The Oscar McDonald Appreciation Thread

[Dee Zephyr 17,310]

I thought he did his job well along with May and Lever. Yeah you can always pick out one passage of play but you can lament a play from any given player on the day. 

Fact is the Lions generated 27 shots at goal from their 42 inside 50 (64%). Extremely high i would have thought.

18 were registered scores with Hipwood and McStay kicking a combined 1.2 and no goal assists. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Dee Zephyr

[binman 37,797]

46 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

I thought he did his job well along with May and Lever. Yeah you can always pick out one passage of play but you can lament a play from any given player on the day. 

Fact is the Lions generated 27 shots at goal from their 42 inside 50 (64%). Extremely high i would have thought.

18 were registered scores with Hipwood and McStay kicking a combined 1.2 and no goal assists. 

Exactly DZ. Once again it was there opposition smalls and mediums that hurts us.

And that is because we turn it over too often, have a number of players who struggle to get back and cover free opposition players running into space (either because they are slow or unwilling - or both)  and with Jetts not in great form (and now too slow it must be said, sadly) we have a defensive weakness with our small defenders

Their goals were kicked by smalls and mediums, and really Cameron was their only forward who kicked goals. And even one of his was after he ran from outside 50.

Which goes to my point of some people not understanding how football is played these days. 

All that said, a bit of context is important. Look at the scores we have conceded this year. Our defense is not the issue. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by binman

[Buzzy 919]

1 hour ago, binman said:

He is a whipping boy because so many people simply do not understand modern football.

As an example he is not fast. But his relative lack of speed is often highlighted and exacerbated by the position he plays in our structure.

When the ball is up the ground and in our hands we have a triangle with may, lever and omac as it's points, with omac deep as a sweeper.

If we turn it over - as we so often do - the ball comes in fast to an open opposition forward line (which is incidentally how we concede the majority of out goals).

And if it gets past the final line, that leaves omac to try and scramble to get across to any free player,  making him look reactive and slow.

But he usually gets there which is why he often leads our one percenters.

The real questions should be why did we turn it over and who was supposed to run with the opposition player who has run into space, so often a small.

Langdon has been huge for us in this respect as he is one player who has the tank and speed (and perhaps more importantly the desire) to get back hard defensively. 

And weak? Please. Out marked once by McStray who is a pretty solid fella. If they were concerned about his strength may would have taken him.

Speaking of may, would you call him weak? He got put muscled by hippwood. A player who does not get wet in the shower.

'Don't understand Modern Football'? 

What a load of sanctimonious rubbish.  Modern Football requires athleticism and players that aren't one trick ponies, i.e those lumbering low possession defenders without an attacking side, who can't move or think quickly enough to help rebound from D50.  He struggles more than others when he has to get across to the free players because of HIS limitations.

It's not our structure that makes him look reactive and slow.  He is literally just reactive and slow as a person. Yes he plays 'a role' but it's a severely limited one, which is always going to leave our team at a disadvantage in pressure situations against the better teams.  We may as well be one short when it hits the deck. HE IS INCREDIBLY SLOW and can't think his way through tight situations.

Yes, we probably don't have anything better to bring in right now - but everyone can see how limited he is, he's not a whipping for no reason.  Blaming the Structure is just an excuse for those limitations. 

 

 

[Robbie57 1,990]

Our backs have looked a much better unit with OMAc there. Jetts had a shocker, possibly caused by the head trauma. Omac got one of the random holding the ball calls, who knows what that rule is now. 

[binman 37,797]

2 hours ago, Buzzy said:

'Don't understand Modern Football'? 

What a load of sanctimonious rubbish.  Modern Football requires athleticism and players that aren't one trick ponies, i.e those lumbering low possession defenders without an attacking side, who can't move or think quickly enough to help rebound from D50.  He struggles more than others when he has to get across to the free players because of HIS limitations.

It's not our structure that makes him look reactive and slow.  He is literally just reactive and slow as a person. Yes he plays 'a role' but it's a severely limited one, which is always going to leave our team at a disadvantage in pressure situations against the better teams.  We may as well be one short when it hits the deck. HE IS INCREDIBLY SLOW and can't think his way through tight situations.

Yes, we probably don't have anything better to bring in right now - but everyone can see how limited he is, he's not a whipping for no reason.  Blaming the Structure is just an excuse for those limitations. 

 

 

Seriously Buzzy? 

He is literally just reactive and slow as a person?

He plays one of the hardest positions in the side, one that requires an elite ability to read the play and know where to be. As evidence of this ability his captain has said he is the best reader of the game in the team and has been effusive in his praise for omac and the key role he plays in the defense unit.

The proof is in the pudding, we have looked much, much better since he has come in to the team. Only someone who doesn't get it would suggest that is happenstance.

And leaving his role and importance in the structure aside has he done his job as key defender. His direct opponents have barely taken a mark or kicked a goal on him this year.

Don't believe me? Go back and look a the stats of his opponents. And then compare those to stats to his much more highly paid and rated teammates Lever and may 

How many goals did Mcstay kick yesterday? That's right zero. And he only took 3 marks for the game, with only one being contested (that last one).

Compare that to Hipwood who was May's opponent. May did a good job, no one has suggested he didn't. But his opponent kicked a goal and took two contested marks, one being a critical one in the last quarter where string bean hipwood beat him dead to rights one on one.

And May cost us the first goal of the game with yet another shocking turnover, this one under no pressure from a kick out. 

Given you assessment of Omac his hundredth game of AFL football next year will come as surprise to you.

Sanctimonious? Perhaps. Be that as it may, you simply don't get it. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by binman

[titan_uranus 22,220]

3 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

I thought he did his job well along with May and Lever. Yeah you can always pick out one passage of play but you can lament a play from any given player on the day. 

Fact is the Lions generated 27 shots at goal from their 42 inside 50 (64%). Extremely high i would have thought.

18 were registered scores with Hipwood and McStay kicking a combined 1.2 and no goal assists. 

27 shots on goal? 7.11 is 18 scores, so what were the other 9? OOB/fell short?

[Grimes Times 1,278]

15 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Played an ok game but geez you could see him visible start to shrink towards the end there. Second guess himself with attack on the ball and get caught deer in the headlights with it.

A big question I'd have is why did he play 97% of game time, with Lever playing 100% and May 95%.

Surely we rotate these big boys a bit more and make sure they don't tire out come crunch time.

Allows the mids to have more rest and be fresher. Shorter quarters, longer breaks the KPP dont need that much of rest

Andrews 100%

Gardiner 98%

McStay 97%

Hipwood 96%

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

5 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

Allows the mids to have more rest and be fresher. Shorter quarters, longer breaks the KPP dont need that much of rest

Andrews 100%

Gardiner 98%

McStay 97%

Hipwood 96%

I understand the theory of it but I think given we have the 3 talls I wonder if we need to do it. The Lions 3rd tall defender right now is Lester who played 91% and they had Rich off for the second half. Their key forwards played a full game because they didn't trust Archie Smith to do more than short stints in the ruck. I reckon we could just give each of the big boys a little less time. 

[Binmans PA 25,899]

15 hours ago, binman said:

Once again it was not the opposition bigs that hurt us. It was their smalls and mediums.

We were  statistically even in almost every key stat (though they edged is in clearances). Except ground balls.

I hate to say it but I think jetts might have played his last game of AFL football. Looked slow. Has in the games he has played this year. And gifted Cameron his first because he has lost his confidence getting getting the ground ball.

They had to move Hibberd to him, which meant he couldn't be as offensive.

I like Lockhart back there. Rivers seems the obvious one to come back in but that would be two inexperienced small defenders.

I'm happy with Rivers coming in, because if it's experience we want, that is because we'd expect composure in important situations. The goal Nev gave away was the complete opposite.

Nev's one of my favourites, but I'd be happy to have Lockhart, Rivers, Hibberd and Salem as the small/medium defenders, supporting Oscar, May and Lever. Lockhart is a reasonable kick. Rivers is a nice kick, Salem is a nice kick and Hibberd is a good dasher, so those latter three offer nice defensive rebound, something that was so strong in our 2018 game. May is similar really, so I like what we're building back there and Nev, unfortunately doesn't seem to fit that role anymore.

I'd bring in Rivers and keep Nev as a back up. We'll definitely need Nev with the condensed fixturing this year, so maybe a fresher Nev picks that ball up last night?

As for being in almost every stat, they didn't edge us in clearances. They mauled us. And our clearance game is what we pride ourselves on. I have no doubt even in 2018 (let alone 2019), if we'd been smashed in the clearances like that, we'd have lost by 7 or 8 goals easily. So our team defence has definitely improved and to me it's because we've got the balance of two tall KPBs and a tall interceptor in Lever.

When we're losing clearance, our defenders (and I know this is hard to say but...) need to be bolder with their ball movement and taking the game on. This will generate scores for us despite losing contested possession.

I remember watching that great Geelong side under Thompson. The team had such confidence in itself that no matter the situation, their defenders would take the game on. Once they've spent more game time alongside each other, that's the next step in our defence's evolution.

[Binmans PA 25,899]

15 hours ago, rjay said:

With Robbie Grey running around that could prove dangerous.

...but Nev is badly out of form/touch/confidence

I'd actually play Harmes on Gray. 

[Dee Zephyr 17,310]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

27 shots on goal? 7.11 is 18 scores, so what were the other 9? OOB/fell short?

I’m guessing they count those that fall short and OOB titan. For example, there was a snap at  goal by them to the left of screen and the ball shanked backwards about 30 metres and landed to an unmarked Robinson. We had 17 shots at goal according to the stats.

[binman 37,797]

3 hours ago, A F said:

I'm happy with Rivers coming in, because if it's experience we want, that is because we'd expect composure in important situations. The goal Nev gave away was the complete opposite.

Nev's one of my favourites, but I'd be happy to have Lockhart, Rivers, Hibberd and Salem as the small/medium defenders, supporting Oscar, May and Lever. Lockhart is a reasonable kick. Rivers is a nice kick, Salem is a nice kick and Hibberd is a good dasher, so those latter three offer nice defensive rebound, something that was so strong in our 2018 game. May is similar really, so I like what we're building back there and Nev, unfortunately doesn't seem to fit that role anymore.

I'd bring in Rivers and keep Nev as a back up. We'll definitely need Nev with the condensed fixturing this year, so maybe a fresher Nev picks that ball up last night?

As for being in almost every stat, they didn't edge us in clearances. They mauled us. And our clearance game is what we pride ourselves on. I have no doubt even in 2018 (let alone 2019), if we'd been smashed in the clearances like that, we'd have lost by 7 or 8 goals easily. So our team defence has definitely improved and to me it's because we've got the balance of two tall KPBs and a tall interceptor in Lever.

When we're losing clearance, our defenders (and I know this is hard to say but...) need to be bolder with their ball movement and taking the game on. This will generate scores for us despite losing contested possession.

I remember watching that great Geelong side under Thompson. The team had such confidence in itself that no matter the situation, their defenders would take the game on. Once they've spent more game time alongside each other, that's the next step in our defence's evolution.

Really terrific post A F.

I  read the stats after the game on scrolling across the bottom of the screen and was amazed how close almost all were, which is why the ground ball differential jumped out. Realised i must have misread the clearances when i read WJ's post a little while ago with that stat.

You are right we got smashed didn't we. Totally agree on what that would have meant for us in previous seasons and how much our  defence must have approved to avoid that.

I made the point in another post that our defence has been terrific all season, and even last year really. When was the last time we were flogged?  Teams are finding it super hard to score against us. Have done since mid 2018 Kept us in that game yesterday.

Credit where it is due, a big reason why our defence works so well is the zones, systems and structure Goody has put in place, and not just those in the back six. Look at how often teams get stuck now moving it forward. 

And i total agree we our fence should be a bit bolder with their ball movement and taking the game on. I was thinking exactly that in the second quarter. May looks to sometimes, Omac less so and Lever never.

On Lever (who i think has been really good in the last few games).  He often does not even look to the fat side and just goes down the line very time. Often to max, but even if he marks it the opposition are all set up on that side.

Ironically on the utterly stupid and frustrating score review we took an attacking option only for it to come back and have that option taken away (hear that Alanis, that is ironic) 

 

 

[Binmans PA 25,899]

14 minutes ago, binman said:

Really terrific post A F.

I  read the stats after the game on scrolling across the bottom of the screen and was amazed how close almost all were, which is why the ground ball differential jumped out. Realised i must have misread the clearances when i read WJ's post a little while ago with that stat.

You are right we got smashed didn't we. Totally agree on what that would have meant for us in previous seasons and how much our  defence must have approved to avoid that.

I made the point in another post that our defence has been terrific all season, and even last year really. When was the last time we were flogged?  Teams are finding it super hard to score against us. Have done since mid 2018 Kept us in that game yesterday.

Credit where it is due, a big reason why our defence works so well is the zones, systems and structure Goody has put in place, and not just those in the back six. Look at how often teams get stuck now moving it forward. 

And i total agree we our fence should be a bit bolder with their ball movement and taking the game on. I was thinking exactly that in the second quarter. May looks to sometimes, Omac less so and Lever never.

On Lever (who i think has been really good in the last few games).  He often does not even look to the fat side and just goes down the line very time. Often to max, but even if he marks it the opposition are all set up on that side.

Ironically on the utterly stupid and frustrating score review we took an attacking option only for it to come back and have that option taken away (hear that Alanis, that is ironic) 

This season, I'm happy enough to back in the defenders if they're taking the game on. They may a mistake or two, as long as they're creating more chances going the other way. This is what Clarkson would do. He'd expect boldness and if players couldn't execute, he'd eventual replace them with those he thinks would get the job done.

That's the philosophy I'd be taking this year with our group. If there's a glimmer, pull the trigger and play bold. Use the corridor, play bravely and then, most importantly, be prepared to play slow and carefully where appropriate.

I think this balance between slow and fast play is still a work in progress and we don't always get the balance right. If / when we do, there's no reason why this system and team can't be a bonafide top 2 team for a sustained period.

Edited July 27, 2020 by A F

[dazzledavey36 48,655]

5 hours ago, A F said:

I'm happy with Rivers coming in, because if it's experience we want, that is because we'd expect composure in important situations. The goal Nev gave away was the complete opposite.

Nev's one of my favourites, but I'd be happy to have Lockhart, Rivers, Hibberd and Salem as the small/medium defenders, supporting Oscar, May and Lever. Lockhart is a reasonable kick. Rivers is a nice kick, Salem is a nice kick and Hibberd is a good dasher, so those latter three offer nice defensive rebound, something that was so strong in our 2018 game. May is similar really, so I like what we're building back there and Nev, unfortunately doesn't seem to fit that role anymore.

I'd bring in Rivers and keep Nev as a back up. We'll definitely need Nev with the condensed fixturing this year, so maybe a fresher Nev picks that ball up last night?

As for being in almost every stat, they didn't edge us in clearances. They mauled us. And our clearance game is what we pride ourselves on. I have no doubt even in 2018 (let alone 2019), if we'd been smashed in the clearances like that, we'd have lost by 7 or 8 goals easily. So our team defence has definitely improved and to me it's because we've got the balance of two tall KPBs and a tall interceptor in Lever.

When we're losing clearance, our defenders (and I know this is hard to say but...) need to be bolder with their ball movement and taking the game on. This will generate scores for us despite losing contested possession.

I remember watching that great Geelong side under Thompson. The team had such confidence in itself that no matter the situation, their defenders would take the game on. Once they've spent more game time alongside each other, that's the next step in our defence's evolution.

This.

I was surprised to see that Rivers was actually 188cm tall. Thought he was similar height to Salem.

But he's got a lot of speed and power that he's already capable of AFL level.

He also has enough experience heads down back to help guide him and educate throughout the game.

I hope this is considered against Port.

[Buzzy 919]

On 7/27/2020 at 11:51 AM, binman said:

Seriously Buzzy? 

He is literally just reactive and slow as a person?

He plays one of the hardest positions in the side, one that requires an elite ability to read the play and know where to be. As evidence of this ability his captain has said he is the best reader of the game in the team and has been effusive in his praise for omac and the key role he plays in the defense unit.

The proof is in the pudding, we have looked much, much better since he has come in to the team. Only someone who doesn't get it would suggest that is happenstance.

And leaving his role and importance in the structure aside has he done his job as key defender. His direct opponents have barely taken a mark or kicked a goal on him this year.

Don't believe me? Go back and look a the stats of his opponents. And then compare those to stats to his much more highly paid and rated teammates Lever and may 

How many goals did Mcstay kick yesterday? That's right zero. And he only took 3 marks for the game, with only one being contested (that last one).

Compare that to Hipwood who was May's opponent. May did a good job, no one has suggested he didn't. But his opponent kicked a goal and took two contested marks, one being a critical one in the last quarter where string bean hipwood beat him dead to rights one on one.

And May cost us the first goal of the game with yet another shocking turnover, this one under no pressure from a kick out. 

Given you assessment of Omac his hundredth game of AFL football next year will come as surprise to you.

Sanctimonious? Perhaps. Be that as it may, you simply don't get it. 

I literally just said that modern footy is now much more than just your own opponent.  That you need to have an attacking side.

Then you go ahead and quote his direct opponent's stats?

It's you that's not getting it mate.

 

[Elegt 872]

Got schooled by a first year player today. Put no body on his opponent. Disgusting effort 

[McQueen 17,862]

At what rate is this thread depreciating?

[3Dee 1,153]

To be fair I think OMAC is providing a lot more than TMAC.

Scary thought.

[rufus 916]

This thread could not be more symbolic of everything that is wrong with this club.

Club as a whole just doesn't seem to value consistency...and players don't deliver consistency.

[spirit of norm smith 12,843]

Omcd was poor tonight. Slow.  Georgiades was simply too good and pushed Oscar aside. Oscars best is just at AFL standard. He’s average is poor.  I don’t see him being a reliable defender. Need to get Petty fit and developed to take a key defender role. 

[olisik 4,060]

Footage of first inside 50 is damning as he watches Georgiades get a clean run at the ball. Chaplin coaching for ya

[JTR 2,627]

2 minutes ago, olisik said:

Footage of first inside 50 is damning as he watches Georgiades get a clean run at the ball. Chaplin coaching for ya

Putting that incident aside, I think ANY defensive unit would have struggled tonight, given the speed and ease at which the ball was coming in. A wet paper bag would probably have been more effective at slowing them down.

[olisik 4,060]

Just now, JTR said:

Putting that incident aside, I think ANY defensive unit would have struggled tonight, given the speed and ease at which the ball was coming in. A wet paper bag would probably have been more effective at slowing them down.

What about the incident when he ushered for Fritta to take the ball instead of him while defending in the goal square 

[Elegt 872]

57 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Omcd was poor tonight. Slow.  Georgiades was simply too good and pushed Oscar aside. Oscars best is just at AFL standard. He’s average is poor.  I don’t see him being a reliable defender. Need to get Petty fit and developed to take a key defender role. 

Petty is average too unfortunately... our kids don't seem to be much chop

[Pates 9,536]

3 minutes ago, olisik said:

What about the incident when he ushered for Fritta to take the ball instead of him while defending in the goal square 

I'd say the man in you avatar had at least as bad if not worse not than OMac, the defence was under siege from the opening bounce had very little back up from the midfield.

Our defence has looked better since Oscar's return, tonight was an across the board horrible effort from the whole team.