POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Sydney

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

Just now, Half forward flank said:

I do not disagree but think one has to be traded, for mine Brayshaw, and Viney forward.

I would be moving Viney Forward before Trading Midfielders. Angus can play there if he is given the room

[Cards13 9,117]

Geee wizz last week I said I’ve not commented on Goodys coaching ability but let’s hold fire on Goodys amazing coaching performance tonight as 2 players won us that game and I got the  “are you serious?! He out coached them”... welp looks like a little humble pie might be needed for a couple on here.. How would you rate his incredible plan today folks? 

The “what they’re saying down at xxx St” threads are the same every week, “stop Trac, Oli and Gawn and we win. Geeez the MFC are fizz weak. These guys always get ahead of themselves..”

We always say no one respects us... here is yet another reason why no other players, coaches, clubs or fans respect this club. Very few members/fans do either. Ducking pathetic output and outcome.

[Elegt 872]

47 minutes ago, olisik said:

The OMac experiment with him up forward for 10 minutes was proof Goodwin is out of his depth. Absolute scattergun coaching

Where do you hide a tall lumbering slow man who can't play backline?

[Binmans PA 25,921]

38 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

So I'm starting this before the end of the game, as I'm so angry and disappointed and let down that I need to write something down to get it off my chest.  

That game was lost from the moment Salem was pinged for holding the ball in the first five seconds.  We played lazy, selfish, arrogant football and we were taught a football lesson by a team that has been distinctly average all season.  They came in with a plan - to get a man behind the ball to either pick off the long kick, or to help with mopping up when it hits ground level.  They did it all night.  Have a think about how many times we crumbed a goal, or truly put some forward pressure on?  It was rare, at best.

We also lost this at selection.  Losing Hibberd hurt, and you could understand the reasoning behind Hannan and AVB going out, but the ins made no sense.  Joel Smith?  Yeah, he was okay in patches, but we know he doesn't work down there.  And what about Oscar.  Sheesh.  I hate to be that supporter, but this bloke can't play another senior game for us.  He was God awful.  But that's on Goodwin - why is he playing him?  What has Lockhart done to be dropped and left in the wilderness?  And as above - what of our forward pressure?  I thought Spargo did okay here and there, but others like Fritta, Melksham (outside of some good kicks in the first term), ANB etc provided little to no pressure and they did as they pleased.

But the concern, again, is through the midfield.  We are a contested ball winning, clearance team... and we were getting beat by one of the worst clearance sides in the comp.  What is going on here?  We are built for that sort of footy, yet we can't get our hands on it enough.  

We can't even use the 'tired' excuse - the Swans were coming off the same break, they made less changes and looked far fresher than us.  They hounded us, got numbers around the ball and we looked helpless to do anything about it.  

But I'm hurting after that.  Not just from the result, but from getting my hopes up yet again.  This is just the sort of game we lose, but I thought to myself that surely we have matured since then.  I couldn't have been more wrong.

And he has been a warrior for us, but Nathan Jones summed up our effort tonight in the second term.  With a chance of turning the momentum a little with a shot on goal, he lazily turns and kicks on his left, straight into the bloke on the mark.  Just unforgivable.  He is a wonderful Melbourne man, but he should never play for us again.  Stuff the 300.  We can't have experienced players in the side setting that sort of example.  It's just not on.

Lastly - because I need to say something positive - Ed Langdon is a ripper.  Yeah, he missed a few shots on goal, but his two way running and effort is something that all our players should watch.

If I could, I've give everyone here a hug.  I can't, so I'll send an e-hug instead.

I agree with all of this, but as for the bolded part. I suspect it's because we're still trying to get our defensive mentality right that we're not as explosive and as attacking in stoppages, particularly centre stoppages. It's also pretty clear there's next to no connection between Gawn and the mids for the majority of quarters.

Viney thought he was playing rugby again and constantly got lost in the defensive system in the first half.

Brayshaw was taking up really good attacking and defensive positions in the first quarter and our guys failed to hit him enough, but for the rest of the night he didn't do enough.

Oliver is still easily the cleanest of any of our players, but I counted at least twice he almost missed his foot with a drop punt, another two clearly off the side of the boot, and then another staggeringly poor kick from half back to a Sydney player.

Okay, so maybe there's a bit of tiredness creeping in, but aren't we super fit? The only other thing it could be is inconsistency and not bringing 100% focus and work rate to every game. It's simply not good enough.

Even when we did win clearance, our ball use for the most part was horrendous. 

We weren't helped by the fact that Weideman and Brown basically gave us no contest. Weideman was nowhere tonight. Fritsch is still super soft and plays the game on his own terms. The same could be said of Melksham.

The timing of the defenders with their spoils were completely off. And I said this in the game day thread, but how many times did our defenders make good position only to drop a simple mark and then fall over, and have their opponent score against them. Happened to certainly happened to Oscar, Lever, Smith and May was terrible for the most part (probably not helped by the tweak early in the game).

Langdon's two way running for four quarters was simply outstanding as you say, but his goal kicking, I'm sorry, that's a 15m kick directly in front to make the margin less than 2 kicks. It's basic stuff and speaks to a mental fragility.

I think mental fragility describes our group at the moment. Jones had a chance to go back and kick a goal to stem the tide in the 2nd. Nope. Gawn had a chance to kick his goal. Nope. 

I've no doubt we'll bring a better intensity against Fremantle now, but it shouldn't have to come on the back of not bringing enough the previous game.

Incidentally, it was pretty clear Goodwin was making moves in the coaches box. I would have preferred some of them earlier, but the Harmes move really is a shocker. As soon as he was put in the midfield in the last quarter, the first 10 minutes he was willing us towards the line. We need to tidy that up and we need to tidy up selection. I'm sure he's a lovely guy, but Smith isn't the right option down back. I hope Hibberd is ready to come back in. He has to replace Smith. Our forward structure is a nightmare too. We can't persist with so few who fail to bring consistent pressure.

[dazzledavey36 48,686]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

We don't need either in the side.  Ever.

Tomlinson is better than both of them combined down back right now.

Yep. 

Tomlinson is now our best 3rd tall defender. Leave him there. Bring in another runner in Baker for that wing spot.

Also I thought Harmes got us really got us going in the last quarter when he was finally put in the midfield.

Fancy that huh...

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

9 minutes ago, gs77 said:

There is a reason soldiers are trained to scream and yell when bayoneting.  It invokes primal aggression, gets adrenaline pumping, fine-tunes 4 billion years of evolutionary advantages that have seen countless generations of our ancestral tree get the better of their opposition.  All the massages, focus sessions and training in the world won't give you that killer edge on the field.  Nor will genteel addresses as a whiteboard covered in arrows. 

Come on coach, give the players a fair-dinkum rev-up as they go out to play - get them up and ready!!!  So many key games in recent years we have completely bottled, coming out flat and a step slower than the opposition.  When is enough enough???

Exactly why The All Blacks have always been hard to beat...

[dee-tox 4,778]

The lack of leadership is stark. Who says something to Petracca when he continues the Hollywood handballs and the wide arc turning circles? Or when Weidemann refuse to attack the pill? Who sets the culture and the non-negotiables onfield?  

The lack of preparation by coaches was obvious.

The selections were poor. Too tall with Gawn, Weed, Brown, OMac, Lever, May, Tomlinson, etc.

 

 

 

[roy11 2,918]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

We don't need either in the side.  Ever.

Tomlinson is better than both of them combined down back right now.

this is one of the things that annoys me, leave him there and settle. I'd rather we did that than play Tomlinson on the wing at the moment and keep him in the backline.  Would rather a scenario where Baker/Hunt get a game on the wing just for speed. 

[Elegt 872]

46 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Can anyone please tell me what Fritsch brings to this team?

A big head? Yep

lazy. Ineffective when ball hits ground. Doesnt apply any forward pressure. Fumbles. Cant kick. Supporters think he's a superstar and a beautiful kick but in reality he's a vfl player 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Exactly why The All Blacks have always been hard to beat...

Three quarter time

Swans in a tight huddle listening to the coach

Dees in three ridiculous huddles.

[KLV 1,626]

31 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

So I'm starting this before the end of the game, as I'm so angry and disappointed and let down that I need to write something down to get it off my chest.  

That game was lost from the moment Salem was pinged for holding the ball in the first five seconds.  We played lazy, selfish, arrogant football and we were taught a football lesson by a team that has been distinctly average all season.  They came in with a plan - to get a man behind the ball to either pick off the long kick, or to help with mopping up when it hits ground level.  They did it all night.  Have a think about how many times we crumbed a goal, or truly put some forward pressure on?  It was rare, at best.

We also lost this at selection.  Losing Hibberd hurt, and you could understand the reasoning behind Hannan and AVB going out, but the ins made no sense.  Joel Smith?  Yeah, he was okay in patches, but we know he doesn't work down there.  And what about Oscar.  Sheesh.  I hate to be that supporter, but this bloke can't play another senior game for us.  He was God awful.  But that's on Goodwin - why is he playing him?  What has Lockhart done to be dropped and left in the wilderness?  And as above - what of our forward pressure?  I thought Spargo did okay here and there, but others like Fritta, Melksham (outside of some good kicks in the first term), ANB etc provided little to no pressure and they did as they pleased.

But the concern, again, is through the midfield.  We are a contested ball winning, clearance team... and we were getting beat by one of the worst clearance sides in the comp.  What is going on here?  We are built for that sort of footy, yet we can't get our hands on it enough.  

We can't even use the 'tired' excuse - the Swans were coming off the same break, they made less changes and looked far fresher than us.  They hounded us, got numbers around the ball and we looked helpless to do anything about it.  

But I'm hurting after that.  Not just from the result, but from getting my hopes up yet again.  This is just the sort of game we lose, but I thought to myself that surely we have matured since then.  I couldn't have been more wrong.

And he has been a warrior for us, but Nathan Jones summed up our effort tonight in the second term.  With a chance of turning the momentum a little with a shot on goal, he lazily turns and kicks on his left, straight into the bloke on the mark.  Just unforgivable.  He is a wonderful Melbourne man, but he should never play for us again.  Stuff the 300.  We can't have experienced players in the side setting that sort of example.  It's just not on.

Lastly - because I need to say something positive - Ed Langdon is a ripper.  Yeah, he missed a few shots on goal, but his two way running and effort is something that all our players should watch.

If I could, I've give everyone here a hug.  I can't, so I'll send an e-hug instead.

First of all wise, e hug straight back to you, we are all needing a bit of comforting atm.

second, Wise you maybe missed the final brain fade of Langdon, resulting in a final swans goal, and his missed set shot from not much out, I think he undid a lot of his good by those mistakes.

Meanwhile, I don’t think a few ins and out here and there for us, would have made any difference at all.
The problem is coaching.

Longmuir came in with a premeditated plan to negate our strengths and expose our weaknesses, while clearly selling the plan to his players, who again clearly trust and work hard for him.

Goodwin, on the other hand, relied on his existing game plan, without considering, that maybe, this tired playing group would be down on energy. He was unable to come up with a suitable alternative.

it’s just so frustrating and predictable, Sydney had nothing to lose, so play out of their skins, but good coaching have plans for this. Goodwin is learning on the job as are many of his players. But they, the players, deserve someone who already has their license.

look at Chris Scott, I loathe that swarmy piece of poo, but he is a bloody good coach.

I assume pert and Bartlett are losing patience, if not, they need to know that we are. (Politely) 

GET Clarkson 

[dazzledavey36 48,686]

Once again Melksham goes missing. Whens Goodwin going to wake up and drop him. 3 weeks in a row hes been unsighted. Not only that hes lazy as [censored]. Has no defensive bone in him.

[drdrake 3,035]

It is plain and simple, we dont have 1 midfielder you can trust to kick the footy.  In fact we dont have many players that can kick the footy at the required afl standard.

[Vineytime 783]

The list has no depth. A plethora of vfl plebs tonight:

Oscar - worst player to ever play for MFC - Why?

Wager

Smith

Brown

ANB

all proven not to perform at AFL level. 
 

Jones cooked

[Deespicable 2,539]

22 minutes ago, gs77 said:

Omac seemed poor tonight; not to make excuses, but what are peoples' thoughts on the effect the inclusion of Smith might have had on his role and the synergy of our defence?

Please I'm going to get unusually nasty if I hear much more of this anti-Smith stuff.

As I said in my game thread, this loss was two weeks in the making when after playing with the best balanced back six (seven with rotations)  against Collingwood, Goody panicked and felt he had to make changes to our defensive structure after our loss to the Dogs, who were up for us with their season on the line. We definitely lost it in the middle that game, yet it was our defence that was totally restructured.

Out went Lockhart and Harmes who provided the right-side run and today we lost our left-side run in Hibberd. We got away with it against St Kilda because they played four talls up forward and Steven May had a cracker. But I thought, and /;m sure most of you thought, that given we were headed north to an even hotter environment (game started at 4.40pm), that we would reinstate Lockhart and that harmes would return down back.

But alas no, we decided to keep our three bigs and include Smith, who has been playing as a tall in practice and did a tight job on Papley, but was never going to provide run - that's not his go.

Whose fault is all that - it's Goody's and if he comes out with we went away from our brand as his reason for the loss, then he's the biggest problem because it is he, who should apologise for this disastrous game.

He went away from our brand playing a tall cumbersome backline and you only had to look at the run that Langdon, Oliver and Neal-Bullen provided to know that Cairns needed runners, not talls. I hope he explains it to the media and takes ownership of it but he's like Dan Andrews, he'll deflect.

 

 

 

[Demons11 6,404]

55 minutes ago, Hellish Inferno said:

GAGF

???

[Lucifers Hero 36,988]

Max didn't help our centre clearances/stoppages by putting the ball in front of Sydney's mids or no where near the path of our mids so they were always scrambling/chasing.

Not blaming Max for the loss but it was a poor game both playing his role and as a leader.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[rufus 916]

I guess we shouldn't complain. There's been plenty of times over the years when we've been a bottom 4 team, with no shot at finals, playing against a team sitting in the top 8 and we've knocked them off with pure grit and grind. Hmmm...actually I don't remember that ever happening (and there's been plenty of times we've been bottom 4 with our season shot at this stage).

A sporting club with zero pride.

[Demons11 6,404]

2 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Three quarter time

Swans in a tight huddle listening to the coach

Dees in three ridiculous huddles.

Clutching at straws there mate 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

Clutching at straws there mate 

How so

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Yep.

 

[Clayton van Oliver 1,664]

Definitely a recognisable brand of football ✅

[Jontee 3,635]

Played dumb footy for the conditions; when the wind dropped at half time we went ok.

Back 6 were terrible;  Swans knew how to play the Weid; dont let him crunch the pack, crunch him in the pack.

 

[Vineytime 783]

Waiting for the excuses from Mahoney at the end of the yr when we trade in another average player. 

“We thought last yr was a really tough yr but we have improved, we think we are in good shape and have addressed our needs through this trade period”

Under achieving club  

 

[leave it to deever 15,222]

Honestly the ammount of time the players instinctively wanted to handball it off without thinking you would think the ball was smothered in covid.