Jump to content
  • Podcast:      

Mickey

"Soft as butter": Bartlett's stinging attack on Melbourne Players

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

This exchange shows some fantastic analysis from both of you, cheers for talking technical football!

IMOs Rusty's description is exactly what happened and binman, your analysis of the zones is correct. We play a game where players need to leave their direct opponent to cover. We've seen this for a decade in AFL but its rarely shown well on tv.

The stand out for me in the piece was actually how we allowed the player to get the easy block on Lever. He looked half hearted, but honestly that's because by the time it happened there was nothing he could do.

Lever and OMac were fine with their player swap. That's how positional defenders play.

You can see Harmes got sucked towards the ball, and his player dropped back and blocked the space in front of Lever forcing him to run wide. In that situation, Harmes needed to play as part of the zone rather than man on man, but he didn't. I think the reason he didn't is the great big hole in front of him that TMac (next to the umpire) and Gawn jogged towards the goals: if they had pushed a touch harder into that space, Harmes wouldn't have had to choose between defending the lead and protecting the block. 

Once it was clear the lead was off Harmes rejoined the zone and pushed hard to try and cover Georgidaes, but he didn't get there.

TMac, howver, jogged into nowhere when the kick came in. He was front on, watching the lead unfold and should have seen the block on Lever that gave Georgiades space and run to him. Even if he didn't push hard the first time to block the hole, he should have seen the block happen, and pushed to cover Georidaes, but he continued to jog towards no man's land (not the lead block and not the hot spot - Georiades). When he finally did react (later than either Harmes or Langdon) and move towards the right position, it was too late. 

Note, TMac was the spare player and needed to hit the contrst. Langdon was reluctant to go hard because that would have left his man free at the fall of the ball. 

 

 

20200802_120639.jpg

20200802_120855.jpg

20200802_121008.jpg

20200802_121123.jpg

20200802_121223.jpg

20200802_121556.jpg

Fantastic research. All I see is OMac giving his man too much space and not sticking on him. 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

By the way what on earth is that previous senior St Kilda coach doing? Richardson.

Edited by Coq au vin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, sue said:

That was obvious to the most casual viewer on TV.

Maybe the boys had a Weekend at Bernies...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Fantastic research. All I see is OMac giving his man too much space and not sticking on him. 

I can definitely see that interpretation, but I honestly think that OMacs role (at taller and heavier than Lever) is to stay in the goal square if possible, with Lever using his aerial ability, thus the switch between Lever and Omac.

OMac is watching the ball come in and the players come back.  Lever is meant to watch the leads away. Maybe we'd be better if OMac was going on the lead with Georiades, but do you really want Lever one out with Westhoff in the goal square (who he gives 5cm and 10kg to)?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Fantastic research. All I see is OMac giving his man too much space and not sticking on him. 

I can definitely see that interpretation, but I honestly think that OMacs role (at taller and heavier than Lever) is to stay in the goal square if possible, with Lever using his aerial ability, thus the switch between Lever and Omac.

OMac is watching the ball come in and the players come back.  Lever is meant to watch the leads away. Maybe we'd be better if OMac was going on the lead with Georiades, but do you really want Lever one out with Westhoff in the goal square (who he gives 5cm and 10kg to)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Fantastic research. All I see is OMac giving his man too much space and not sticking on him. 

I see a handover that went awry - which  happens occasionally for all teams. So I am perplexed why Lyon used this to beat up Oscar.  It's not as if there weren't 1000 other disasterous things he could have picked on in that match. I'demphasize multiple examples of the sort of kicking by Oliver (that he did illustrate). Seems to me that that destroys the team far more than the occasionaly failed handover in the backline.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Fantastic research. All I see is OMac giving his man too much space and not sticking on him. 

Ball watching as usual.

OMac thinks he is Usain Bolt and can close a gap in 0.987 secs. the truth is that he is slower than the Queen mary. Both in reaction time and in covering his man.

Rarely has any body contact on his defenders. Its infuriating that he lets them waltz 4 or 5 paces off him 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sue said:

I see a handover that went awry - which  happens occasionally for all teams. So I am perplexed why Lyon used this to beat up Oscar.  It's not as if there weren't 1000 other disasterous things he could have picked on in that match. I'demphasize multiple examples of the sort of kicking by Oliver (that he did illustrate). Seems to me that that destroys the team far more than the occasionaly failed handover in the backline.

Handover. We are two minutes into the game. port have a set play, ready to go. georgadis is up and about, awake, oscar is not. The Port bloke sees oscar is in no mans land, sets a block and georgiadis runs to the ball. good set up Port, well done. However much less likely to work if we simply manned up and spoiled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Half forward flank said:

Handover. We are two minutes into the game. port have a set play, ready to go. georgadis is up and about, awake, oscar is not. The Port bloke sees oscar is in no mans land, sets a block and georgiadis runs to the ball. good set up Port, well done. However much less likely to work if we simply manned up and spoiled.

If you are 100% against zone defence, fair enough.  But surprisingly there doesn't seem to be a coach in the AFL who is with you.  Now maybe that is madness -  I certainly am not in a position to know.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Article from Tom Morris. Seems to be of the opinion that we could afford to pay Goodwin out if we need to.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/insipid-disgraceful-why-scathing-assessment-has-goodwins-job-in-jeopardy/news-story/cf390de73f71373c0b99854cd9fdfb61

Jungle Drums are starting to move in....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, sue said:

If you are 100% against zone defence, fair enough.  But surprisingly there doesn't seem to be a coach in the AFL who is with you.  Now maybe that is madness -  I certainly am not in a position to know.

Zone defence is a very broad definition. This was not a play for a zone defence. It was a play to man up. Sports all over the world use a mix of zone and man on man defence. In that play you are essentially saying to Oscar. Mate you are on Georgiadis this week, watch him his is young, raw, quick on a lead with good hands. Well, actually you are on him until he goes for a lead. No wonder our players are confused and demorilised. I am not that clever but I, like others,  fair dinkum, called the game after that first goal. Said to the wife, thats game over.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to discuss the game take it to the post match thread or start another thread about the defensive zones. 

 Interesting discussion but let’s keep this thread on topic. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Why haven’t they posted Bartlett interview on the MFC site???? 
Has any journo interviewed Goody for a response to Bartlett slamming???

Edited by Hogan2014

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be absolutely filthy as a player. 

Agree to a pay-cut for the same volume of work.  

Accept a disruption to my family and home life. 

Be subjected to four-day breaks and greater injury risks.

Get publicly shamed by a board member. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Skuit said:

I would be absolutely filthy as a player. 

Agree to a pay-cut for the same volume of work.  

Accept a disruption to my family and home life. 

Be subjected to four-day breaks and greater injury risks.

Get publicly shamed by a board member. 

Boo-hoo. There’s millions of Aussies affected by COVID who have accepted a pay cut/lost their job; have had their family life disrupted by being locked down and becoming default teachers, whilst still trying to do their normal job. As for the public shaming - well, if you’re happy to bask in public praise, you have to cop the public criticism when you put in a sh1tful performance (not for the first time in recent years).

 

  • Like 13
  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Why haven’t they posted Bartlett interview on the MFC site???? 
Has any journo interviewed Goody for a response to Bartlett slamming???

Why on earth would we need Goodwin to respond? We need a response on the field. I'm in agreement with Bartlett's initial comments here, now continue keeping them accountable behind closed doors.

Edited by A F
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I would be absolutely filthy as a player. 

Agree to a pay-cut for the same volume of work.  

Accept a disruption to my family and home life. 

Be subjected to four-day breaks and greater injury risks.

Get publicly shamed by a board member. 

Jordan Lewis (4x Premiership Winner):

“I certainly think he has the right to. He is a voice to the members purely from the football club and that was his assessment,” Lewis told Saturday Stretch. “And I don’t think we can disagree with him.

“It was a hard game to watch and the players would be disappointed with their performance and the coaches would be disappointed as well.

“It just shows that everyone in football, whether you’re playing or not playing or part of the board, everyone hurts when you put out a performance like that.”

Why Demons president ‘has the right’ to publicly criticise team after ‘lifleless’ performance

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Skuit said:

I would be absolutely filthy as a player. 

Agree to a pay-cut for the same volume of work.  

Accept a disruption to my family and home life. 

Be subjected to four-day breaks and greater injury risks.

Get publicly shamed by a board member. 

Hopefully they cop it on the chin and move on, if they feel offended or upset they can jog on. 

Edited by Ethan Tremblay
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, deanox said:

 

This exchange shows some fantastic analysis from both of you, cheers for talking technical football!

IMOs Rusty's description is exactly what happened and binman, your analysis of the zones is correct. We play a game where players need to leave their direct opponent to cover. We've seen this for a decade in AFL but its rarely shown well on tv.

The stand out for me in the piece was actually how we allowed the player to get the easy block on Lever. He looked half hearted, but honestly that's because by the time it happened there was nothing he could do.

Lever and OMac were fine with their player swap. That's how positional defenders play.

You can see Harmes got sucked towards the ball, and his player dropped back and blocked the space in front of Lever forcing him to run wide. In that situation, Harmes needed to play as part of the zone rather than man on man, but he didn't. I think the reason he didn't is the great big hole in front of him that TMac (next to the umpire) and Gawn jogged towards the goals: if they had pushed a touch harder into that space, Harmes wouldn't have had to choose between defending the lead and protecting the block. 

Once it was clear the lead was off Harmes rejoined the zone and pushed hard to try and cover Georgidaes, but he didn't get there.

TMac, howver, jogged into nowhere when the kick came in. He was front on, watching the lead unfold and should have seen the block on Lever that gave Georgiades space and run to him. Even if he didn't push hard the first time to block the hole, he should have seen the block happen, and pushed to cover Georidaes, but he continued to jog towards no man's land (not the lead block and not the hot spot - Georiades). When he finally did react (later than either Harmes or Langdon) and move towards the right position, it was too late. 

Note, TMac was the spare player and needed to hit the contrst. Langdon was reluctant to go hard because that would have left his man free at the fall of the ball.

20200802_120639.jpg

 

Some good highlights and explanations there Ox, especially the T-Mac side and Harmes losing his man also.  Both have not played much defence (T-Mac in recent times i mean) and it would appear to be showing here.  Not sure why we are trying to turn Harmes into a defender at this stage of his career.  He is a big game stopper in mid field who revels at the challenge of playing on the opp's better mids and pushing hard forward at times when the opportunity arises to punish his direct opponent and/or make him work his butt off and expend energy, even if he doesn't hit the score board.

Looking at that first screen shot, i would have thought O-Mac needs to at least be maintaining "touch" on his opponent if he isn't keeping an eye on him so he knows when his opponent has left his side surely.  Really basic blunder right there from where i'm sitting, especially given everyone was man on man until just before Dixon kick and little zoning going on to that point.

Edited by Rusty Nails
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mickey said:

Article from Tom Morris. Seems to be of the opinion that we could afford to pay Goodwin out if we need to.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/insipid-disgraceful-why-scathing-assessment-has-goodwins-job-in-jeopardy/news-story/cf390de73f71373c0b99854cd9fdfb61

I have kept saying that just because you sign a contract to pay a coach x-amount per year, it does not mean you have to pay him the same if you end the contract early. All you have done is agree to pay him x-amount over the designated time if the coach is there for the designated time. If you cut the coach loose before the end, you negotiate a reduced pay-out.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Jordan Lewis (4x Premiership Winner):

“I certainly think he has the right to. He is a voice to the members purely from the football club and that was his assessment,” Lewis told Saturday Stretch. “And I don’t think we can disagree with him.

“It was a hard game to watch and the players would be disappointed with their performance and the coaches would be disappointed as well.

“It just shows that everyone in football, whether you’re playing or not playing or part of the board, everyone hurts when you put out a performance like that.”

Why Demons president ‘has the right’ to publicly criticise team after ‘lifleless’ performance

 

Thanks LN.  Nice to see someone with experience and pedigree talking sense.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only ONE person we need, if at all, to look at.............MITCHELL

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Some good highlights and explanations there Ox, especially the T-Mac side and Harmes losing his man also.  Both have not played much defence (T-Mac in recent times i mean) and it would appear to be showing here.  Not sure why we are trying to turn Harmes into a defender at this stage of his career.  He is a big game stopper in mid field who revels at the challenge of playing on the opp's better mids and pushing hard forward at times when the opportunity arises to punish his direct opponent and/or make him work his butt off and expend energy, even if he doesn't hit the score board.

Looking at that first screen shot, i would have thought O-Mac needs to at least be maintaining "touch" on his opponent if he isn't keeping an eye on him so he knows when his opponent has left his side surely.  Really basic blunder right there from where i'm sitting, especially given everyone was man on man until just before Dixon kick and little zoning going on to that point.

Talk about complicate things.  Its all fascinating stuff and clearly takes a lot of time to learn. And to think none of Harmes, Maxs, or Harmes would have mattered if OMac had stayed close to the man he lined up on. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skuit said:

I would be absolutely filthy as a player. 

Agree to a pay-cut for the same volume of work.  

Accept a disruption to my family and home life. 

Be subjected to four-day breaks and greater injury risks.

Get publicly shamed by a board member. 

If I was a player who wanted to win GF's, I'd accept that the criticism is warranted then get on with the job of improving. A realistic assessment of where we are at has to happen if we want to progress. Otherwise we are papering over the real issues. The fact is, that performance was pathetic and we are nowhere. Right, then, back to basics...  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    THE TORRENS THUMPING 2.0 by George on the Outer

    Once again the banks of Adelaide’s Torrens River witnessed the Melbourne Football Club handing out another on-field thumping to its opponent. This time the hapless victim was North Melbourne and given it was only the club’s second win against them since 2007, it was a very satisfying outcome. The Demons got off to a slow start once again, looking listless from their four day break, a situation that wasn’t helped by Sam Weideman and Christian Petracca missing easy set shots. At the first bre

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE 2020 EQUATION by Whispering Jack

    The 2020 equation is simple for the Melbourne Football Club – it must keep winning and it must take some big scalps during the second half of the season without dropping games against the lesser lights. The Demons have gone down this season to the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th teams on the ladder including twice by less than a goal in games that could easily have gone the other way. Against that, they have beaten 11th, 13th, 14th and 18th and though they thumped the Crows during the week, the

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE TORRENS THUMPING by George on the Outer

    THE TORRENS THUMPING - LEAVING THE DEMONS BEHIND That headline might lead a reader to think that Melbourne had lost badly in Adelaide but no!  It was actually the MFC which left it’s demons from the previous week behind as it applied the blowtorch to the Crows in the final quarter of their match at the Adelaide Oval and went on their merry way to record a 51 point win before their biggest crowd of the year (even if they were mainly hostile). Much had been made in the media about t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    STATE OF DEESASTER by the Oracle

    Melbourne’s circus caravan rolls into Adelaide on Wednesday night, an event that will put shivers up the spine of every Crows’ supporter as they look directly into the face of disaster. The flakey Demons left their home town a month ago and proceeded to rough up the Gold Coast Suns and Hawthorn in Sydney before moving on to the sunny Queensland where they missed by a bee’s diaphragm against the more or less local second-on-ladder Brisbane Lions. Then, they had to butter up against the top t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    OVERPOWERED by George on the Outer

    In a dismal display against Port Adelaide, Melbourne showed it had learnt nothing from their previous week’s loss to Brisbane. Port, in contrast, after losing to St.Kilda, addressed their failings, and as a result made the Demons look like a second-rate side.  Melbourne failed to score a goal in the first quarter, and the first time it seriously troubled the goal umpire was saved until a minute before half-time.  Did it get any better?  No with their meagre three goals for the sec

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    DESPERATION OF THE MOMENT by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne’s recent win against Hawthorn highlighted how important Max Gawn’s ruck domination is for the team. A week later however, that domination continued but its effect was totally blunted by the Brisbane Lions midfield and, as a consequence, what could have been an easy win over a leading AFL contender turned into a disappointing but close loss and a sense of desperation now looms over the club as the halfway mark of the season approaches. This week’s opponent in Port Adelaide also und

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE FOUR POINT FAIL by George on the Outer

    Melbourne went down by 4 points in a thrilling finish against Brisbane, but they failed by more than the 4 points.     They also failed to score the 4 points necessary to keep them in the race for the finals, and now find themselves sitting 6 points outside the top 8, but effectively 2 games outside (even though they have a game in hand).   The Demons had more than enough opportunities to win.  Six very easy shots on goal failed to bother the goal umpire with a major and ultimate

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    NORTH OF THE BORDER PART 2 by The Oracle

    The travelling COVID circus moves north of the border yet again and, unless at some time in the near future, Papua New Guinea opens its borders, this could be the last time this phenomenon happens. And as fortune would dictate, the resurgent Demons are walking directly into the sights of the locals from the bright lights of Brizvegas to Carrara - the scene of some long-forgotten (and deservedly so) battles with one of the Lions’ former incarnations, namely, the Brisbane Bears. But unli

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ON THE NOSE by George on the Outer

    One of the Hawthorn Football Club’s valued sponsors is Azep® Nasal Spray and given the thrashing handed out to the Hawks in today’s game, it would appear that they need a huge supply of the sponsor’s product because they are simply on the nose. This condition was caused by the sheer dominance of the Demons, led magnificently by skipper Max Gawn with 27 hitouts and 22 disposals including two clearances. Around him in the middle were Christian Petracca with 29 touches, Clayton Oliver (also on

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PREMIER LEAGUE by Whispering Jack

    So the new man under the pump is Clarko, which demonstrates how sad but predictable the football media is these days. In an age where each AFL team’s form can be topsy turvy and unpredictability is the order of the day, the coach of a team that has played five out of the top six teams from the previous season and sits with a 3/3 win loss record is this week’s whipping boy.   This comes admittedly on the back of a bad fortnight from the Hawks who in recent years have exhibited an enormous

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    SUNSMART by George on the Outer

    If you don’t want to get sunburnt, you follow the Sunsmart rules.  Melbourne took the advice and with their season on the line, avoided getting burnt by the Gold Coast Suns, with a gripping 17 point win. It was a match that could have gone either way, with the sides within a kick of each other for all but the final minutes of the final quarter. Melbourne had stretched the lead earlier in the game to 18 points, but that quickly evaporated to a neck and neck race to the finish.  Finally,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    NORTH OF THE BORDER by The Oracle

    The outcomes of Melbourne’s recent games against the Gold Coast Suns are a pretty good barometer of how the teams are faring. The Demons easily accounted for them twice in 2018, the last win being a 96-point cakewalk at the MCG in Round 20 when they scored a whopping 21.17.143 to 7.5.47. Ironically, Melbourne’s score of 9.3.57 at the first break that afternoon is leading its highest score for a full game to date this year by 3 points. In those days, they played fast, skillful football, moved th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 5

×
×
  • Create New...