Oliver Rumours on Footy Classified

[binman 37,954]

4 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

From memory, this happened last year around exit interview time. Rumours of players wanting out. None of which eventuated.

Sometimes I think the issue is as simple as a player expressing disappointment about something in an exit interview which then get spread as a rumour and mutates slightly ("Petracca was upset we didn't make finals" becomes "Petracca's upset at Goodwin that we didn't make finals", for example). 

I usually take the view that where there's smoke there's fire, but nothing came of any of this last year so I am sceptical of these "X wants out" rumours.

Spot on Titan. And also Nudge. Totally agree with your comments.

A few random related thoughts:

• The culture in footy is never make excuses and blame injuries or external factors such as draws etc for poor results. Be that as it may there is no denying we got shafted this year by the AFL in terms of where and when we had to play (no coincidence this was highlighted in the video montage at the sart of the bluey or again by Goody in his speech)
• You don't reckon the players would have royally [censored] off about that? I do. It is bulltish we had to go to Cairns. We play those two game at Metricon or the Gabba and we make finals. Of that i have no doubt. 
• I'm no making excuses, but with the players, all hubbed together and having no space to think or get outside calming voices, it is easy to imagine angst building and thoughts like the Pies would never get treated like that being verbalized
• In any year that the team doesn't meet expectations there is going to be a level of discontent
• In any year, even successful ones, there will be a group of players angry or frustrated with how they have been treated  - maybe feel they have been played out of position, didn't get games they felt they should have, other players selected ahead of them, annoyed at the coach for whatever reason (eg thinking he is playing favorites) etc etc
• That sort of end of season angst has no doubt been the case since 1859, but these days is amplified and made public by social media and the gossip fueled media that feeds off scuttlebutt
• How best for a player these days to make their angst known? - strategically leak it (perhaps by their player manager) to a family member, friend or associate you know is a total gossip and won't be able to resist telling someone
• And having done so, that info will find its way to a footy form where a poster will not be able to resist sharing the tidbit - perhaps to grind an axe, perhaps because of an agenda (eg they hate the coach) or most likely they just like sharing gossip (nothing wrong with that - who doesn't like gossip?)
• This stuff happens every year, and will do so forever - it happened last year with trac for instance and  he signed a new 2 year contract. Go figure

Edited September 24, 2020 by binman

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

34 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Yes I confess I was wondering to myself why I give a [censored].  I think it must be the irony of poster with a nonsensical maths-flavoured palindrome username not being able to add up.  You could try something truly Dadaesque like DogglenelggoD.

Ok that clears up plenty!  So i take you are happy if Jack signed on for 5 years? You seemed to avoid the whole topic and just tried coming up with insults.  Not funny, nor clever.

You talk of irony and you are displaying the opposite of Polyanna yourself.   I did not go out of my way to insult you in the first place though.  I hope you feel aggrieved.

Edited September 24, 2020 by NeveroddoreveN

[Demons11 6,404]

3 minutes ago, KLV said:

I've been saying it for years too Rod! An alternative to your solution is for free agents not allowed to be traded to teams having finished in the top 4, or a team that has won the flag in the last 5 years or similar. Players' Association wouldn't have a bar of it though.

Players association and the players themselves won’t have a bar of it.  Im not a huge fan free agency but now it’s in you can’t restrict players on what clubs they can go to. 

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,107]

4 hours ago, goodwindees said:

What I’m stating is that I’ve been told by an impeccable source that Petracca phoned his Manager and asked, if his Manager thought it would it be possible to get a deal done. His Manager shot the idea down as being totally impossible. 
Now, this may have been a spontaneous call from a highly emotional and at times immature young man, however, I believe it happened and if it did, it demands an immediate inquiry. 
TBH, my sense of this being true is so strong, that if I had Pert or Bartlett’s numbers, I would have contacted them to at least get them to investigate directly with the source. 

Hi goodwindees. I don't think we've spoken on the forum before. Were you given any indication as to when during the season this discussion took place ? I guess I'm just trying to pinpoint whether how the team were travelling at the time could have had anything to do with his enquiry ? 

[binman 37,954]

2 hours ago, Van Demons Land said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not part of Simon Goodwin's fan club but regarding club direction, I've not seen too many post replies suggesting that maybe the players need to look at themselves in this as well. Start with less going to sleep and more killer instinct on field, and the direction goes a long way to being created itself. They didn't turn up against Sydney or Freo and now face the consequences.

This is a good point.

Players might be fine with goody, but the best players might be jack of some of their teamates. 

If I was oliver busting my gut week in, week out I would be far from thrilled with efforts of melksham this year for instance.

And a star like trac  even if not frustrated by his teamstes, might look around and conclude this group aint going to take me to the mountain top, not matter how good a coach goody is.

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

18 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Players association and the players themselves won’t have a bar of it.  Im not a huge fan free agency but now it’s in you can’t restrict players on what clubs they can go to. 

A player is free to go to the club of his choice but he should not be free to that club; it should pay. with draft picks.   

The AFL can continue to deem what that player is worth (based on the deal rather than a silly system of losing club ladder position) and that is the price the receiving club pays

As the FA period is prior to the Trade Period all clubs have their picks in tack so the receiving club will have the currency.

Its a simple change.  It might make the clubs ark up but shouldn't bother the AFLPA or players - they will still get to where they want to go.

[Cards13 9,117]

4 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Clearly there was no deep thought in giving Goodwin an extention.  How has he performed since the extension, 17th, 9th. with question marks on whether he can coach or not still lingering. 

Of course there are qs, same as with 80% of the players. Hindsight is amazing!!

[Cards13 9,117]

2 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

So he'd be roughly 27 by start of next season...add 5 to that and you get 32.  He is not worth a 5 year contract, much like Harmes.  The only players i would consider giving 5 years to are Oliver/Petracca.  None of the rest are worth blind faith. If we are giving out 5 year contracts we may as well extend Goodwin for another few years too.

Not trying to convince anyone here....just don't think Viney is THAT good to extend him playing for MFC for another 5 years.  Players get injured like Tom Mac and then we are stuck with the consequences of ridiculous contract durations.  Harmes got offered 5 years also for no real reason.  List management i have zero trust in currently.  

Never ever ever ever give a player in the late 20s, let alone a player like Viney who is prone to injure and the way they play, a contract of length. Most players are done by 30/31 nowadays sadly.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Tough Kent said:

I exchanged texts with one of the players this morning. I asked him about Clayton and he said it was crap and he asked me where I'd heard the rumour. (He hasn't tuned into any footy related media since Sunday.) When told it was Sam McLure who started the rumour, he said that Sam loves a headline and not to read anything into it.(He then inserted a Pinocchio emoji which I thought looked exactly like Sam.)

How are the players feeling? Obvs not happy but... 

[daisycutter 28,485]

2 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

So he'd be roughly 27 by start of next season...add 5 to that and you get 32.  He is not worth a 5 year contract, much like Harmes.  The only players i would consider giving 5 years to are Oliver/Petracca.  None of the rest are worth blind faith. If we are giving out 5 year contracts we may as well extend Goodwin for another few years too.

Not trying to convince anyone here....just don't think Viney is THAT good to extend him playing for MFC for another 5 years.  Players get injured like Tom Mac and then we are stuck with the consequences of ridiculous contract durations.  Harmes got offered 5 years also for no real reason.  List management i have zero trust in currently.  

no, he'd be 31 in last year of 5 year contract

[layzie 28,693]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

But they might next year.  Contract positions for our highly rated youngsters:

2021 RFA:  Salem.  OOC: Oliver, Wedieman, Rivers and Jackson. 

This year is Salem's 'pre RFA' year when clubs get more in a trade than they will as an FA compensation pick.  eg  Daniher's failed attempt to Sydney last year.

2022:  RFA:  Petracca and Brayshaw .  Next year is their 'pre RFA' year.

imv Goodwin has 2021 or some of those players will walk (if for no other reason than they want success ie regularly contend for a premiership) and we will have little leverage.

My sense is that just making finals next year will not cut it.  We need a really successful first half 2021 to get those players to re-sign, then go deep into the finals.

Watch this space.  If the 2021 OOC players haven't re-signed before the middle of next year we should start to worry.

Oh yeah of course, can only go on a year by year basis really.

At very least regular finals should keep a list together, 2021 make or break. 

[daisycutter 28,485]

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

no, he'd be 31 in last year of 5 year contract

Edit: after reading on i see this has been argued extensively, sorry for adding to it

[deanox 8,565]

1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

Players association and the players themselves won’t have a bar of it.  Im not a huge fan free agency but now it’s in you can’t restrict players on what clubs they can go to. 

You can do a couple of easy things to fix this though. 

Top 4 sides could lose their next pick after the compensation when recruiting a FA (ie say PA win the GF, if PA recruit someone from Essendon and Essendon get an end of first round compensation pick, then PA lose their second round pick. 

If PA have traded that pick out in advance then they lose the equivalent points worth from their prior pick.

So Essendon gain 19 (end of first round), PA lose 37 (their second round pick), or if they have already traded their second round pick in a previous year, then pick 18 (their previous pick) is reduced by 483 points (the value of pick 37), and becomes pick 36.

Then top 4 sides still pay significantly under market value, but they can't double dip.

In addition, then could allow the bottom 6 to have a marginal increase in salary cap for a year (say 2% or $200k). That will help them retain or attract FA's as well.

 

It would definitely help even out the comp, which should be the aim of the AFLPA: so that all players have a chance of winning a flag in their career no matter where they are dragged. 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by deanox

[daisycutter 28,485]

4 minutes ago, deanox said:

You can do a couple of easy things to fix this though. 

Top 4 sides could lose their next pick after the compensation when recruiting a FA (ie say PA win the GF, if PA recruit someone from Essendon and Essendon get an end of first round compensation pick, then PA lose their second round pick. 

If PA have traded that pick out in advance then they lose the equivalent points worth from their prior pick.

So Essendon gain 19 (end of first round), PA lose 37 (their second round pick), or if they have already traded their second round pick in a previous year, then pick 18 (their previous pick) is reduced by 483 points (the value of pick 37), and becomes pick 36.

Then top 4 sides still pay significantly under market value, but they can't double dip.

In addition, then could allow the bottom 6 to have a marginal increase in salary cap for a year (say 2% or $200k). That will help them retain or attract FA's as well.

 

It would definitely help even out the comp.

 

i agree the fa recipient gets too good a deal.

something along your lines or similar is required to "even" it up a bit

i also don't think father/son or academy picks should get a 20% discount. just getting the player and only having to pay in pick values is benefit enough

Edited September 24, 2020 by daisycutter

[Clintosaurus 6,421]

So much jumping at shadows. Must be a few on here who sleep with the light on.

Can't see Trac or Clarry going anywhere. McClure just fishing for someone to go to his beloved Blues. Too many journos think they are recruiters for the club they support.

[Engorged Onion 9,255]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Spot on Titan. And also Nudge. Totally agree with your comments.

A few random related thoughts:

• The culture in footy is never make excuses and blame injuries or external factors such as draws etc for poor results. Be that as it may there is no denying we got shafted this year by the AFL in terms of where and when we had to play (no coincidence this was highlighted in the video montage at the sart of the bluey or again by Goody in his speech)
•  

@binman what was highlighted here?

[Willmoy1947 3,769]

....And a patriarch's son of the Carlton Club walks out because he's sick of all the over expectations put on him, probably by McClure as well

[Pennant St Dee 11,257]

17 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Interesting you only mention this know when a thread is created but never brought it up in  the trade threads??

How much stuff is going to get thrown around between now and trade time Daz

Edited September 24, 2020 by Pennant St Dee

[Binmans PA 25,993]

3 hours ago, Van Demons Land said:

Jack Viney ... Huge loyalty, big commitment ... But holding up a key position on field where a different style and type of midfielder is required. He's too small for the tough style he uses and that's why opposition teams have worked him out and why he's getting caught in possession so often. I like him but he's not the right guy for that position. Not a bad thing if he left and the club was forced to re-added that midfield role by introducing a different dynamic

Agreed. But mostly in the context of first possession midfielder. If he's playing a defensive role, I think he could absolutely slot into our midfield. I think Harmes could do the exact same thing. And both could/should play forward when not playing the defensive midfield role.

2 hours ago, Yokozuna said:

Harmes was 4th last year and 3rd the year before if I am correct.

so his best football is very good.

I want him to stay and play hf/mid, but that is dependent on getting another HBF such as Saad, so they don’t play him down back.

Completely agree with this. I think it's clear Harmes to half back didn't work, so he should be moved into the mid/forward role. I'd even have him on a wing.

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

He went backwards this year but the previous 2 year he improved a significant amount.  All Players have down years throughout their career and he is no different 

Exactly. If we tried playing Weideman as a rover, he'd be useless too. Harmes needs to be played in the right position. The same as Gus. It'd be great if they had more versatility but when the midfield is your go, it's your go.

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

As a team we lack the outside polish. If a Premiership is the only reason to exist then surely one or two or even three of Viney, Harmes and Brayshaw have to be traded. I’d be shopping all of them around and would be shocked if the club wasn’t. If TMac’s body can be got right and you’d think it could he’s a must keep. Add some run and polish, a forward line of Weideman, TMac and Jackson and a couple of quality assistant coaches and we win 4 more games and end up top 4. We’re actually not that far off. In a year when there’s going to be a lot of assistants looking for work surely we can find our next coach. Goodwin has less than a year to get this club where it should be. 

One of those guys has played almost 150 games of rugby and the other two have demonstrated they're capable of playing disciplined midfield footy without him.

[FritschyBusiness 1,455]

17 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I saw a very interesting interview with Oliver either early this year or last year.  He talked a lot about how he doesn't like changing things and how settled he is at the club.  He has his routine, he comes in on his days off and works out in his gym on his machines etc.  The overriding impression I got was of someone who doesn't like changing things and had pretty much grown roots where he was.  I really don't see him wanting to leave. 

This makes me think that the hub life might have been really disruptive for him to get settled and he's just glad the seasons over

[hemingway 7,589]

3 hours ago, Rocky said:

the difference is i don't think we have heard rumours on our players.. apart from hogan, am i forgetting anyone? or maybe thats just cos we didnt have players of the level to be targeted?

Interesting point Rocky. I think all players are on the radar of other clubs and they speak to their managers to get a sense of whether a player has an interest in talking. We have always moved reasonably quickly to lock away for 2-5 seasons our best players. And clearly we have paid market or above market rates to do it. 

At the same time, the footy department seems to have handled retention and contract issues very well over recent years. On most occasions, the club and player have respectfully followed the process and kept differences out of the media. 

It suggests that good relationships exist between all parties. 

[Tony Tea 2,786]

Jack Viney reminds me of Brett Kirk - can't kick, can't handball, can't mark, bl00dy champion.

[Tony Tea 2,786]

3 hours ago, Superunknown said:

Let us disabuse misconceptions about other scuttlebutt!

What, since when did Charles Dickens start commenting on Demonland?

[John Demonic 4,794]

2 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

Jack Viney reminds me of Brett Kirk - can't kick, can't handball, can't mark, bl00dy champion.

Can't speak either ?

[binman 37,954]

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

@binman what was highlighted here?

At the start of the bluey broadcast they had pretty slick video intro with a montage of shots of them getting on and off planes and busses and shots of them arriving at different grounds with text super imposed with stuff like 6 flights, 8 stadiums, 64 bus rides, five states etc.

You can see it here (it is at the very start):