Caroline Wilson on MFC rumblings

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,930]

18 hours ago, A F said:

This is a weak argument IMO. I don't really care about "Melbourne people" running the club. PJ wasn't a "Melbourne person", but he had us going in the right direction.

Ultimately, as long as the club is heading in the right direction, I probably won't care who's running it.

Peter Jackson is a great example. From the moment the walked in he was a Melbourne person. Referred to “we” and “us” a lot. Not Goodwin. Not Mahoney. It’s all “this club” “the club” the Melbourne football club”. Might seem small to you, but none of those in the key posts have a true interest and passion for the MFC in my opinion. It’s just a job to most. They see themselves as distinct from supporters and members. I am not really interested in pursuing an argument, but that’s how I have read it for a few years. 

[jnrmac 18,948]

23 hours ago, Jack Russell said:

Very sad to see a woman who claims to support women, be the puppet of a group of white priviledge men,who think that their money and colour gives them a right to terorize the people trying to do a their job. This article is full of falsehoods designed to cause distress and disruption. It is highly defanitrory and her sources ( which she basically reveals ) in all her articles about melbourne, if you read closely you will see a pattern. nothing in this article is true at all. What is true is that she has shown her cards, that is, her premise as a sport journalist is based on pushing the agenda for a small group of white privilegde men, who think they are entitled to impose themselves into footy clubs for their own egos, whilst sitting in portsea and sorento. Shame on you Caro, this group of men and yoursself are not melbourne. There a 40,000 plus members that are just as important , rich or not, no matter wehere they come from, we are all  important. Footy is not for just a small group of white men, who are you are matey with, it belongs to everyone.  

Seek help immediately

 

RUOK?

[rpfc 27,436]

Wilson is a [censored] stirrer.

And with us - there is a lot to stir...

The thing I can't abide is the faction nonsense - making/keeping enemies is only self-defeating and it reads quite petty.

I don't want change for changes sake but if removing any of Bartlett, Mahoney, or Goodwin gets us a better option then we have to seize the moment. 

Yes, I am looking at Clarkson but similarly for a President that unites or a football manager of higher quality and experience.

[BW511 2,242]

22 minutes ago, rpfc said:I don't want change for changes sake but if removing any of Bartlett, Mahoney, or Goodwin gets us a better option then we have to seize the moment.

Same should apply for the playing group too

[Binmans PA 25,997]

1 hour ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

It matters if the outsiders don’t really believe in our club and its supporters. It’s all about buying in and I’d argue none of the above mentioned have ever endeared themselves to the members of this club. It’s plastic and manufactured.  

And how are you going to argue that? You haven't really argued it at all. You've just put a baseless opinion out there, without anything to back it up...

Edited September 12, 2020 by A F

[whatwhat say what 18,899]

i can't quite understand the sense of victim persecution and character assassination going on in this thread

she's reporting that, in all likelihood, all bar the most senior of the assistant coaches is gone at the end of the year, the head of footy will go, and that the board have thought about contingencies in the likelihood that they do make a cut in goodwin's contract as well

that's a big story in itself, but she's also saying that - if he wasn't so busy - that a former player and head of the mcc would like a run at the presidency

this is not her having a grudge; this is journalism

it's hardly unexpected that the footy dept is going to undergo upheaval - we all want that, i think? - but the smith thing has been kicking around for years, so it's not like it's new news, but it's the sort of political machinations within football clubs that is caroline's bread and butter

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,930]

1 hour ago, A F said:

And how are you going to argue that? You haven't really argued it at all. You've just put a baseless opinion out there, without anything to back it up...

As I said, from the outside, I’m unsure if there has been a buy in. Yes it’s an opinion, isn’t what people offer on this site? You reckon there are others out there that perhaps share it? If you read Wilson’s article, evidently so. Do you feel as though Mahoney and others, including the coach, have connected with members and supporters,? 

[Binmans PA 25,997]

12 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

As I said, from the outside, I’m unsure if there has been a buy in. Yes it’s an opinion, isn’t what people offer on this site? You reckon there are others out there that perhaps share it? If you read Wilson’s article, evidently so. Do you feel as though Mahoney and others, including the coach, have connected with members and supporters,? 

Opinions are absolutely fine, as long as they're backed up with some sort of argument. Just saying they haven't connected with supporters is just nothingness.

And no, Wilson's article talks about not prioritising the MCC relationship. You're making things up to suit your own agenda here.

As for this nebulous connecting with supporters, how would you suggest one goes about 'connecting' with supporters as head of the FD? Would you like Josh Mahoney to text you our strategy going into trade week each year? I'd like him doing his job, rather than worrying about what irrational supporters think.

I mean this is a ridiculous statement and if you put your opinion out there, you need to be mature enough to accept criticism and/or back up what you're trying to argue.

To me it sounds like you're just whinging for the sake of whinging. 

As for my opinion on what they've done, I couldn't give two [censored] if they 'connect' with members. I care that they do a good job at their role. Josh's is to run the FD, not run supporter relationship groups.

I've been a relative fan of our trading and drafting strategy over Josh's time as head of FD, but I'm not happy with Josh reviewing his own department last year (as Bartlett said in the Fairfax press he was). Given the way things have played out this year, if the external review shows poor strategy and decision making going into 2020 that is a result of Josh's leadership, then he has to take responsibility for that.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,930]

11 minutes ago, A F said:

Opinions are absolutely fine, as long as they're backed up with some sort of argument. Just saying they haven't connected with supporters is just nothingness.

And no, Wilson's article talks about not prioritising the MCC relationship. You're making things up to suit your own agenda here.

As for this nebulous connecting with supporters, how would you suggest one goes about 'connecting' with supporters as head of the FD? Would you like Josh Mahoney to text you our strategy going into trade week each year? I'd like him doing his job, rather than worrying about what irrational supporters think.

I mean this is a ridiculous statement and if you put your opinion out there, you need to be mature enough to accept criticism and/or back up what you're trying to argue.

To me it sounds like you're just whinging for the sake of whinging. 

As for my opinion on what they've done, I couldn't give two [censored] if they 'connect' with members. I care that they do a good job at their role. Josh's is to run the FD, not run supporter relationship groups.

I've been a relative fan of our trading and drafting strategy over Josh's time as head of FD, but I'm not happy with Josh reviewing his own department last year (as Bartlett said in the Fairfax press he was). Given the way things have played out this year, if the external review shows poor strategy and decision making going into 2020 that is a result of Josh's leadership, then he has to take responsibility for that.

TL;DR

 

enjoy the game tonight. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,432]

21 minutes ago, A F said:

Opinions are absolutely fine, as long as they're backed up with some sort of argument. Just saying they haven't connected with supporters is just nothingness.

And no, Wilson's article talks about not prioritising the MCC relationship. You're making things up to suit your own agenda here.

As for this nebulous connecting with supporters, how would you suggest one goes about 'connecting' with supporters as head of the FD? Would you like Josh Mahoney to text you our strategy going into trade week each year? I'd like him doing his job, rather than worrying about what irrational supporters think.

I mean this is a ridiculous statement and if you put your opinion out there, you need to be mature enough to accept criticism and/or back up what you're trying to argue.

To me it sounds like you're just whinging for the sake of whinging. 

As for my opinion on what they've done, I couldn't give two [censored] if they 'connect' with members. I care that they do a good job at their role. Josh's is to run the FD, not run supporter relationship groups.

I've been a relative fan of our trading and drafting strategy over Josh's time as head of FD, but I'm not happy with Josh reviewing his own department last year (as Bartlett said in the Fairfax press he was). Given the way things have played out this year, if the external review shows poor strategy and decision making going into 2020 that is a result of Josh's leadership, then he has to take responsibility for that.

Just to clarify

This is A F’s opinion 

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

15 hours ago, Older demon said:

That is a well thought out discussion Lucy (stole that from the T.V. show). If I can take it a bit further and look at who we have drafted in the last 2 years I suspect the club did see a potential drop and hover, as that is exactly what happened. For 2019 they bought in May (losing Hogan and giving up pick 6 that became Ben King) and drafted Sparrow, Jordan, Nietschke, Hore, Bedford & Chandler. Dunkley was a mid year addition. That is a lot of mids. Then this year Jackson, Picket & Rivers. That makes 11 new additions to a squad that made a prelim 2 seasons ago to match the 11 delistings from 2018. Other teams haven't gone for youth but topped up with seasoned players. To me that suggests the footy dept thought the 2018 squad lacked a bit. Remember mid season we were not that good.

Last year with all the surgeries could not be foreseen but all bar Jordan & Nietschke have had a senior game. Are we doing a rebuild on the side? The club couldn't have expected Jones, Jetta and T Mac to fall away so quickly given their contract status and at times this year we are aspiring to the finals with 3-4 first year players in the team. None of the current top 4 are doing that and it is a struggle and honour to even get a game for a first year player at some of those clubs.

The club all along said 2018 was a bonus but the real expectation was to make finals in 2020 and in the years after. Ninth this year may be barely a pass with definite expectation for making finals and progressing further would be how I see it and that KPI seems a long way off

Out of interest do you think "making finals' in 2021 would be a sufficient KPI to continue the contract into 2022?

[Older demon 2,166]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Out of interest do you think "making finals' in 2021 would be a sufficient KPI to continue the contract into 2022?

Good question. I don't think so and I base this on  Bartlett's experience as an industrial relations lawyer and the work his firm does. KPI's are usually linked to the job description along with regular performance reviews. In terms of coaching number targets are a crude measure ie games won, finals appearances.

Personally at the end of three years I would want KPI's linked to yearly performance, comparisons with peers and progress reports (I know the coach fronts the board monthly with a progress report) and ability to identify and correct conflict, player performance and all that other corp[orate stuff. In a nutshell making finals in 2021 wouldn't be my KPI too simplistic 

[Tony Tea 2,786]

Caro glibly makes a raft of assertions about the club. Fair enough, it's what she does. But I was left wondering why I had not heard about any one of them. Admittedly I'm not plugged in to the main vein, but after seven years I figure I would have heard at least a skerrick.

[Demon trucker 1,743]

On 9/11/2020 at 4:33 PM, Better days ahead said:

I got to the end and wondered why I bothered to read it. Same old back room gossip and tittle tattle from Wilson. Her stock in trade.

Too many on here buy into anything negative about our club and believe every backroom rumour. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/12/2020 at 3:39 PM, Clintosaurus said:

Do we really want to be like Essendon? Their deluded fans have an obsession with 'Essendon people' being in positions of authority. Hird really worked out well didn't it?

Following in Carlton's footsteps. It's funny because Sheedy was a Richmond person before going there.

It's a dumb discussion for mine, once you join a club you become part of that club. Sheedy is one example but there are many. Hardwick was an Essendon/Port person until he became Richmond coach. Now he would consider himself as much a Richmond man as he ever was a Bombers or Power man. It's happened throughout the course of the games history, Checker was a Tigers man until he came to Melbourne and helped instill the ruthless Demons culture.

Barassi said it best when he went to Carlton, "my heart is where I am right now" (paraphrasing)

[Half forward flank 1,022]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Following in Carlton's footsteps. It's funny because Sheedy was a Richmond person before going there.

It's a dumb discussion for mine, once you join a club you become part of that club. Sheedy is one example but there are many. Hardwick was an Essendon/Port person until he became Richmond coach. Now he would consider himself as much a Richmond man as he ever was a Bombers or Power man. It's happened throughout the course of the games history, Checker was a Tigers man until he came to Melbourne and helped instill the ruthless Demons culture.

Barassi said it best when he went to Carlton, "my heart is where I am right now" (paraphrasing)

Forgetting the fact all the other key people in Sheedy and Barassis reign were Essendon and Carlton. And in fact Sheedy barracked for  the Bombers  as a kid.

[58er 5,607]

23 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Out of interest do you think "making finals' in 2021 would be a sufficient KPI to continue the contract into 2022?

LHEro and OlderDee
Lickhart was a 2019 recruit early in season BTW  and prob the best 2019 to date esp if Goody would play him.

[Coq au vin 754]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:37 PM, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Peter Jackson is a great example. From the moment the walked in he was a Melbourne person. Referred to “we” and “us” a lot. Not Goodwin. Not Mahoney. It’s all “this club” “the club” the Melbourne football club”. Might seem small to you, but none of those in the key posts have a true interest and passion for the MFC in my opinion. It’s just a job to most. They see themselves as distinct from supporters and members. I am not really interested in pursuing an argument, but that’s how I have read it for a few years. 

Goodwin said ‘we’ a lot in the latest presser.

[Coq au vin 754]

Journalism is not about the truth. It’s about ‘the story’. It’s about making something interesting enough that someone will read it. In the old days it was to sell newspapers!

Edited September 14, 2020 by Coq au vin

[Supermercado 2,609]

In the last 20 years how many contested club elections have there been across the league apart from Szondy vs Gutnick? The ratio of threatened contested elections to actual ones is about 1:300.

First thing the incumbents do is point out a vote will cost $100k and that's usually the end of it. Unless you have the popular support to push the incumbent off without a fight a'la Stynes and Gardner.  

[jnrmac 18,948]

On 9/13/2020 at 8:43 PM, Tony Tea said:

Caro glibly makes a raft of assertions about the club. Fair enough, it's what she does. But I was left wondering why I had not heard about any one of them. Admittedly I'm not plugged in to the main vein, but after seven years I figure I would have heard at least a skerrick.

So she couldn't possibly know whats going on because you haven't heard anything about it even though you're not "plugged in to the main vein"..

Have I got that right?

 

Just wanted to check.

[Tony Tea 2,786]

14 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Have I got that right?

No.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,930]

Amazing that Caro has not had a word to say about Melbourne tonight on Classified. Not a thing. A week after her article. In fact they haven’t even discussed the fact we won. She must be waiting for the off-season before she starts stirring the pot again. 

[Stein9193 129]

On 9/11/2020 at 7:41 AM, Jack Russell said:

:)

You're a weirdo.

[Pates 9,536]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i can't quite understand the sense of victim persecution and character assassination going on in this thread

she's reporting that, in all likelihood, all bar the most senior of the assistant coaches is gone at the end of the year, the head of footy will go, and that the board have thought about contingencies in the likelihood that they do make a cut in goodwin's contract as well

that's a big story in itself, but she's also saying that - if he wasn't so busy - that a former player and head of the mcc would like a run at the presidency

this is not her having a grudge; this is journalism

it's hardly unexpected that the footy dept is going to undergo upheaval - we all want that, i think? - but the smith thing has been kicking around for years, so it's not like it's new news, but it's the sort of political machinations within football clubs that is caroline's bread and butter

I agree, she’s a journo and she’s doing her job. Unfortunately her job seems to be directed at low hanging fruit most of the time but I think that’s less about persecution and more to do with they’re stories that have the higher interest and more likely to gain traction off. 

I don’t think she has a vendetta against us although I will say she does seem to have bit of a directed grudge towards North Melbourne and James Brayshaw (which I kind of every watching play out). She also definitely goes easier on her Tigers.