Jack Viney Restricted Free Agent

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,122]

17 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Fritz is currently OOC, it was reported a while ago that he was expected to sign a two year contract. 

Yep I recall that article 8 or so weeks ago.

Wonder what’s the progression with the contract status?

[Go the Biff 3,127]

20 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Yep I recall that article 8 or so weeks ago.

Wonder what’s the progression with the contract status?

Not sure but I would think hat like many there would be a delay due to :

Uncertainty over cap size

Uncertainty over list size

Most of them have buggered off on holiday all over Queensland as there's no real incentive to return to Melbourne in lockdown

[Moonshadow 16,157]

3 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Interesting benchmark you are setting What does that make Petracca and Oliver worth?

in the open market Tracc close to $1mill and Clarry about $850-900k. Maybe about 10% less at the Dees, as its easier to stay if happy than leave. Obviously I have no idea what their contracts actually are, I'm speculating like everyone here. But I highly, highly doubt Viney would sign for $300k, which is what I originally disputed

[Binmans PA 25,976]

34 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

in the open market Tracc close to $1mill and Clarry about $850-900k. Maybe about 10% less at the Dees, as its easier to stay if happy than leave. Obviously I have no idea what their contracts actually are, I'm speculating like everyone here. But I highly, highly doubt Viney would sign for $300k, which is what I originally disputed

I'm not sure we'd be paying anyone that sort of money, but who knows.

[Deeko2 698]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:52 AM, Half forward flank said:

I would not have a bar of paying him double the average wage. Good AFL playe Jack has been overated for his all round football ability from before he even arrived at the Dees.  Would he get a game with Port?

 

On 10/2/2020 at 6:52 PM, Kent said:

Why are we better without those two

My view is you clear  Viney who adds very little  other than contributing to our midfield congestion

If his name wasn't Viney he may not be on our list Has learned nothing over his time at the dees move on!

my view is you keep Harmes and play him in the middle

 

             

People will be underwhelmed if they’re solely looking at Jacks stats as he doesn’t have the free rein that Olly and Trac get.

He played a lot of defensive roles this year and played them very well which again is confirmed by his placing in the B and F.

His third placing also debunks a lot of myths that he’s not coachable. I don’t get where people get this from other than making some crap up.

Ill admit, there were a few times this year the remote nearly went through the TV when he was pinned HTB but I have faith that this was due to him trying to lace someone instead of 2019 footy in bombing it in to no one.

He’s not on the same level as Olly and Trac but he’s a bloody good foot soldier who Id much rather have in the red and blue. 

I don’t mind players testing the market to estimate there worth. It would be ridiculous if you didn’t as we all know how quickly a career can end. He’s got a young family to take care of.

Pay him what’s fair as there’s a reason why other teams are after him.

 

[DemonOX 8,529]

I have said it all season put Harmes in the tagging midfield roll and rotate the other midfielders between the f50 and midfield. 
 

It ain’t rocket science and getting rid of any of any of our  midfielders would be a massive mistake IMO. 
 

I can’t understand why it’s so hard to do but Goodwin for some reason is not doing it. He would rather play them out of position and then wonder why thy are out of form. FMD has s ain’t that hard. 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,155]

9 hours ago, DemonOX said:

I have said it all season put Harmes in the tagging midfield roll and rotate the other midfielders between the f50 and midfield. 
 

It ain’t rocket science and getting rid of any of any of our  midfielders would be a massive mistake IMO. 
 

I can’t understand why it’s so hard to do but Goodwin for some reason is not doing it. He would rather play them out of position and then wonder why thy are out of form. FMD has s ain’t that hard. 

I think 16 minute quarters and trying to maintain continuity had a lot to do with it. I had no issue with not playing Harmes as a tagger until we decided to start using Melksham as one late in the year. 

[Cheap Seats 3,300]

12 hours ago, DemonOX said:

I have said it all season put Harmes in the tagging midfield roll and rotate the other midfielders between the f50 and midfield. 
 

It ain’t rocket science and getting rid of any of any of our  midfielders would be a massive mistake IMO. 
 

I can’t understand why it’s so hard to do but Goodwin for some reason is not doing it. He would rather play them out of position and then wonder why thy are out of form. FMD has s ain’t that hard. 

Goodwin - the only coach that doesn't tag and plays players out of position.

Quality as always.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Unleash Hell

[xman97 108]

17 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Goodwin - the only coach that doesn't tag and plays players out of position.

Quality as always.

 

 

1- Hardly anyone tags anymore, except for GWS. And look how they went this year.

2- Why not back your midfield in when you have one of the best midfields in the game? I can understand if you have one of the worst midfields. Do you not think GWS would do better by having one of their many guns rotate through instead of consuming 1 spot in almost every centre bounce with Deboer!

3- Harmes would be our 5th or 6th best inside mid, so with 3 spots in the centre at a time, why would you take one of our guns out. 

4- Out of our top 6 inside mids, Harmes is the most flexible to play other positions other than Petracca and Vandenberg. Petracca (inside mid/fwd), Oliver (inside mid only), Viney (inside mid only - don’t tell me he should be played in the pocket. Wallis has done it, but he couldn’t get a game in their midfield and isn’t half the midfielder Viney is), Brayshaw (inside mid only), Vandenberg (Inside/outside/fwd)  & Harmes(inside/half fwd/half/back).

Tagging is outdated, and it’s boring to watch stars of the game getting tagged out of it. 

[Cheap Seats 3,300]

11 minutes ago, xman97 said:

1- Hardly anyone tags anymore, except for GWS. And look how they went this year.

2- Why not back your midfield in when you have one of the best midfields in the game? I can understand if you have one of the worst midfields. Do you not think GWS would do better by having one of their many guns rotate through instead of consuming 1 spot in almost every centre bounce with Deboer!

3- Harmes would be our 5th or 6th best inside mid, so with 3 spots in the centre at a time, why would you take one of our guns out. 

4- Out of our top 6 inside mids, Harmes is the most flexible to play other positions other than Petracca and Vandenberg. Petracca (inside mid/fwd), Oliver (inside mid only), Viney (inside mid only - don’t tell me he should be played in the pocket. Wallis has done it, but he couldn’t get a game in their midfield and isn’t half the midfielder Viney is), Brayshaw (inside mid only), Vandenberg (Inside/outside/fwd)  & Harmes(inside/half fwd/half/back).

Tagging is outdated, and it’s boring to watch stars of the game getting tagged out of it. 

I think you need to direct this to @DemonOX.

But overall agree.

Although i reckon i saw Oliver develop and play outside in games this year.

[xman97 108]

4 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

I think you need to direct this to @DemonOX.

But overall agree.

Although i reckon i saw Oliver develop and play outside in games this year.

I could of directed to a couple more also. I just wanted to correct you on Goodwin being the only coach who doesn’t tag. GWS even eased off the Deboer tag in the last few rounds. It’s out of date.

[John Demonic 4,794]

9 minutes ago, xman97 said:

I could of directed to a couple more also. I just wanted to correct you on Goodwin being the only coach who doesn’t tag. GWS even eased off the Deboer tag in the last few rounds. It’s out of date.

Greenwood tagged Kelly out of the game last night. It's a useful hand to have up your sleeve come finals time. Not out of date at all.

[dazzledavey36 48,704]

Jay Clark said on triple M that Viney hasn't given a confirmation to Melbourne whether he's staying or going, but the club are really confident he'll stay.

Edited October 4, 2020 by dazzledavey36

[xman97 108]

10 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Greenwood tagged Kelly out of the game last night. It's a useful hand to have up your sleeve come finals time. Not out of date at all.

Did you watch any other Collingwood games this year mate? Tell me how many other times did they tag? 

And tell me, are we talking about Harmes just tagging for finals are we? You’re not comparing apples to apples. 

WC 15 - Coll 8 in centre clearences last night proves that maybe backing in your own elite mids (which collingwood have) is the way to go. 

[Clintosaurus 6,421]

Teams are more likely to tag a half back flanker or back pocket than a midfielder.

[Radar Detector 1,339]

1 hour ago, xman97 said:

1- Hardly anyone tags anymore, except for GWS. And look how they went this year.

2- Why not back your midfield in when you have one of the best midfields in the game? I can understand if you have one of the worst midfields. Do you not think GWS would do better by having one of their many guns rotate through instead of consuming 1 spot in almost every centre bounce with Deboer!

3- Harmes would be our 5th or 6th best inside mid, so with 3 spots in the centre at a time, why would you take one of our guns out. 

4- Out of our top 6 inside mids, Harmes is the most flexible to play other positions other than Petracca and Vandenberg. Petracca (inside mid/fwd), Oliver (inside mid only), Viney (inside mid only - don’t tell me he should be played in the pocket. Wallis has done it, but he couldn’t get a game in their midfield and isn’t half the midfielder Viney is), Brayshaw (inside mid only), Vandenberg (Inside/outside/fwd)  & Harmes(inside/half fwd/half/back).

Tagging is outdated, and it’s boring to watch stars of the game getting tagged out of it. 

Collingwood used a hard tag on Tim Kelly last night - worked pretty well I reckon. There are certain circumstances when a hard tag makes sense, especially  when you have someone like Neale or Bont who can completely destroy you. Harmes is a jet at this role and the perfect size, waste not to use him that way.

[Moonshadow 16,157]

35 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Jay Clark said on triple M that Viney hasn't given a confirmation to Melbourne whether he's staying or going, but the club are really confident he'll stay.

So he hasn't signed yet for 4 or 5 years....

Interesting

Fingers crossed ?

[xman97 108]

27 minutes ago, Radar Detector said:

Collingwood used a hard tag on Tim Kelly last night - worked pretty well I reckon. There are certain circumstances when a hard tag makes sense, especially  when you have someone like Neale or Bont who can completely destroy you. Harmes is a jet at this role and the perfect size, waste not to use him that way.

Hard tag?? Hahahaha! I can definitely tell who knows their footy on this forum with just 1 post. He gave him a hard tag for 1 quarter and this is how you defend that tagging isn't is going out of fashion! So many dumb posts on here!

Opinion is opinion. If you don't like tagging, then fair enough. But don't give me examples that are false and misleading to others that are reading.

[dazzledavey36 48,704]

47 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

So he hasn't signed yet for 4 or 5 years....

Interesting

Fingers crossed ?

By the looks of it, nope hasn't signed anything. 

[DemonOX 8,529]

2 hours ago, xman97 said:

1- Hardly anyone tags anymore, except for GWS. And look how they went this year.

2- Why not back your midfield in when you have one of the best midfields in the game? I can understand if you have one of the worst midfields. Do you not think GWS would do better by having one of their many guns rotate through instead of consuming 1 spot in almost every centre bounce with Deboer!

3- Harmes would be our 5th or 6th best inside mid, so with 3 spots in the centre at a time, why would you take one of our guns out. 

4- Out of our top 6 inside mids, Harmes is the most flexible to play other positions other than Petracca and Vandenberg. Petracca (inside mid/fwd), Oliver (inside mid only), Viney (inside mid only - don’t tell me he should be played in the pocket. Wallis has done it, but he couldn’t get a game in their midfield and isn’t half the midfielder Viney is), Brayshaw (inside mid only), Vandenberg (Inside/outside/fwd)  & Harmes(inside/half fwd/half/back).

Tagging is outdated, and it’s boring to watch stars of the game getting tagged out of it. 

1. Why does it matter what other teams are doing? Why should we follow other teams?
 

2. I back our midfield to but when we have Harmes who can tag the best oppo midfielder and reduce their influence then why not do it.

3. Why not when we can reduce the influence of the oppos gun midfielder with a tag. 
 

4. Our mids all know how to kick goals and rotating them  makes sense and gives us flexibility if a midfield combination isn’t working. 
 

Couldn’t care less if tagging is out dated or boring.

If it works for us then we should do it. 

(It would be have been handy in the dogs game this season to tag Bont all game). 
 

The above is just my opinion which differs to urs and that’s the beauty of this forum, everyone has a different opinion. It would be good to see things changed up when it’s not working. 

[xman97 108]

12 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

1. Why does it matter what other teams are doing? Why should we follow other teams?
 

2. I back our midfield to but when we have Harmes who can tag the best oppo midfielder and reduce their influence then why not do it.

3. Why not when we can reduce the influence of the oppos gun midfielder with a tag. 
 

4. Our mids all know how to kick goals and rotating them  makes sense and gives us flexibility if a midfield combination isn’t working. 
 

Couldn’t care less if tagging is out dated or boring.

If it works for us then we should do it. 

(It would be have been handy in the dogs game this season to tag Bont all game). 
 

The above is just my opinion which differs to urs and that’s the beauty of this forum, everyone has a different opinion. It would be good to see things changed up when it’s not working. 

Your post was bagging Goodwin for not doing it, and saying its not rocket science! You can have your opinion, but don't bag another human because he's not doing what you want him to do. Most clubs aren't doing it much for a reason.

Tagging someone usually means that tagger is at every centre bounce with the opposition player. In doing this, takes out 1 of only 3 positions at every centre bounce. When we have 4 inside mid guns of the comp (Petracca, Oliver, Viney & Brayshaw), and struggle to find room for all 4, I don't understand why you would want to make it 5! Add in Vandenberg who I think is a better inside mid than Harmes, and you have 6. 

[BAMF 3,787]

I wouldnt even define Harmes role in 2017 as a 'hard tag'.

He was certainly playing as a defensive mid, but he would get enough of his own ball to hurt the opposition.

It was a great role for him and often left the opposition 'star mid' looking foolish for not paying him enough respect.

[DemonOX 8,529]

16 minutes ago, xman97 said:

Your post was bagging Goodwin for not doing it, and saying its not rocket science! You can have your opinion, but don't bag another human because he's not doing what you want him to do. 

Why would Goodwin not try it given our performances over the season. U have nothing to lose if you try it given the way we were playing. Try different strategies when what you are doing is not working and that ain’t rocket science. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by DemonOX

[DeeSpencer 23,103]

2 hours ago, xman97 said:

Did you watch any other Collingwood games this year mate? Tell me how many other times did they tag? 

And tell me, are we talking about Harmes just tagging for finals are we? You’re not comparing apples to apples. 

WC 15 - Coll 8 in centre clearences last night proves that maybe backing in your own elite mids (which collingwood have) is the way to go. 

I don't believe in taggers as a full time designated role but I do believe in tagging as a vital tactic. That centre clearance stat is almost entirely due to Nic Nat being Nic Nat. Collingwood use Pendlebury on Cripps every time they play. 

At the moment Greenwood is fit and in decent form, whilst Sidebottom is out and the Pies depth mids (the Browns, Phillips etc) aren't in form. 

Seb Ross also tagged Bontempelli. Whilst Geary played a defensive forward role on Daniel. The 2 best kicks in the Dogs team were shut down.

2 elimination finals in one day won by the tagging team.

Whether it's Harmes, Gus, Sparrow or Viney we need to have a lockdown tag option. And we need to find roles for them when they aren't tagging.

But I'd have no problem if you said Harmes will tag the 8-10 best players in the comp: Danger, Martin, Fyfe, Bont, Cripps, Pendles, Kelly/Shuey, Boak etc. Teams that play finals have elite midfielders that are best to stop.

 

[xman97 108]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't believe in taggers as a full time designated role but I do believe in tagging as a vital tactic. That centre clearance stat is almost entirely due to Nic Nat being Nic Nat. Collingwood use Pendlebury on Cripps every time they play. 

At the moment Greenwood is fit and in decent form, whilst Sidebottom is out and the Pies depth mids (the Browns, Phillips etc) aren't in form. 

Seb Ross also tagged Bontempelli. Whilst Geary played a defensive forward role on Daniel. The 2 best kicks in the Dogs team were shut down.

2 elimination finals in one day won by the tagging team.

Whether it's Harmes, Gus, Sparrow or Viney we need to have a lockdown tag option. And we need to find roles for them when they aren't tagging.

But I'd have no problem if you said Harmes will tag the 8-10 best players in the comp: Danger, Martin, Fyfe, Bont, Cripps, Pendles, Kelly/Shuey, Boak etc. Teams that play finals have elite midfielders that are best to stop.

 

Agree with having a mid being more accountable on a particular player, and not a hard tag. But neither the Bont tag or the T.Kelly tag was a hard one or even for a big portion of the game! Geary is a different story, as it was a forward tag. We're talking about Harmes going into the midfield and taking one of our guns out.

I would have Viney or Brayshaw be that player instead of Harmes. Both of those guys do pay close attention already is some games. Harmes is a whole lot better than those 2 in playing half forward or half back, so on team balance, I don't like the Harmes idea. Also, I wouldn't be taking Oliver or Petracca out so Harmes can tag all day like some of the comments by others suggests.