Game plans, tactics and all that jazz

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

After our great 2021 season I rewatched every game.

The kick to the forward pocket was a big element in 2021.

It disappeared in the finals and the winning margins exploded even allowing for some inaccurate kicking in the first two finals.

Perhaps we became too predictable in 2022

[Kent 2,574]

12 hours ago, Winners at last said:

I have a cunning plan*

Kick the ball to the wing. Winger to hold the ball for an eternity, then kick to forward (left) pocket where everyone is congregated, ignoring any leads from teammates elsewhere.

 

*Well, Baldrick should take some of the credit.

Isnt that plan A??

 

[deelusions from afar 1,608]

I posted this on the thread for Lachie Hunter but @dworship suggested I repost it here.  Agree with @Fat Tony that ideally the wingers would play on the wing that suits their preferred kicking foot.

6 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

Question for those that understand the role/s of modern wingers and terminology such as fat side wing / defensive wing etc.

My understanding was that:

1. We took the ball from defence (eg a kick in) on the defensive side (Brayshaw / Jordon side).  We were setup so that we may not move the ball quickly but it would be harder for teams to win the ball and generate repeat attacks (as predictable as it became).

2. Langdon always played on the far side wing due to his elite endurance.  This allowed for additional midfield rotations but meant that we didn't take into account the preferred kicking foot of him or the other winger/s.

If Hunter is in the team and able to perform close to his ability / potential, does that mean it won't be so clear cut in terms of the attacking side?  Will neither of them be a defensive winger?  Will Langdon still always be on the far side wing?

[tiers 2,761]

I have noticed that, in his time at the doggies, Hunter played predominantly on the left side of the ground so that he would be able to run freely along the boundary side and use the natural curvature of his left foot kick to deliver to a dangerous spot in the forward line. In other words, he did not have to turn into the corridor and encounter heavier traffic where he might not have been as effective.

On the other hand, Ed has dominated equally while playing both sides of the ground. It will be an interesting to see what the CD tactical plan delivers, especially as Jordan, Gus and Tomlinson offer other options on the wings.

Whichever way is chosen, we should be blessed with the best options for an attacking wing setup of any team.

 

[Stu 846]

Normally wingers that stay on a fixed wing get to spend two quarters close to the interchange bench. But due to Langdon's elite fitness he would always be furthest from the bench. That meant he got to play two quarters on the side that allowed him to kick more naturally into the corridor (when we were kicking to the left of screen) and he seemed to hit more targets and make better decisions.

I noticed when we were kicking to the right of screen, when Ed couldn't cut in to use his right foot more expansively, he would use either a banana/check-side, or a dinky chip with the outside of his foot. I haven't gone back and studied the tapes, but anecdotally it seems like he was caught holding the ball or turned it over more frequently when we kicked to the right. 

Anyway, I remember an article or video that mentioned Langdon would get to play on the right side now, as Hunter as great endurance too and given he is a left footer there wouldn't be an issue for him being on the far side when we kick to the right of screen. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Stu

[D4Life 2,299]

18 hours ago, Stu said:

Normally wingers that stay on a fixed wing get to spend two quarters close to the interchange bench. But due to Langdon's elite fitness he would always be furthest from the bench. That meant he got to play two quarters on the side that allowed him to kick more naturally into the corridor (when we were kicking to the left of screen) and he seemed to hit more targets and make better decisions.

I noticed when we were kicking to the right of screen, when Ed couldn't cut in to use his right foot more expansively, he would use either a banana/check-side, or a dinky chip with the outside of his foot. I haven't gone back and studied the tapes, but anecdotally it seems like he was caught holding the ball or turned it over more frequently when we kicked to the right. 

Anyway, I remember an article or video that mentioned Langdon would get to play on the right side now, as Hunter as great endurance too and given he is a left footer there wouldn't be an issue for him being on the far side when we kick to the right of screen. 

Is AFL finally moving towards the round ball football approach where a player is recruited as left or right side specific! Example being at Celtic  where Postecoglou recruited a right back specialist from Canada - Johnstone to replace Juranovic who they sold!

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by D4Life
Spelling & correction

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

We all know why we failed in the forward line last year but I'm interested in knowing what we might do to stop the kamikaze run on sides like Collingwood who seemed to take our defence apart even after we had the jinxed lead of around 26 points.

Is the answer simply fix the forward line and kick more goals?

I hope they have the analysis team working hard on what type of players and plays were used to cut our defence open. I have some gut feelings as to how it was done (attacking from our defensive pocket forward entries) but I'd love to see some serious analysis.

And .. please... let's thrash the Pies this year.

[binman 37,798]

13 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

We all know why we failed in the forward line last year but I'm interested in knowing what we might do to stop the kamikaze run on sides like Collingwood who seemed to take our defence apart even after we had the jinxed lead of around 26 points.

 

Simple. 

Get fitter. 

[Stu 846]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

Is AFL finally moving towards the round ball football approach where a player is recruited as left or right side specific! Example being at Celtic  where Postecoglou recruited a right back specialist from Canada - Johnstone to replace Juranovic who they sold!

 

I imagine for a lot of teams that use their wingers as just another body around every contest, it doesn't matter what foot any given winger kicks with. But because Goodwin wants our wingers to keep their width, it becomes more important. 

With soccer, the importance of aligning player positions with their strong side gets more important the higher the quality of the league the team plays in. A right footed left back can compensate with other strengths in a weaker comp but is likely to be targeted and found out at a higher level. Sometimes teams will compensate by having their left back attack more and provide wide overlapping run for a right-footed left winger. This will give the winger room to cut in on his right side and generate attacks more centrally. 

You can see this in our games last year. When we kicked to the right of screen and where Ed had the overlap run from other midfielders or half-backs, he was able to feed off a handball and get it back in space giving him the time to open up his body and hit a forward target in a central position. 

When fatigue struck later in the year and the overlap run dried up in the second half, Ed would often try to circle back as opponents would corral him against the boundary. When that happened, we were susceptible to a quick counterattack if players weren't presenting as an outlet for him. In those scenarios but kicking to the left, he would be able to at least use a long kick into F50 to relieve pressure. 

Getting to your point, I don't think the talent pool is deep enough to allow teams to pick side-specific players to fill specialty roles - as great as that would be. If Hunter wasn't available and we had our choice out of an elite right footed winger or an average left footed one, I'm sure the FD would have gone with the better player.

[Stu 846]

22 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

We all know why we failed in the forward line last year but I'm interested in knowing what we might do to stop the kamikaze run on sides like Collingwood who seemed to take our defence apart even after we had the jinxed lead of around 26 points.

Is the answer simply fix the forward line and kick more goals?

I hope they have the analysis team working hard on what type of players and plays were used to cut our defence open. I have some gut feelings as to how it was done (attacking from our defensive pocket forward entries) but I'd love to see some serious analysis.

And .. please... let's thrash the Pies this year.

I really hope we beat the Pies this year - I'm very much sick of losing to them!

Watch the first half against them in the Round 21 game - that's how you beat them. The challenge is to keep that up for four quarters. If we can go back to the sort of forward pressure we saw in 2021, combined with our solid defensive structure, that's the game plan that will beat the kamikaze style.

Pressure on the ball carrier forces them to release the ball quickly, allowing our defenders to intercept. By us sitting off teams more in 2022, it allowed them to hit those short kicks that short circuits our defensive structure behind the ball. 

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

13 minutes ago, binman said:

Simple. 

Get fitter. 

If only.. both Colingwood and Adelaide beat us with quick ball movement in 2021 and it simply got worse in 2022 as more teams adopted that tactic against us last year.

It is increasingly the new game style for many teams (see Hawthorn) so we need to work it out

[Fat Tony 4,373]

It appears from the preseason games that there has been a pretty big shift in the game plan. Last year (and in 2021) the game plan centred around a fast wing (Langdon) and slow/defensive wing (Jordon/Brayshaw). On the slow/defensive wing side, we kicked long to packs with multiple talls, with crumbers like Petracca ready in position for a soft drop crumb. The plan was focused on not giving away scores on the counterattack and maximising our contested marking advantages due to Gawn.

We saw some changes to the game plan in Round 23 last year and in the finals when we looked to switch a bit more, but this was implemented too late in the season to be engrained and we suffered from bad turnovers in the Finals (Sydney game in particular).

This year, it appears we are going to be more willing to spread the ground coming out of defence rather than just going to one side. You can see this from our kickout strategies. This will open us up a bit more to counterattack, but it should gives us much better quality entries when we break through and are able to go coast to coast. We are also being a bit more central and targeting one on one contests with penetrating 45m kicks when going inside 50.

I put the changes in philosophy down to 1) adapting due to not winning the flag last year (i.e. last year was the recession we had to have) and 2) the addition of Hunter on the wing. It looks like Hunter is a key inclusion and has given Goodwin the confidence to be a bit bolder with our ball movement.

 

 

[layzie 28,523]

One of the best threads on DL is back! 

[old55 21,217]

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

It appears from the preseason games that there has been a pretty big shift in the game plan. Last year (and in 2021) the game plan centred around a fast wing (Langdon) and slow/defensive wing (Jordon/Brayshaw). On the slow/defensive wing side, we kicked long to packs with multiple talls, with crumbers like Petracca ready in position for a soft drop crumb. The plan was focused on not giving away scores on the counterattack and maximising our contested marking advantages due to Gawn.

We saw some changes to the game plan in Round 23 last year and in the finals when we looked to switch a bit more, but this was implemented too late in the season to be engrained and we suffered from bad turnovers in the Finals (Sydney game in particular).

This year, it appears we are going to be more willing to spread the ground coming out of defence rather than just going to one side. You can see this from our kickout strategies. This will open us up a bit more to counterattack, but it should gives us much better quality entries when we break through and are able to go coast to coast. We are also being a bit more central and targeting one on one contests with penetrating 45m kicks when going inside 50.

I put the changes in philosophy down to 1) adapting due to not winning the flag last year (i.e. last year was the recession we had to have) and 2) the addition of Hunter on the wing. It looks like Hunter is a key inclusion and has given Goodwin the confidence to be a bit bolder with our ball movement.

 

 

Tony, how do you reconcile that Langdon always played on the wing opposite the interchange bench because of his maximum game time and the observation that May always "went to the left" with kick outs?

[BW511 2,236]

Think the change in game plan has come out of necessity but also doesn’t hurt that we now have a few better ball users in the side.

I suspect the move of Kozzie and Riv around the footy is also based around a different skill set, as much as needing fresher legs later in the year.

Will be interesting to watch the balance if the good teams get a run on, the flip side is we are opening ourselves up a little with this newfound flair. Looking forward to it!

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by BW511

[redandbluemakepurple 317]

On 1/16/2023 at 6:37 PM, Winners at last said:

I have a cunning plan*

Kick the ball to the wing. Winger to hold the ball for an eternity, then kick to forward (left) pocket where everyone is congregated, ignoring any leads from teammates elsewhere.

 

*Well, Baldrick should take some of the credit.

"A plan so cunning that you could pin a tail on it and call it a fox"  A. Blackadder c. 1810

Edited March 8, 2023 by redandbluemakepurple

[Demi Dee 578]

4 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

It appears from the preseason games that there has been a pretty big shift in the game plan. Last year (and in 2021) the game plan centred around a fast wing (Langdon) and slow/defensive wing (Jordon/Brayshaw). On the slow/defensive wing side, we kicked long to packs with multiple talls, with crumbers like Petracca ready in position for a soft drop crumb. The plan was focused on not giving away scores on the counterattack and maximising our contested marking advantages due to Gawn.

We saw some changes to the game plan in Round 23 last year and in the finals when we looked to switch a bit more, but this was implemented too late in the season to be engrained and we suffered from bad turnovers in the Finals (Sydney game in particular).

This year, it appears we are going to be more willing to spread the ground coming out of defence rather than just going to one side. You can see this from our kickout strategies. This will open us up a bit more to counterattack, but it should gives us much better quality entries when we break through and are able to go coast to coast. We are also being a bit more central and targeting one on one contests with penetrating 45m kicks when going inside 50.

I put the changes in philosophy down to 1) adapting due to not winning the flag last year (i.e. last year was the recession we had to have) and 2) the addition of Hunter on the wing. It looks like Hunter is a key inclusion and has given Goodwin the confidence to be a bit bolder with our ball movement.

 

It stunned me watching May kick out to the right a couple of times in the game against Richmond. Then again, with Gawn on one side and Grundy on the other, Hunter and Langdon backing them I reckon they might feel a bit more confident kicking to either side this year. Also noticed on occasion Gawn and Grundy were on opposite wings covering their kick down the line. Caused a lot of confusion and indecision in them moving forward. 

[Demi Dee 578]

In response to Fat Tony,

It stunned me watching May kick out to the right a couple of times in the game against Richmond. Then again, with Gawn on one side and Grundy on the other, Hunter and Langdon backing them I reckon they might feel a bit more confident kicking to either side this year. Also noticed on occasion Gawn and Grundy were on opposite wings covering their kick down the line. Caused a lot of confusion and indecision in them moving forward. 

[Fat Tony 4,373]

1 hour ago, old55 said:

Tony, how do you reconcile that Langdon always played on the wing opposite the interchange bench because of his maximum game time and the observation that May always "went to the left" with kick outs?

I would theorise that Langdon always played the non interchange wing because he very rarely went off and it meant that the slow (Jordon) wing was able to be used to facilitate interchanges more easily. On kick outs, I would guess that the kick left strategy was because our kick in players were all lefties (May, Salem, Pig) and they could take territory more safely to left side. It also made it more easy to know what which side Gawn was going. That said, it certainly is a contradiction to my overall thesis.

I would hope we see Langdon and Hunter swap this year with their preferred foot on the boundary this year. This will help us kick out on the full less often and should help us move the ball quicker.

One drawback I see of changing our game plan is that we don't have like for like replacements for Langdon or Hunter if they get injured. Consequently, I could see us going back to last years game plan temporarily if we lose a winger.

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

I like the direct play idea but what will it mean for our defence. The strategy was to lock the ball in the forward line thus encouraging the opposition defender to dump kick to our defensive gatekeeper. I likened it to a python slowly crushing its prey

As a great man said... For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

2023 could be fun !

 

[layzie 28,523]

17 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I like the direct play idea but what will it mean for our defence. The strategy was to lock the ball in the forward line thus encouraging the opposition defender to dump kick to our defensive gatekeeper. I likened it to a python slowly crushing its prey

As a great man said... For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

2023 could be fun !

 

It is definitely a balancing act. I think it's something I'd encourage when we are countering on a fast break but we can't go helter skelter all the time otherwise it will be pinging back the other way like no-one's business. There will be times in the game where we will still need to go with what we've been doing as this will be the best way to control the game at times. 

How they go about the balancing act I've got no idea. Wouldn't want to give up too much of what we already have. 

 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:59 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

I like the direct play idea but what will it mean for our defence. The strategy was to lock the ball in the forward line thus encouraging the opposition defender to dump kick to our defensive gatekeeper. I likened it to a python slowly crushing its prey

As a great man said... For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

2023 could be fun !

 

We will still be set up with Gawn, Grundy, May, Lever, Petty and probably Brayshaw to intercept any dump kicks coming out of our forward line. A defender looking up kicking out of our attacking 50 will have to make a smart split second decision or risk turning it over. This is also predicated on forward 50 pressure from ANB, Spargo, Kozzie and our kids helping out like they did in 2021. This element was off in 2022 which allowed teams to rebound quicker/smarter out of our forward line.

[Demonstone 19,050]

Nice write-up here about our midfield rotations this year.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-yze-effect-why-star-studded-dees-want-to-spread-midfield-load-20230310-p5cr5k.html

[640MD 2,749]

I read that Melb had a heavy hit out at Casey Fields yesterday.

question is that classed as a loading and then 8 day rest until the opening match

or is it just a cunning ploy to make the bulldogs assume that we have a secret strategy ?  
it seems a good idea to me. Hit the first game with vigor.

Edited March 10, 2023 by 640MD
Paddock not park. 2/ wrong place

[640MD 2,749]

Photos on the MFC site of training yesterday