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"Soft as butter": Bartlett's stinging attack on Melbourne Players



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27 minutes ago, Sydee said:

"The Melbourne Way" ?

Just what is that ? We've  been suffering "The Melbourne Way" for far too long - from what I've seen it represents perennial underachievement. "The Melbourne Way" has never been the way to deliver anything like sustained competitiveness and success 

Personally I'd prefer to hear and see a brand new way that is not The Melbourne Way  

Um, this is bit awkward. It wasn't really Simon......

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Here are some of the choice words he used: "It was disgraceful.  When you pull on a Melbourne jumper, we don't give them out in Weeties packets" "You have to show respect for the jumper and

Here are a few more that I missed: "I have defended our footy department, our coaches and players my whole tenure but I can't defend that.  How can you defend that? "I said at the start of t

Scathing alright.  Never seen him react this way before. I am also glad that internally they're fuming big time.

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36 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Do either of you know how these sorts of things work? Or what other clubs do? Or what is lawful in the world of employment law?

As far as I am aware, these sorts of clauses don't just give us the power to sack him for free.

I'm sure there are clauses in there that talk about the contract ending early, but they'll almost certainly have financial ramifications attached.

If you know more than me, please divulge. But if not, I don't think it's fair for you say the club has been "very negligent" or "failed in their corporate governance" if we have to pay Goodwin to end his contract early.

Termination (by either party) clauses will have the financial aspects (and other rights and responsibilities) stated so I was not suggesting any termination is 'free'.  Quite the opposite. 

My point was related to people claiming we would have to pay out the whole contract said to be ~ $1.4m.  'Termination' clauses, if included, would protect us against that. The financial aspects of 'Termination' clauses could be 'X' months of salary, % of salary for the balance of the contract, the total (or 'discounted') $ for the term remaining or any other combo both parties negotiate.

As I indicated it would be rare in these times to not have Termination (by either party) clauses in (service agreements).  It was in that context ie if our Board didn't include them that imv it would be 'failed corporate governance'. 

If as you believe our Board did include them then our corporate governance is solid and we would not be up for $1.4m suggested.

Edit:  There are broadly two types of Termination clauses 1) Not meeting critical KPI's and 2) Falling out of love with each other.  Both should be included in Coaching contracts.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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44 minutes ago, binman said:

Goody will juts say something along the lines of:

'football it results driven business, and we are all under pressure to get those results, me included. That is how it should be. Glenn is a passionate demon man and has every right to be angry with that performance as do dees fans. It wasn't acceptable. it wasn't the Melbourne way. Now have you have you heard the one about....'

That is what a 'straight bat' is...

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2 minutes ago, binman said:

Um, this is bit awkward. It wasn't really Simon......

He's said it before or words to that effect - in any event I didn't attribute it to Simon - it is more a reflection on what comes out of the MFC consistently - lots of words, lots of promises - but ultimately not much action  

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If we finish bottom 4 again I wouldn't be surprised if Goodwin offers his resignation and comes to the realisation that he can't take this club any further. Then receives a fair pay out that suits both parties.

He's been given all the assets to coach a successful side (premier ruck, a supposedly very good midfield, two high profile defenders, ordered and got two outside wingers last year).

I don't know how he can look the board and the members in the eye and declare he's the man to take us forward given we've won 8 out our last 31 games, sit equal second last with the best injury list of the comp and oversees a team that can't execute the most basic of skills whenever they front up against a top 8 side.

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4 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Good.  The players needed to hear that from the coach.

However, the coach and fans also needed to hear it as well, so I'm glad Bartlett came forward with those comments.  

Wednesday night will tell us a little more, but I'm confident we will see a strong response from some pretty embarrassed players.

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3 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Yep Bartlett sprayed Goodwin, Simon then relayed to the players IMO. Have noticed Goodwin getting a bit more frustrated and showing emotion lately, he knows the pressure is on him now. Trouble is, we should beat Crows easily so that will buy him more time but I think the inevitable will return. His gameplan and lack of effort to go outside of it has the players frustrated and offside, thats how it looks anyway IMO.

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32 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we finish bottom 4 again I wouldn't be surprised if Goodwin offers his resignation and comes to the realisation that he can't take this club any further. Then receives a fair pay out that suits both parties.

He's been given all the assets to coach a successful side (premier ruck, a supposedly very good midfield, two high profile defenders, ordered and got two outside wingers last year).

I don't know how he can look the board and the members in the eye and declare he's the man to take us forward given we've won 8 out our last 31 games, sit equal second last with the best injury list of the comp and oversees a team that can't execute the most basic of skills whenever they front up against a top 8 side.

This.

But I wouldn't be waiting till year end.

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I’m sure if goody is given his marching orders the crows would swoop in and sign him as an assistant for Nicks given his relationship with roo. 

A win win for both parties. 

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46 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we finish bottom 4 again I wouldn't be surprised if Goodwin offers his resignation and comes to the realisation that he can't take this club any further. Then receives a fair pay out that suits both parties.

He's been given all the assets to coach a successful side (premier ruck, a supposedly very good midfield, two high profile defenders, ordered and got two outside wingers last year).

I don't know how he can look the board and the members in the eye and declare he's the man to take us forward given we've won 8 out our last 31 games, sit equal second last with the best injury list of the comp and oversees a team that can't execute the most basic of skills whenever they front up against a top 8 side.

I'd be astounded if he offered to resign for two reasons. First, I doubt his ego would allow it. That is not a criticism. I expect all professional sports coaches need a healthy ego to rise to the top and to succeed. Secondly, I suspect any payout would be higher if he was sacked rather than if he resigned. Given any termination will most likely be the end of his senior coaching career, he would be wanting the best possible payout to give him some time to move into a new, lower paid job. 

And to repeat what I posted earlier, I don't expect any AFL coaches to leave at the end of this year (apart from Worsfold). Covid provides grounds to argue for every team that it is hard to know how the coach performed.

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

Last contract I signed was reviewed at 6 months and at 12 months thereafter.Usually 3 year contracts.

If performance was deemed to be unsatisfactory against measurables then a process of departure was started with negotiated settlement.

I've signed a few of these and never has the contract ever been fully paid out even if the reason was the project not proceeding.

I work in the construction and development industies.Perhaps footy coach contracts are different. If he hasnt performed he cannot expect a full payout.

That was the type of situation i was alluding to

If Performance indicators are all ticked off then there is not a problem 

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1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

It's not like this would have been a one way discussion, though.  Goodwin's manager and/or lawyer would have been working from the other side to limit the effectiveness of any proposed get out clause. Presumably the two sides met somewhere near the middle which I expect would have given the club an opportunity to terminate on some grounds. Whether ladder position is one of them would be questionable. 

I imagine there are lawyers in Victoria right now looking at Force Majeure clauses in all sorts of contracts in every industry and business to see whether Stage 4 lockdown triggers anything. In fact, Covid-19 and the effect it has had on the AFL this year is why I would be surprised if any AFL coach is removed at the end of this year.

I agree 100% but if at the end of this season we are languishing near the bottom end of the ladder, that tells me a certain party  has not fulfilled their side of the bargain. 
so far This season the coach has had pretty much a full list to choose from

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2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we finish bottom 4 again I wouldn't be surprised if Goodwin offers his resignation and comes to the realisation that he can't take this club any further. Then receives a fair pay out that suits both parties.

He's been given all the assets to coach a successful side (premier ruck, a supposedly very good midfield, two high profile defenders, ordered and got two outside wingers last year).

I don't know how he can look the board and the members in the eye and declare he's the man to take us forward given we've won 8 out our last 31 games, sit equal second last with the best injury list of the comp and oversees a team that can't execute the most basic of skills whenever they front up against a top 8 side.

Brilliant post.

Sums up my thoughts exactly.

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5 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Followed the club for 50 years & a member for 25 almost.... History continues to repeat itself decade upon decade...Instability is in the DNA of the MFC, rebuild after rebuild, burnt careers of both player, coach & administrator!  

Easily fixed though

We keep hiring First Time Coaches

***Stop doing it***

We need the Best Coach in the land

( should have been Ratten a few years back, but Roos held the decision)

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On 8/3/2020 at 11:18 AM, Lord Nev said:

Yep, you could even use the comparison of one being a ruthless competitor who has 4 flags and the other being a top bloke/party boy who has 0.

Bit tough on Bernie. He's just a softer soul at heart. Not sure how being a "party boy" is define in this instance.

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1 minute ago, praha said:

Bit tough on Bernie. He's just a softer soul at heart. Not sure how being a "party boy" is define in this instance.

Love Bernie, wasn't meant as a put down at all, just talking about the difference between the two mindsets.

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6 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we finish bottom 4 again I wouldn't be surprised if Goodwin offers his resignation and comes to the realisation that he can't take this club any further. Then receives a fair pay out that suits both parties.

He's been given all the assets to coach a successful side (premier ruck, a supposedly very good midfield, two high profile defenders, ordered and got two outside wingers last year).

I don't know how he can look the board and the members in the eye and declare he's the man to take us forward given we've won 8 out our last 31 games, sit equal second last with the best injury list of the comp and oversees a team that can't execute the most basic of skills whenever they front up against a top 8 side.

Personally, I think this is dreamland.

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7 minutes ago, old dee said:

Because we won’t finish bottom 4 or Goodwin won’t offer his resignation? 

We're in a time of great economic uncertainty. Goodwin has three kids (I think) and a house in Melbourne and Rye. He's also clearly an incredibly driven person. There's no way he offers his resignation. 

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50 minutes ago, old dee said:

Because we won’t finish bottom 4 or Goodwin won’t offer his resignation? 

I’d probably go with both, looking at the teams we’ve beaten and looking at the teams we’ve lost to I’d say right now we look like a mid-card player in the vicinity of 8th-12th. 

That will be enough for him not to get the sack and I also don’t think he will resign, he’ll instead see unfinished business and try to turn it around. 

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