 36 so we must add at least 3 from the draft/DFA's

 

Edit:  I will update the 'Contracts' thread when the Jordon move is confirmed by the club.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Mach5 4,482]

It’s worth bearing in mind, that although picks will be pushed back in the draft sequence by NGA selections, later picks will come in as the later draft picks are eaten up.

e.g. While the dogs will select JUH early, it will eat up their pick 26, brining our picks 28 & 50 forward. It will also likely eat up their 33, 41 & 42.

50 will come in more as Port’s 35 & 47 are eaten up for Lachie Jones.

Sydney’s 34, 37, 43 & 48 should all evaporate.

Freo’s 32 will disappear.

GC getting ridiculous concessions stings.

Having said that, we also have to factor the picks clubs receive back as “change” from the points used to match bids, so 50 will likely push back out a bit, but 28 might be in a bit of a sweet spot.

This is something I tried to unsuccessfully articulate last year, but it’s a bit easier now with real world examples; in essence, trading into later picks in this draft may not be such a bad thing. The COVID implications make it even better if you back your talent ID dept to have done the work earlier & better than the opposition.