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"Soft as butter": Bartlett's stinging attack on Melbourne Players



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4 hours ago, 640MD said:

Also feel "on field leadership" just goes missing at times. Needed someone to give Max a hand when he was being knocked or bumped when away from the play.  And to grab the game by the throat and force it our way.

Name a captain from Melbourne who our opposition thought could win the game off his own work. You might say Neita but I would disagree.  When Lyon was playing at Full forward, if the ball got there, he generally beat his opponent,   but he was not a  tuff  or aggressive leader,   maybe Carl Ditterich....

still disappointed abut Thursday result...we better beat Adelaide....

And if we don't ??

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Here are some of the choice words he used: "It was disgraceful.  When you pull on a Melbourne jumper, we don't give them out in Weeties packets" "You have to show respect for the jumper and

Here are a few more that I missed: "I have defended our footy department, our coaches and players my whole tenure but I can't defend that.  How can you defend that? "I said at the start of t

Scathing alright.  Never seen him react this way before. I am also glad that internally they're fuming big time.

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9 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

Since Daniher left, Goodwin is now our longest serving coach.  It's an unusual record he is putting together. Since we dropped that prelim final we've won 8 games.  We've beaten Gold Coast twice, Carlton twice, Hawthorn twice and Fremantle and Sydney once each.  4 of those games have been won by less than a goal.  It's not a stellar record by any means. 

We are entering Neeld territory now. Cannot understate the significance of this statistic. It's horrific. You can't dress it up any way. 

8 games in almost 2 years, against squib teams as they are now.

Goes back to my reply to P-Man in another thread: we seem to expect things to happen. That it has taken so long for our president and coach to get visibly and vocally angry shows that they *expected* things to turn around. When in essence the trend has been there for a while for all to see. I am actually shocked this didn't come sooner. 

The next two weeks won't tell us [censored]. Actually they will: either we are worse than we think and we lose both, or we smash both of them and we're flat track bullies. Which has been a theme since the start of the Daniher era. So really, not much will be gained. And Goodwin may get another get out of jail card and all will be rosey again until we are once again exposed by a decent team. Eyes firmly on our Collingwood game in two weeks.

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3 minutes ago, praha said:

We are entering Neeld territory now. Cannot understate the significance of this statistic. It's horrific. You can't dress it up any way. 

8 games in almost 2 years, against squib teams as they are now.

Goes back to my reply to P-Man in another thread: we seem to expect things to happen. That it has taken so long for our president and coach to get visibly and vocally angry shows that they *expected* things to turn around. When in essence the trend has been there for a while for all to see. I am actually shocked this didn't come sooner. 

The next two weeks won't tell us [censored]. Actually they will: either we are worse than we think and we lose both, or we smash both of them and we're flat track bullies. Which has been a theme since the start of the Daniher era. So really, not much will be gained. And Goodwin may get another get out of jail card and all will be rosey again until we are once again exposed by a decent team. Eyes firmly on our Collingwood game in two weeks.

Eyes firmly will be on the Kangaroos game actually. 4 day break after the Adelaide game. Absolute no walk in the walk.

This is the kind of games where we should just eat up.

Drop that one and it could be lights out for Goodwin.

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It's great that he came out and said this but honestly what good is it if we don't perform. THe club has screwed themself over with this deal for Goodwin and if he thinks we're gonna pay out that contract with money that we have raised from the members hat in hand then forget it. Fact is this is a write off year, Goodwin has stability, live with it. Once again we snookered ourself and we just have to look in the mirror.

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2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yep. That’s exactly why we always played Elimination Finals, we always choked the odd game. 
it’s been in our DNA since 1965

It goes on. . top of the ladder in 2004 with 4 rounds to go. . lose all remaining 4 games, lose the double chance, then lose to Essendon in its last finals win by less than a goal.

2006 - head to Adelaide to play a depleted Adelaide side with plenty of injuries. A win secures a top 4 spot. We got smashed.

2018 - we basically led the competition in every single stat that you want to be leading (i.e. points for, %, etc), lost crazy games like St Kilda and Sydney along the way, to cost us the double chance. Should have finished at least 2nd with home finals at the 'G.

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6 minutes ago, Northern Summer said:

It goes on. . top of the ladder in 2004 with 4 rounds to go. . lose all remaining 4 games, lose the double chance, then lose to Essendon in its last finals win by less than a goal.

2006 - head to Adelaide to play a depleted Adelaide side with plenty of injuries. A win secures a top 4 spot. We got smashed.

2018 - we basically led the competition in every single stat that you want to be leading (i.e. points for, %, etc), lost crazy games like St Kilda and Sydney along the way, to cost us the double chance. Should have finished at least 2nd with home finals at the 'G.

Yep. You got it. Lose the unloseable game badly and drop points and %
The only year i can remember being consistent was 2000 and Essendrug were never going to lose. 
Even 87 & 88 we just scraped in

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2 hours ago, binman said:

Read my previous post in this thread. Georgiades never got the better of Omac. Omac was only sporadically on him.

And he didn't kick any of his three goals when omac was on him. Which is the point i made in my post you quoted above.

In fact two, maybe all 3 of his goals were in fact at least in part Lever's fault

Your second para is just wrong sorry rusty. They didn't play through Oscar at all. 

The value of looking at the AFL pro vision and in game video is that that helps  to counter confirmation bias. And in this case i checked to make sure my recollection and assessment was overly influenced by my confirmation bias. And i was pleased to find it wasn't.

By the by the kid only had one contested mark for the night. Which had nothing to do with Omac.

Maybe goody should have run Omac on Georgiades one on one.

 

You must be watching a different game to me Bin.

Oscar was clearly marking Georgiades at the start of the match.  The first free kick is given as Port work there way off HB about 20 seconds in.  May has thrown his opponent Dixon to the ground.  Fair decision. 

As Dixon goes back to kick inside 50 from about 60 out Georgiades takes off from the square to the right side on a lead.  With Oscar ball gazing, he doesn't even appear to notice George taking off at all and doesn't bother chasing, instead ball gazing from the goal square.

Just before this, Westoff is drifting back towards the goal square from the hot zone about 20 out with Lever by his side as George begins his lead.

At this point all Port players are covered off man on man up until George begins his lead.  Tick to all other players.

Lever notices Georgiades leading as he and the Hoff hit the top of the square.  Out to the right side (Lever's left) with no one following.

Oscar is left in the square ball gazing and accidently ends up next to the Hoff as Lever lets the Hoff go back, deciding to try and cover off the George lead (albeit pretty half heartedly and half asleep also at this point) at the last second.  Lever is blocked from following (somewhat, may not have been had he gone to cover with some more urgency a half second earlier...easy to say from here and in hindsight) by Harmes' direct opponent, Rozee.

With no one following on his shoulder, George waltzes off on his easy lead under zero pressure and receives the pass from Dixon.  First Goal of the match, Port off to a flyer at the 1 minute 10 second mark of the match, setting the tone for the night off the boot of a bare boned rookie in his 4th match under zero pressure.  

While Oscar wasn't on George all night, he was on him (and the Hoff) at various stages, including the above play.  Didn't do too bad on the Hoff who played a more stay at home role (not always obviously), a tad less mobile than George.  Was he placed on the Hoff and Lever to George as a result of that first quarter?  Can't honestly say but playing the way he did in the first, Oscar may have forced the Coach's hand (line and / or Goody) after quarter time.   Mind you, Lever didn't do much better on him either during his stints.  Hence Oscar possibly being moved on to him later (again).

While not trolling through the whole replay again to find examples (too painful and can't be bothered with such a horrid match) you say George only had one contested for the night....technically maybe correct with his great pack mark with about 12 min to go in the last and his third goal for the evening.

You also claim maybe Goody should have run O-Mac on George one on one.  Well at the start of the match clearly he did.  Plus there were at least two other examples i saw he was directly manning him. 

On both other occasions probably not classified as contested as he marked uncontested after losing Oscar in these passages (too athletic / mobile)...

  • With approx 11 min to go in the first quarter,  far side wing directly against O-Mac;  And
  • With approx 5 min to go in the last quarter on the near side forward pocket leading out from the goal square.

Happy to disagree again Bin.  Oscar isn't up to it once he is matched on a half-decent forward (or better) who has a bit of burst speed and/or athletic / mobile who can also take a grab on a lead.  Deep one on one with a player who mostly plays deep, not so bad as long as they don't play too high up the ground too often and ask too many questions.

There is another great example of Oscar not staying with his man at one stage.  Think it was the third as P-Pepper runs through the middle, Oscar decides to leave Hoff.  They (Hoff & Oscar) are about 30 meters away from P-Pepper at this point ,closer to goal.  Oscar leaves the Hoff and b-lines for P-Pepper, even though there's clearly two other Demon players in front easily able to block P-Pepper's forward progress.  Luckily the pressure from the other Demons around the top of the center square meant that P-Pepper had no time to spot the Hoff on his own and he bailed a kick inside 50 towards the hot zone nowhere near the Hoff.  A strange decision to leave such a dangerous player (against us anyway) at that point, when there were already players up field much closer to P-Pepper and able to cover off.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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9 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I think Bartlett speaking out was more of a way to connect to members. He knows we’ve had enough.

Agree. But I also take the point of staying out of the media.

Maybe next time a "letter (email) to members" would be a better way to go. Direct communication to the members and the message will go out to the rest of the supporter base eventually.

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8 hours ago, demonique said:

Membership had many many emails indicating fans displeasure and a report was sent upstairs to Bartlett and Pert . I had a phone all from membership indicating that the next two matches nothing less than wins will cut it . No excuses ! Let's see what happens 

Wins! We should be winning COMFORTABLY in the next 2 games if we're serious. Wins in the next 2 games are expected, they don't mean anything. It's the performances EVERY WEEK for the remainder of the season, nothing less than 100% effort will cut it. Every week. No excuses.

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4 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

Harsh.  I said in my post they had some inexplicable fluctuations, but 5 consecutive years reaching at least the second week of finals puts them miles ahead of any other era since the 50's and 60's. We did lose games we shouldn't have, but every season between 1987 and 1991 we won between 12 and 16 matches.  We'd kill for that now. And that same Collingwood side that called us soft - we knocked them out of the finals in 88 and 89! Beating Hawthorn in that era was nigh on impossible.  We did it in 87, 88, 89 and 1990 in successive weeks.That team gave a good account.  Bitterly disappointing that we didn't grab the 1990 flag but you have to be in it to win it and they gave themselves plenty of chances.

Go back and check the records of those seasons. Every year we had a run of 4 or 5 losses in a row after the halfway mark of the season. Yeah we beat the Hawks a lot. We also lost to the Saints every year. Harsh or not, we scraped into finals most of those years when we should have clinched a double chance with games in hand.

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9 hours ago, picket fence said:

And if we don't ??

We will either have a huge upset in Coaching and FD staff, or we will all go back into our little holes and hibernate until 2021 and repeat.  When the economics are better in our favour to survive.  Probably a deliquate question in these uncertain economic times.

I don't have the answers to any of these questions, or the lotto numbers next week.   Much better if we "turn up to play"  and have a decent crack.   Not sure we have to win by 60 points. More how we play. 

I have hated "my team" being thought of as "soft" since Robinson called us out  a few yeas ago.   And watching opposition players laughing in the dugout, means that is what they are doing.  No pressure , no hardness needed by them to beat the tripe out of us.

P!sses  me  badly.

Go Dees,,,,,,,

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The crows are going to come under msssive media scrutiny this week too after their performance and they are playing us at their home ground in front of a bunch of vocal bogan supporters. 
 

I can actually see us playing the same way as Thursday night and losing. The way we played on Thursday looked like they weren’t playing for the coach. I wonder if goody has lost the players. 

Lose and the pressure continues to build. Win and well it’s the bottom side so in theory we should win. 

Will be an interesting game to watch to see who responds if we respond. 
 

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It was noted on game day , post match about our behaviours on the sidelines. Players and coaches looking confused. The ‘ Round So Far’ video with Cornes makes for some interesting viewing. 

No direction, lifeless, no buzz and no voice coming from the interchange were some words used about us coming out of the Port camp post game according to Cornes. They were surprised at how poor we were. 

We saw the Swans throw the kitchen sink at the Saints in the 3rd quarter and get within a couple of kicks before they were eventually overrun by a better team. After Port showed their hand in early in the game it seemed too hard a task by us to turn it around. Why after a solid 3 game block did we witness one of the most inept performances in the last 4 years? 

Spiritless and unprofessional on so many levels this performance. Blokes wanting to dish off the ball for the sake of it, not my responsibility you take it and do something. That’s what it looked like to me all night. 

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Rusty, agree we are watching a different game. 

I am watching a game where mfc employ a zone defence. 

Like Gary Lyon you seem to be watching a game where zones don't exist and defenders are responsible for the player they line up against after a goal. 

No disrespect meanr but if you think omac 'accidentally was left on ' westhoff with that first goal then you dont get how zones work.

That is who he was supposed to go to. If he doesn't the zone is rhrown out of whack and you get that scene where everyone us pointing fingers at each other. Something that happens all the time when zones don't work.

Zones rely on everyone playing their role and synergy. Omac has to trust that lever takes rhe hand off so he can do his job and take Hoff in the square.

Lever did take that hand off but was a bit slow to react and gave the young fella the space he needed.

And by the by that was a set play by port designed specifically to break down a zone. Something they would have practiced at training hundred of time. Teams look to exploit that moment of hand off between players.

Edited by binman
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11 minutes ago, binman said:

Rusty, agree we are watching a different game. 

I am watching a game where mfc employ a zone defence. 

Like Gary Lyon you seem to be watching a game where zones don't exist and defenders are responsible for the player they line up against after a goal. 

No disrespect but if you think omac 'accidentally was left on ' westhoff with that first goal ten you dont get how zones work. That is who iwas supposed to go to. If he doesn't the zone is growth out of whack and yoy get that scene where everyone us pointing fingers at each other.

Again he became levers man, and lever was slow to react which gave him the space to mark.

Defending begins from your fwd 50 plus mids..ours was no existent..  the ball was flying out of our fwd 50 with zero pressure...Not sure what’s happened to Roos foundations of playing both ways...

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https://www.afl.com.au/video/479660/lifeless-no-buzz-no-direction-the-confused-coach-on-notice?videoId=479660&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1596320553001
 

Kane Cornes is a bit of a beat up merchant, but the Jungle Drums are beating. The title in this link is referring to Goody - the piece is around the 11:30 minute mark. Cornes basically says that his Port Adelaide people were saying that the Demons were confused and had no direction.

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28 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Defending begins from your fwd 50 plus mids..ours was no existent..  the ball was flying out of our fwd 50 with zero pressure...Not sure what’s happened to Roos foundations of playing both ways...

Totally agree.

All team defence is the buzz phrase.

And when it breaks down the defensive zone gets pulled apart and looks like a disorganized rabble.

And people watching cant help but wonder how opposition forwards have so much space. 

When we are all on we do it, like the hawks and lions game. But too often we have too many passengers who don't do the required gut running. Only Langdon and sparrow looked like they did against port.

A new player go the club and a kid in his second year.

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I'm in favour of Bartlett's comments. I know there have been a few who have queried whether it's appropriate for him to have unloaded on the entire club. IMO, it is.

If there was any thought in the minds of the coaches or players that they had indefinite/unlimited time to work on their issues, this messaging indicates that is not correct.

We have problems. They need to be fixed. And we can't wait forever for them to be fixed.

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On 8/1/2020 at 11:21 AM, SFebes said:

Reluctant to post as it’s all too depressing our current state. I’d hate to say it but it seems to me like Goodwin has lost the players and there’s definitely fractures within the club. For Bartlett to come out like this screams of panic, it’s unusual, he tried to create stability for once sticking with Goodwin and extending his contract after scraping into finals but he’s just the wrong coach. 

These issues haven’t just started either, I’ve been banging on about them for a couple of years. Goodwin was the wrong choice as coach considering his background (gambling and injections), the club couldn’t and can’t afford another rookie. Camp, Brayshaw issue, Hogan, ridiculous contract extensions, McCartney, Jones should’ve retired two years ago, captaincy x 2, recruits - May and Lever have been a fail so far and cost us $1.5m pa, Tomlinson and Langdon fails also, no gameplan - same crap every single week, it’s like pulling teeth...this has been going on for years! There’s only so much bash and crash and bruising you can take as a player before it becomes enough, great we win contested footy and get the most entries but we are so poorly coached it isn’t funny. It’s the same issue week after week. There is no tactical nous from Goodwin, his one and only saviour was TomMc forward which worked for a while but he just doesn’t do anything as coach. Don’t even get me started on team selections over the last few years (yes years).

2018 we got on a roll but had an easy draw and from memory didn’t beat a top 8 side all year at time of playing them. The same issues were there all of that year also. 

It still makes me wonder why Roos left in a hurry and didn’t take up his role overseeing Goodwin, then Roos’ team left when he did. 

He might be a nice bloke, I don’t know, but he’s certainly an incapable AFL coach. We need Clarkson or Lyon. And it needs to happen before it’s too late. Goodwin is way out of his depth. 

Why do we have to be so revisionist about 2018?

We beat West Coast in Perth and GWS at the G in the final two rounds, both of whom were top 8 sides.

We finished the H&A year with more wins over the 2018 top 8 than Collingwood did. Our draw was no "easier" than Collingwood's, in fact it was harder.

It's all largely irrelevant to the current discussion but I just cannot stand people making up sh*t about 2018 to suit their current narrative.

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11 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

.  

Oscar was clearly marking Georgiades at the start of the match.  The first free kick is given as Port work there way off HB about 20 seconds in.  May has thrown his opponent Dixon to the ground.  Fair decision. 

As Dixon goes back to kick inside 50 from about 60 out Georgiades takes off from the square to the right side on a lead.  With Oscar ball gazing, he doesn't even appear to notice George taking off at all and doesn't bother chasing, instead ball gazing from the goal square.

Just before this, Westoff is drifting back towards the goal square from the hot zone about 20 out with Lever by his side as George begins his lead.

At this point all Port players are covered off man on man up until George begins his lead.  Tick to all other players.

Lever notices Georgiades leading as he and the Hoff hit the top of the square.  Out to the right side (Lever's left) with no one following.

Oscar is left in the square ball gazing and accidently ends up next to the Hoff as Lever lets the Hoff go back, deciding to try and cover off the George lead (albeit pretty half heartedly and half asleep also at this point) at the last second.  Lever is blocked from following (somewhat, may not have been had he gone to cover with some more urgency a half second earlier...easy to say from here and in hindsight) by Harmes' direct opponent, Rozee.

With no one following on his shoulder, George waltzes off on his easy lead under zero pressure and receives the pass from Dixon.  First Goal of the match, Port off to a flyer at the 1 minute 10 second mark of the match, setting the tone for the night off the boot of a bare boned rookie in his 4th match under zero pressure.  

...

 

2 hours ago, binman said:

...

That is who he was supposed to go to. If he doesn't the zone is rhrown out of whack and you get that scene where everyone us pointing fingers at each other. Something that happens all the time when zones don't work.

Zones rely on everyone playing their role and synergy. Omac has to trust that lever takes rhe hand off so he can do his job and take Hoff in the square.

Lever did take that hand off but was a bit slow to react and gave the young fella the space he needed.

And by the by that was a set play by port designed specifically to break down a zone. Something they would have practiced at training hundred of time. Teams look to exploit that moment of hand off between players.

This exchange shows some fantastic analysis from both of you, cheers for talking technical football!

IMOs Rusty's description is exactly what happened and binman, your analysis of the zones is correct. We play a game where players need to leave their direct opponent to cover. We've seen this for a decade in AFL but its rarely shown well on tv.

The stand out for me in the piece was actually how we allowed the player to get the easy block on Lever. He looked half hearted, but honestly that's because by the time it happened there was nothing he could do.

Lever and OMac were fine with their player swap. That's how positional defenders play.

You can see Harmes got sucked towards the ball, and his player dropped back and blocked the space in front of Lever forcing him to run wide. In that situation, Harmes needed to play as part of the zone rather than man on man, but he didn't. I think the reason he didn't is the great big hole in front of him that TMac (next to the umpire) and Gawn jogged towards the goals: if they had pushed a touch harder into that space, Harmes wouldn't have had to choose between defending the lead and protecting the block. 

Once it was clear the lead was off Harmes rejoined the zone and pushed hard to try and cover Georgidaes, but he didn't get there.

TMac, howver, jogged into nowhere when the kick came in. He was front on, watching the lead unfold and should have seen the block on Lever that gave Georgiades space and run to him. Even if he didn't push hard the first time to block the hole, he should have seen the block happen, and pushed to cover Georidaes, but he continued to jog towards no man's land (not the lead block and not the hot spot - Georiades). When he finally did react (later than either Harmes or Langdon) and move towards the right position, it was too late. 

Note, TMac was the spare player and needed to hit the contrst. Langdon was reluctant to go hard because that would have left his man free at the fall of the ball. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

https://www.afl.com.au/video/479660/lifeless-no-buzz-no-direction-the-confused-coach-on-notice?videoId=479660&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1596320553001
 

Cornes basically says that his Port Adelaide people were saying that the Demons were confused and had no direction.

That’s what I thought when I was at the game on Thursday night. This caused extra pressure which resulted in turnovers. 

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    A- Alice Springs. Happy hunting ground.     B- Backline. Finally found the non-leaking version.   C- Cairns & Covid. How a season was ruined.    D- Demonland. Mental Health facility run by the inmates.   E- The grade you get when you don’t make F- F- Finals. What are they? G- Goals. Lack of them. Need a forward who can kick them….lots! H- Hub. Where players got to live with people you can’t stand. I- Injuries. Miracle cure provided by Dr. Burgess.  

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    WASH, RINSE, SPIN, REPEAT! by George On The Outer

    Although the Demons got over the line in their must win final round game against the hapless Bombers, they ensured it was Groundhog Day for their supporters who well remember what happened three years ago (although, this time they at least enjoyed the success of victory). Melbourne had its customary start dominating play and having plenty of chances in front of goal, only to find itself down on the scoreboard at the first change. Inaccurate kicking, particularly from set shots would have pu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE LUCK OF THE DRAW by Whispering Jack

    The long awaited clash between Melbourne and Essendon is almost upon us. Thirty-seven rounds of AFL football have passed by since the two clubs met on a balmy early April night last year in a game that produced a high scoring shootout at the MCG with the Bombers prevailing by 18 points. It was their only meeting for 2019 and happened at a time when the pandemic was something on the far distant horizon. Several months later when the 2019 season ended, the AFL issued the first of its fixtures

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THERE’S STILL A HEARTBEAT by George on the Outer

    When bottom side Adelaide scrapped together a win over the Giants last week, a tiny glimmer of hope opened up for the Demons’ finals chances. The patient was in intensive care but not quite finished — there was a faint pulse, a heart beating ever so slightly but was it enough when two more wins and other results were needed to fall their way? The first step was the resuscitation of a team that had lost its last two matches against sides then sitting fifteenth and sixteenth on the ladder. On

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 1

    THE FINAL HUMILIATION by The Oracle

    On Sunday, the Melbourne Football Club that won three consecutive games by in excess of 50 points last month returns to the Gabba, the scene of the last of those victories which was a 56 point drubbing of Collingwood. The Demons got off to a good start and won every quarter with a ruthless and powerful brand of football. They kicked 16 goals that day, their accuracy in front of goal a tribute to the skills the put on display throughout the afternoon and evening. In the four matches playe

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    GIVEN THE OLD HEAVE HO’ by George on the Outer

    Fremantle gave Melbourne the old heave ho’ from playing finals in 2020, in conditions that the Demons yet again failed to handle.   With the whole season on the line and the need to win to stay in contention for finals, what the fans saw was much the same as they have been witnessing so many times before — a complete debacle and capitulation against a side that sat 15th on the ladder before the game.     Promises made after the loss to the 16th placed Sydney Swans were rendered h

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports


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