POSTGAME: Rd 07 vs Hawthorn

[one_demon 826]

17 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

... for me unless we decide to play 3 talls, I'd stick with the two that are making the most of their opportunity to play. 

That was my next question.  Can we play three talls? Looks like it will end up that way when TMac returns.

[picket fence 15,095]

14 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Woewodin.. but Mitchell is closing in on that  really quickly.

Was Peter Moore that good at Melbourne ?? I thought Rob had a better year. also Teasdale was average at best!

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

26 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Watching the game noticing Bolton saying something to Clarkson in the coaches box, Clarko looks despondent looking away.

What could he have said to him?

"Woooh .. more COVID cases in Melbourne today ... looks like we'll be roomies for a few more weeks yet, eh?"

[binman 37,910]

2 hours ago, DeePressed said:

 

Making Weid, Bennell, Jackson, OMac earn their spots has proved a good decision. 

 

A good point.

No doubt we are better structurally with Omac and Weed in the team.

And i was really disappointed Harley didn't play against the cats and even more so the tigers.

But a big part of coaching is man management and goody may well have decided he was prepared to risk losing the war to win the battle with all three players.  

[DemonOX 8,529]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

Yep, possibly. But that's a really good thing is it not?

It is a good thing Binman but bloody hell it took him long enough. Hopefully he continues on this path rather than the alternative.

[Binmans PA 25,969]

42 minutes ago, one_demon said:

I liked Jackson's game but I'm not sure he can hold down a key forward position.

In some respects the KPF role in modern footy is easier than perhaps it once was. As long as you're willing to work hard and bring physicality, you're often doing your job.

If you recall Jack Riewoldt's year in 2017, he was all about simply creating a contest and bringing the ball to ground, whereas he'd previously been all about Jack.

That's a lot of what Weideman and Jackson did yesterday and that's all they need to do when they're up the ground.

Weideman is the guy that is probably going to play deeper more often, so as long as he's clunking marks and competing, our two young KPFs will hold down their spots IMO.

Edited July 20, 2020 by A F

[Lord Travis 10,158]

Petraccaaaaaaaa

[sue 8,417]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

What the hell we would we know, collectively we have 50000 sets of eyes and 25000 brains!

Yeah, and about 25000 different opinions. 

[picket fence 15,095]

20 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep, okay, Goody deserves a lot of credit, but just maybe, he's started to listen to the assistants around him too?

Nar more like listened to the Brains Trust that is Demonland telling him to play Weeds from round 1 for a start might have had a lot to do with it!?

[binman 37,910]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

I want to know what Harmes' role was yesterday before I make judgements. I may be wrong but I think he was playing on Smith, who regularly destroys us. If so, he did an excellent job as Smith was basically invisible. He also appeared to play a little more forward, which I don't mind, but of course that will lower his stats. 

i find it all but impossible to work out who is playing on watching on TV (with some obvious exceptions - some key forwards, rucks, mids being tagged). Why don't they tell us? Would a graphic be that hard or some analysis be that hard?

Anyway i digress. As i mentioned a few times last year and the year before people with the AFL live pass  (tesltra customers and i assume AFL subscribers? - not sure how that works) can access AFL stats pro on AFL.com where you can of watch vision every involvement of every player.

Fantastic tool. I assume the clubs and players use this vision to reflect on individual player''s games

I have used it this year (in 2018 and 2019 i was mostly on Omac watch) but might have look at Harmes' or Smith's involvements because i wondering who was on Smith too. Did bugger all. 

I''m also curious who Lochart and Jetta played on. And who was on Sicily (or vice versa)

i'll have a look tonight and post my findings!

[binman 37,910]

16 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

"Woooh .. more COVID cases in Melbourne today ... looks like we'll be roomies for a few more weeks yet, eh?"

More like:

'I reckon the blues will win flag, maybe two before the Hawks even make finals again - 

Al can i ask a serous question. Be honest. I value 360 degree feedback.

I ran the blues into the ground, got sacked and now they are flying. Bloody exciting footy they play too.

I came to the hawks the year after they made a semi and we have been on the slide since. Pretty dull game plan too i must say.

If i bail will you give me a reference, like the one that landed me the blues gig?''

[leave it to deever 15,312]

Max seems to be getting more nimble at ground level for a bloke that tall its an interesting dimension to his game.

Now crumbing his own handiwork.

[Go the Biff 3,127]

4 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Having the right mix of forwards has been the biggest reason for the improvement.

In fact, it's no coincidence that the last two weeks when team selections have been less cute and more addressing fundamental problems that the team has played better.

That plus space.

You might recall Garry Lyon's comment last week when Weid took a one on one mark against Lukosios. "First, I'm glad he wasn't part of an 18 man defensive press". I thought he'd nicked my hymn book.

TV angles make it hard to be definitive but it appears we are keeping one forward deep. At different times it was Weid, Fritta or Jackson. This means the oppo defence has to defend at least 50 metres of space and they're forced to adjust their zone to what we're doing. More green grass for them to guard, more green grass for us to run into.

Earlier in the year, in fact for a lot of Goodwin's tenure, our forwards would all push up too much. They'd compress themselves into a 25-30 metre area, limiting our targets for players delivering into F50 and making it easy for oppo defences to control their zone. WCE pretty much ringfenced our entire forward line with ridiculous ease..

Additionally, it appears we've discontinued the practice of flooding our own F50 with mids. Whether this is a coaching directive or simply a product of improved F50 efficiency remains to be seen.

[dieter 3,325]

JUst watched the replay. Very convincing performance. The only downside I could see was Brayshaw and VandenBerg's disposal. A really well-balanced side.

[Nasher 33,047]

Jeez, they’re a bit slow off the mark on posting All the Goals (with thanks to Haymes Paint). Surely that’s what the media team start working on the minute they start work on Monday morning - if not, they have their priorities all wrong!

[titan_uranus 22,279]

5 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

That plus space.

You might recall Garry Lyon's comment last week when Weid took a one on one mark against Lukosios. "First, I'm glad he wasn't part of an 18 man defensive press". I thought he'd nicked my hymn book.

TV angles make it hard to be definitive but it appears we are keeping one forward deep. At different times it was Weid, Fritta or Jackson. This means the oppo defence has to defend at least 50 metres of space and they're forced to adjust their zone to what we're doing. More green grass for them to guard, more green grass for us to run into.

Earlier in the year, in fact for a lot of Goodwin's tenure, our forwards would all push up too much. They'd compress themselves into a 25-30 metre area, limiting our targets for players delivering into F50 and making it easy for oppo defences to control their zone. WCE pretty much ringfenced our entire forward line with ridiculous ease..

Additionally, it appears we've discontinued the practice of flooding our own F50 with mids. Whether this is a coaching directive or simply a product of improved F50 efficiency remains to be seen.

I think this is critical.

There were more wide shots on the TV yesterday and we seemed to keep at least one, sometimes two or three, forwards deeper. It means we regularly have forwards leading up at the ball carrier when we're on half-back or the wing. 

In order for it to work, it requires us to have someone able to compete on the wings, hence why playing two tall forwards helps (bring Weid up to the wing to contest, leave Jackson deep for a target inside 50, or vice versa, including Fritsch). 

[Gawn for good 3]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Yep, possibly. But that's a really good thing is it not?

Yep definitely ? 

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

Anyone else notice some of our midfielders (Oliver, Petracca, Bennell, AvB) prowling in our d50?  Hawks didn't follow them; not sure GCS did either. 

Big help to defenders and I reckon that is a key to our recent effectiveness of our attacking from the back 50 and getting our running game going.   Need to watch the replay again but it looked as if defenders didn't have to defend so high up the ground.

Our mids are two-way running, at last!

 

Edit:  Anyone know on which website player 'heat maps' are located and how to gain access?  Cheers.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Nasher 33,047]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Yep, okay, Goody deserves a lot of credit, but just maybe, he's started to listen to the assistants around him too?

This is just inventing what happens in the box, just to suit narrative/agenda. Goody’s started listening to his assistants and now we’re good. Or Goody’s stopped listening to his muppet assistants and become an authoritarian, and that’s what has made us good. Or, the most likely thing, the relationship with the assistants is the same as it always was, and they’ve arrived at the right chemistry by chipping away at the problem together.

We don’t know though, so we shouldn’t guess. In my view if we’re prepared to unreservedly put the blow torch on Goodwin when we’re struggling then we have to be prepared to give him all the credit when we’re flying. Anything otherwise is complete double standards.

For the record, I do neither.

[Binmans PA 25,969]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

This is just inventing what happens in the box, just to suit narrative/agenda. Goody’s started listening to his assistants and now we’re good. Or Goody’s stopped listening to his muppet assistants and become an authoritarian, and that’s what has made us good. Or, the most likely thing, the relationship with the assistants is the same as it always was, and they’ve arrived at the right chemistry by chipping away at the problem together.

We don’t know though, so we shouldn’t guess. In my view if we’re prepared to unreservedly put the blow torch on Goodwin when we’re struggling then we have to be prepared to give him all the credit when we’re flying. Anything otherwise is complete double standards.

For the record, I do neither.

I'm only going on what I've been told.

[binman 37,910]

2 minutes ago, Nasher said:

 Goody’s stopped listening to his muppet assistants and become an authoritarian

So can i be clear Nasher.

What you are saying is that Goody has stopped listening to his muppet assistants and become an authoritarian.

Name your source - or are you just pitting stuff out there to stir up trouble?

[Nasher 33,047]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

I'm only going on what I've been told.

Fair enough. Over the years I have formed a pretty healthy disregard for what “sources” say on matters like this which are completely subjective. Even if Troy Chaplin himself was my best mate and told me that the newfound success was because Goodwin started listening, I’d still treat it with skepticism because I know if I asked Goodwin he’d say he’s always listened to his assistants. Perspective and facts aren’t the same thing, so I think we shouldn’t treat them as such when we’re so far away from the situation.

[Willmoy1947 3,769]

Two things, how important Langdon's contribution was 17 handballs and kicks with pace/space that he might not get this week.

Was anyone injured? thought i noticed a slight limp from one.

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

42 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Jeez, they’re a bit slow off the mark on posting All the Goals (with thanks to Haymes Paint). Surely that’s what the media team start working on the minute they start work on Monday morning - if not, they have their priorities all wrong!

The video in this 'Highlights' article  looks more like All The Goals.  https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/745914/rd-7-highlights?videoId=745914&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1595111709001

 

If anyone can tell me how to directly post a video from an article it would be appreciated.

[Binmans PA 25,969]

5 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Fair enough. Over the years I have formed a pretty healthy disregard for what “sources” say on matters like this which are completely subjective. Even if Troy Chaplin himself was my best mate and told me that the newfound success was because Goodwin started listening, I’d still treat it with skepticism because I know if I asked Goodwin he’d say he’s always listened to his assistants. Perspective and facts aren’t the same thing, so I think we shouldn’t treat them as such when we’re so far away from the situation.

To be fair, I said we could credit both Goodwin and maybe a newfound willingness to listen to his assistants as well.

In terms of agenda, I want Goodwin to succeed, but I have no idea whether he will or not. 

Rarely are such matters ever one thing. From my perspective, I'm simply saying it's not all Goodwin's fault when we play poorly and not all Goodwin's great work when we play beautifully.

I have certainly never placed all the blame for our previous woes at Goodwin's feet. I have previously stated I question those around him just as much as Goodwin. So when we've shown improvement, I think it's important that we acknowledge the work of everyone involved for precisely the reason you've outlined - to avoid the obvious double standard.