Dissecting the List

[BW511 2,236]

9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

A grade (excels week to week): Petracca, May
A- (high quality but showing flaws): Gawn, Oliver
B (does a solid job most weeks) : Salem, Viney, Langdon
B- (has the talent but too inconsistent): Weid, Lever, Brayshaw, Harmes
C+ (mixes talent and flaws): Jackson, Rivers, Pickett
C (has some good and bad but can do a job): Hibberd, Melksham, Sparrow
C- (not regularly up to the job): Spargo, Tomlinson, J. Smith, Vanders, Lockhart, T Mc and plenty of others

Unranked: Hore, Petty and the other kids

I'm judging Max harshly for the end of his season and lack of coordination with his mids. Oliver the same, too many games where he didn't impact to be a true A grader right now.

We're too light on for good solid B graders. In 2018 Hibberd, Melksham, Gus, Harmes, Jetta were all solid or better (T Mc) B graders, now they aren't.

Same goes for C graders, there's a whole lot of the list that can't hold their spot in the side. Tomlinson is the only one who does and that's because our defensive depth is rubbish.

I think this is about right.

Gawn and Oliver, whilst decent enough, were not a shadow of their former selves this year.

From the B- list down, there is no guarantee our blokes would win their position, let alone break even (Hibbo & Tomlinson, when back, would be the only ones I'd potentially argue)

Langdon has been a revelation for us, but I doubt he'd be in the top 10 wingers in the league.

[deanox 8,515]

11 hours ago, Elegt said:

You are so far off the mark its not even funny

-lever struggled this year and didn't offer more than frost was offering. C grade at best

-langdon is a b grader-cant kick

-viney is a butcher, would struggle to get a game at Richmond

-brayshaw can only play one position and can't kick, again would be a fringe player at a top side

-hibberd struggled to get a consistent spot in our team this year, c grader

-tomlinson struggled to get a game too-c grader

-harmes couldn't even get a game

-luke jackson and tmac were preferred over press, he has no tank and is a liability once the ball hits ground

 

Sorry but you really need to re analyse the list, we would be winning flags if the list was as good as you're saying 

I think you've missed my point E.

I wasn't saying I rate the list higher, I was saying that his ratings were not consistent with the ranking system/criteria he gave.

For example, Langdon may be a B grader in your mind. I'd probably agree because he is a good player with flaws. But the definition of B grader given was play 10-18 on a list. He is better than that based on hus last 3 years bnf results.

I think Tomlonson is a good ordinary footballer. Career role player, who gets a game more weeks then not. C grade is probably a fair description. But Tomlinson has played 86 of 92 available games in the last 4 years inc 13 of 17 for us this year. Only 12 players at MFC played more games then him. You cannot possibly argue that makes him player 18-30 on a list. By the ranking system provided he has to be called a B grader, regardless of our opinion.

[drdrake 3,035]

Take away the player ratings it doesn't matter, what he said is right our list isn't capable of winning a flag.  Our mids are all very similar good at the contest but we lack the high polished mid, Petracca is close but his disposal by foot needs work.  Our main bal winners struggle to hit targets by foot especially when it really matters Langdon, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca are all prone to butcher the ball by foot.

We have the best Tap ruckman in the competition, yet our clearance work at times is extremely poor.  I rate our midfield unit as a B, based on they are good individually but as a group they don't work for each other and collectively turn the footy over by foot to much.  Add into the this the clearance side we should be dominating and some games we do but other big body midfield groups read of Gawn.  Oliver/Brayshaw/Viney some one needs to be the on field organiser and the others need to listen, I think they are to hang up on their individual game and struggle to work together.  All three are see ball get ball players, they need to start to think about how to work together to create space for each other instead of crowding the ball.

Backline, we have the potential to be a A-Grade backline in 2021, another lockdown small would be great.

Fowardline is a D at at moment just to may holes, KPF, pressure forwards,  mid size forwards don't really offer any defensive pressure.  

4 players away from being a top 4 side, a Key forward, a creative/pressure forward, HFF/Midfielder and high skilled outside mid.

That's why we are looking at Brown, Smith and others they are the type of players we need but we need them to be able to produce something close to their best which I'm not sure they can especially Brown.

Edited October 27, 2020 by drdrake

[Turner 1,482]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

For example, Langdon may be a B grader in your mind. I'd probably agree because he is a good player with flaws. But the definition of B grader given was play 10-18 on a list. He is better than that based on hus last 3 years bnf results.

I think Tomlonson is a good ordinary footballer. Career role player, who gets a game more weeks then not. C grade is probably a fair description. But Tomlinson has played 86 of 92 available games in the last 4 years inc 13 of 17 for us this year. Only 12 players at MFC played more games then him. You cannot possibly argue that makes him player 18-30 on a list. By the ranking system provided he has to be called a B grader, regardless of our opinion.

if you put tomlinson (Key defender as he's being played therefore judged) and langdon on every other clubs lists i think it is at least a 50:50 split probably even less that they feature in that clubs top 10 players, thats just the facts. yes they're solid contributors, yes langdon had a really good year but they dont stand out any more than any other player going around statistically or in an eye test

10 minutes ago, drdrake said:

4 players away from being a top 4 side, a Key forward, a creative/pressure forward, HFF/Midfielder and high skilled outside mid.

That's why we are looking at Brown, Smith and others they are the type of players we need but we need them to be able to produce something close to their best which I'm not sure they can especially Brown.

higgins this year and then pressure is on ANB, spargo, bedford, potentially chandler to earn a deal beyond next year before we throw some cash at tippa to get him off the sinking ship that is essendon

and quinton narkle on two years wouldn't need much coin just wants a chance to prove himself initially and earn the right to ask for some money, would rotate really nicely with trac OR we look internally and give harmes first crack at that role and melky gets one last chance to play it seeing as he's contracted but ideally wouldn't see out the season there even favouring a genuine small and give fritsch that freedom

Edited October 27, 2020 by Turner

[drdrake 3,035]

8 minutes ago, Turner said:

and quinton narkle on two years wouldn't need much coin just wants a chance to prove himself initially and earn the right to ask for some money, would rotate really nicely with trac OR we look internally and give harmes first crack at that role and melky gets one last chance to play it seeing as he's contracted but ideally wouldn't see out the season there even favouring a genuine small and give fritsch that freedom

Harmes is limited as a player, to me doesn't really have the footy smarts, that is why the run with role suited him, his opponent took him to the ball and to Harmes credit once there was good enough to win it.  He has two roles in our side going forward a run with midfielder or a defensive HFF locking down on attacking half backs.  Melksham seems to do what he wants, I can't see him and Fritsch working in the same side unless both improve defensively.

[picket fence 15,046]

14 hours ago, Deesprate said:

Buckenara is spot on. It really is a depressing but accurate assessment. We have been bad for years and a seven year rebuild has changed nothing. Bartlett is delusional about this list. An absolute non negotiable if we are to improve is offload TMac and get B Brown. 

The only thing I disagreed on was his rating of Oliver, who I believe after 2 B&F and All Australian is clearly A Grade! Trac almost but needs another season of Top Footy.

[Diamond_Jim 11,676]

I think it's easier to rank groups than players.

Backline.... medium to good... suspect players.. Hibberd (age) Jetta (age and form) Smith/Tomlinson (form)

Midfield poor to medium .. very good players but rarely function as a unit

Forward line... Poor... suspect players... All for well discussed reasons but at least most have demonstrable upside. Increasingly question marks over Melksham and AVB plus the Hunt/Hannan/ANB/Spargo band

So on that basis our list isn't great but it has potential for the right coach.

It's definitely the best we have had for a very very long time.

 

[Fat Tony 4,350]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:22 PM, Turner said:

RATING THE LIST

A-grade: Gawn

B: Brayshaw, Fritsch, Lever, May, T. McDonald, Melksham, Oliver, Petracca, Salem, Viney, Weideman

C: Baker, Brown, Hannan, Harmes, Hibberd, Hore, Hunt, Jetta, Jones, Kolodjashnij, Langdon, Lockhart, O. McDonald, Neal-Bullen, Preuss, Smith, Tomlinson, Vandenberg

Developing (with A-B grade potential): Jackson, Pickett, Rivers

Developing: Bedford, Bradtke, Chandler, Jordan, Nietschke, Petty, Spargo, Sparrow

WHAT THE RATINGS MEAN:

A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list

B: Top 10-18 player on most lists

C: An 18-30 player on a list

Developing: Aged 21 or under

 

imo

TMac/Melk --> C

May, Petracca --> A

Petty --> Dev (A/B)

pretty hard to argue with the rest

Goodwin is a genius to take a list with only one A Grader to the flag. 

[Binmans PA 25,893]

I hope that muppet Buckenara doesn't get another gig in the Murdoch press this year. Hasn't got a clue.

[dworship 3,342]

That was almost as funny as reading some of the game day threads.

My ratings - Media Experts - F

Demonland Experts - D (with a small apology to Dee Spencer and one or two others who have the occasional insightful opinion)

Some very ordinary stuff that has not aged well. No doubt the posters of which will make excuses regarding the comments being back in 2020. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Kudos goes to the development, nurturing, coaching and conditioning team at the MFC that has allowed so many players to understand their role, perform it and not be weighted down by opinion and impatience.

My Rating of the list - PREMIERS

[mauriesy 6,783]

36 minutes ago, A F said:

Hasn't got a clue.

Neither do some of our own posters when you read back through the thread. Very pessimistic for less than a year ago.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

11 hours ago, dworship said:

That was almost as funny as reading some of the game day threads.

My ratings - Media Experts - F

Demonland Experts - D (with a small apology to Dee Spencer and one or two others who have the occasional insightful opinion)

Some very ordinary stuff that has not aged well. No doubt the posters of which will make excuses regarding the comments being back in 2020. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Kudos goes to the development, nurturing, coaching and conditioning team at the MFC that has allowed so many players to understand their role, perform it and not be weighted down by opinion and impatience.

My Rating of the list - PREMIERS

Smart posting dworship. Allows everyone on Demonland to assume that you're thinking of ourselves as one of the "one or two others".