Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Jack Viney Restricted Free Agent


JMDemon

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca.

image.thumb.png.714ab7d1fc591e1e1036a8a9965438e2.png

This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below:

image.thumb.png.15ccd6576b280cb54e7dd65775a3db65.png

Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below.

image.thumb.png.6bdca4893da91a967c0829baa74676f5.png

I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages.

Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side).

image.png.c8bbee442d6f497d15df038cedcf635c.png

Essentially:

image.png.7abe7abc971eb6c7cba88c5a92002889.png

Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy.

image.png.cd9e79149ae460db9896752dd55efdf0.png

But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive.

image.png.e277bc3bc27d1d1ec221ab83bdab2372.png

Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance.

image.png.e0e56de54a34109354a19dfa4c9083cd.png

Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird.

image.png.27733b95cba7318d3e9140e8822cd61c.png

Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. 

image.png.30ec5c9d8cfaf9571201150b1f194a61.png

Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. 

image.png.53f21eacb7ac7f01ab5603de0c7e41de.png

Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. 

image.png.bec7ba0524ad490857738ce8ce86ea5c.png

The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently.

image.png.237eacc4af5f6003e461170e364c0fa3.png

 

This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. 

image.png.c13026eebe0fbcf98bf8e05ac1b3edda.png

Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck.

image.png.3b8232b9f9e99cf5a73763776eba1a8b.png

It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive.

The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

image.png

image.png

Post of the year, Bob. What an absolute ripper. 

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca.

image.thumb.png.714ab7d1fc591e1e1036a8a9965438e2.png

This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below:

image.thumb.png.15ccd6576b280cb54e7dd65775a3db65.png

Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below.

image.thumb.png.6bdca4893da91a967c0829baa74676f5.png

I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages.

Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side).

image.png.c8bbee442d6f497d15df038cedcf635c.png

Essentially:

image.png.7abe7abc971eb6c7cba88c5a92002889.png

Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy.

image.png.cd9e79149ae460db9896752dd55efdf0.png

But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive.

image.png.e277bc3bc27d1d1ec221ab83bdab2372.png

Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance.

image.png.e0e56de54a34109354a19dfa4c9083cd.png

Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird.

image.png.27733b95cba7318d3e9140e8822cd61c.png

Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. 

image.png.30ec5c9d8cfaf9571201150b1f194a61.png

Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. 

image.png.53f21eacb7ac7f01ab5603de0c7e41de.png

Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. 

image.png.bec7ba0524ad490857738ce8ce86ea5c.png

The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently.

image.png.237eacc4af5f6003e461170e364c0fa3.png

 

This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. 

image.png.c13026eebe0fbcf98bf8e05ac1b3edda.png

Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck.

image.png.3b8232b9f9e99cf5a73763776eba1a8b.png

It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive.

The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

image.png

image.png

This is such a good post! Cheers!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Post of the year, Bob. What an absolute ripper. 

IF it suits your narrative that we must keep Jack.   He probably does more stupid things within games than good from what i see.  Could show hundreds if not thousands of dumb things he still does at 26 YO.  You could scroll through any game to find examples of this.  He plays like his old man but few inches smaller.  Todd also was a butcher with ball in hand.  Viney name means a lot to Melbourne supporters but i doubt he will ever drag us to being a good team when he is one of our onballers.  We will continue to play like under 12's while he is in the middle. Tough, uncompromising but very dumb footballer with ball in hand.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

OK. Viney does multiple roles, and it varied depending on who is in the centre with him. Here is one against St Kilda, without Oliver. It's Viney, Brayshaw and Petracca.

image.thumb.png.714ab7d1fc591e1e1036a8a9965438e2.png

This is set up for Petracca to have the who far side open to him. Viney blocks out Steele, Brayshaw gets inside Jones to block and Petracca beats Ross and gets to the far side with space. This is shown below:

image.thumb.png.15ccd6576b280cb54e7dd65775a3db65.png

Unfortunately the play breaks down because Brayshaw can't get inside Jones to block him out, so Jones gets the ball before it gets to Petracca. Viney, on the other hand, gets Steele out of position and is therefor a non-factor in the stoppage. This is shown below.

image.thumb.png.6bdca4893da91a967c0829baa74676f5.png

I show this as an example of how important these roles are in stoppages.

Here is another, with the play designed for Oliver. Oliver is to beat Shiel to the tap to the far side, with Viney blocking out Merrett to create space and Melksham playing purely defensively on Stringer (near side).

image.png.c8bbee442d6f497d15df038cedcf635c.png

Essentially:

image.png.7abe7abc971eb6c7cba88c5a92002889.png

Merrett give Viney the slip early, which puts the play in jeopardy.

image.png.cd9e79149ae460db9896752dd55efdf0.png

But Viney is able to recover to win body position to push Merrett into the contest, which keeps the play alive.

image.png.e277bc3bc27d1d1ec221ab83bdab2372.png

Oliver gets a little hold from Shiel, but because Viney has done his job so well on Merrett he's now clear and able to recover the ball to win the clearance.

image.png.e0e56de54a34109354a19dfa4c9083cd.png

Around the ground, Viney does the same on good players. Here the tap is for Oliver, with Crouch defending him. Brayshaw blocks the inside exit and AVB the defensive exit (we're kicking left). Viney is trusted one on one with their best player, Rory Laird.

image.png.27733b95cba7318d3e9140e8822cd61c.png

Viney beats Laird for position and, when there's no effective tap from either Gawn or O'Reilly, Viney is able to win the clearance off the back of his good defensive body work. 

image.png.30ec5c9d8cfaf9571201150b1f194a61.png

Now he's one with Petracca on Laird and Brayshaw on Crouch. It's a weird one because the play breaks down with a dodgy bounce. The tap ends up going forwards to no-man's land. But the important thing is the defence at the stoppage. 

image.png.53f21eacb7ac7f01ab5603de0c7e41de.png

Crouch edges Brayshaw off the ball and Petracca is lost with the clever Laird, but Viney recovers really quickly from the odd tap and gets himself between the ball and Keays, who isn't able to have any influence on the play. 

image.png.bec7ba0524ad490857738ce8ce86ea5c.png

The first possession is won by Crouch and the clearance by Laird. It's a comfortable clearance in the end and Laird wanders through untouched. Keays is shut out quickly by Viney. Brayshaw and Petracca are non-entities once beaten, but Viney is able to do his role so consistently.

image.png.237eacc4af5f6003e461170e364c0fa3.png

 

This happens over and over again. Viney is able to kill opposition clearances and also win his own off the back of this. He doesn't have the play designed for him as often as the attacking mids, but he can do it well if there is another defensive midfielder in the stoppage. For example, this stoppage involves Vandenberg. Viney is on Shiel (left) whilst AVB is blocking Merrett and Oliver is being defended. 

image.png.c13026eebe0fbcf98bf8e05ac1b3edda.png

Shiel is the opposition's best midfielder, but Viney is so good at winning the body battle in stoppages that the play can confidently predict he wins body position for the surprise attack. Oliver's man only has eyes for him, so Oliver just has to stay out of the way of Viney, whilst AVB just blocks Merrett away. The tap goes to the far side, which is easy to do when the opposition has Stewart in the ruck.

image.png.3b8232b9f9e99cf5a73763776eba1a8b.png

It's an easy clearance in the end because of a terrible setup by Essendon. But the whole play depends on Viney winning body position, which he does. Usually he does it defensively for other players, but he can do it himself so reliably that sometimes they design plays for it. He has the quality to play both attacking and defensive.

The defensive midfielder is under-appreciated. Brayshaw has been given this responsibility at times, but he just doesn't do it to the level of Viney. You can see that, since Brayshaw went down late in the year, Melksham has been sent into the middle to play defensively. Oliver can do it at times, but he's a target man more often than not whilst Viney creates the space he can use. When Petracca is in there the ball is almost always going to him. Oliver is a rounded midfield but he doesn't play as a defensively minded stoppage midfielder like Viney. Viney is so important because he's so much better than the next best player in his role (Brayshaw, AVB and Melksham), and one of the best at it in the league. Plus, on top of that, he can be used offensively when required. There's a reason why a range of coaches love him every single year, but his style means that it doesn't always get its way on to the stats sheet.

image.png

image.png

That is great stuff, well done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Appreciate the analysis Axis of Bob. Very clear explanation of the roles of each of our mids. Makes me value Viney even more.

If he does indeed choose to leave, I wonder if that might be tainted by the stresses of hub life in Qld with a newborn first child. He mentioned this in his B&F speech. Could well be a non issue, and obviously I'm just speculating, but it wouldn't be ideal separated from wider family at that time. Hopefully he takes the time in familiar surrounds back in Melbourne to think carefully and stay with us

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

IF it suits your narrative that we must keep Jack.   He probably does more stupid things within games than good from what i see.  Could show hundreds if not thousands of dumb things he still does at 26 YO.  You could scroll through any game to find examples of this.  He plays like his old man but few inches smaller.  Todd also was a butcher with ball in hand.  Viney name means a lot to Melbourne supporters but i doubt he will ever drag us to being a good team when he is one of our onballers.  We will continue to play like under 12's while he is in the middle. Tough, uncompromising but very dumb footballer with ball in hand.

Over to you to pull that info together 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I will say that Viney's abilities inmaking the stoppages function is only something that I've recently developed an appreciation for. I had a vague idea of what Viney was doing and also though that his play may have been cannibalising the play of the other midfielders, but his high B&F placing made me do a double take and question why the coaches rated him so much more highly than me/us (comfortably ahead of Oliver). It was only then that I went back to have a good look at the stoppages to see what exactly the players were doing (which is what the coaches would do) and how well each of them performed their role in each stoppage. It became pretty obvious that Viney was the best at his role and had a greater variety of roles depending who was in the stoppage with him, plus he was able to recover the fastest once the play broke down to defend.  

Edited by Axis of Bob
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Top shelf analysis from Axis of Bob makes it crystal clear why other teams; the entire AFL, value Jack Viney more than the so-called 'supporters' who are constant critics on Demonland.

Absolutely. The 'supporters' clearly have to find fault in anything to make them forget about their own inadequacies. Sad really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/24/2020 at 6:34 PM, Dr.D said:

I like Jack Viney but I'm so sick of yelling 'GET RID OF IT!!!' every single time he has the ball. He has no concept of space, taking the easy option or just how detrimental a holding the ball decision can be. He really needs to work hard on this, all bloody summer, and just give the easy option instead of barging through. it achieves nothing. id be happy to off load him if he continues to do it next season. patience is wearing very thin.

I hear what your saying, but on the other hand we can't have a team of players that want to instantly get rid of the footy like a hot potato every time they touch it. Jack's bullocking certainly has its place. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it interesting that so many want to move on a a player who is clearly important to teh team and has many great assets as well as some weaknesses why we ant to get rid of good players i dont know.. there should be a page on Melksham.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Deetective Sgt. Taggert said:

Over to you to pull that info together 

I watch every Demon game twice.  i could pull many examples from each game but it is not my technical expertise to pull out screen shots to illustrate this.  Seems many here think we will always be better with Jack in the team leading the charge.  My eyes tell me otherwise all too frequently.  He is not a spud by any means but has and will continue to be a very limited onballer.  If he was Cripps size he would be scary with his attributes but i don't think he is due for growth spurt.  At 26 i don't believe he will get better.  His younger years i could accept his limitations, he is just not developing into anything but an average midfielder.  

*The fact that he has come so high on our B+F so often is really a reflection of MFC, we been bad for most of his years.  It is not that Jack is THIS good and we should keep him at any costs.  No anti Jack whatsoever.   Just realised we are very limited while he commands major midfield time, and i would not pay him as small pressure forward, he just does not show enough smarts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

IF it suits your narrative that we must keep Jack.   He probably does more stupid things within games than good from what i see.  Could show hundreds if not thousands of dumb things he still does at 26 YO.  You could scroll through any game to find examples of this.  He plays like his old man but few inches smaller.  Todd also was a butcher with ball in hand.  Viney name means a lot to Melbourne supporters but i doubt he will ever drag us to being a good team when he is one of our onballers.  We will continue to play like under 12's while he is in the middle. Tough, uncompromising but very dumb footballer with ball in hand.

Fits the narrative? 

Rubbish. His post, regardless of your thoughts on Viney, is well thought out and researched. It's one of the reasons this site can be terrific as there are those out there who will give some really in depth though, backed up by facts, to their posts. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

Absolutely. The 'supporters' clearly have to find fault in anything to make them forget about their own inadequacies. Sad really.

But but I am perfect so that cannot be me. Phew!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

So you found one from last season?

So your biggest issue with this whole thing is that the specific footage that I used for a joke on an internet forum during the offseason was from 2019 instead of 2020?

OK, you got me. I concede.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


3 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

So your biggest issue with this whole thing is that the specific footage that I used for a joke on an internet forum during the offseason was from 2019 instead of 2020?

OK, you got me. I concede.

You don’t have to concede everything, but your initial point was well made. I think the issue with JV is not at centre bounces, where he excels most of the time, but rather his decision making at stoppages around the ground and in general play. His willingness to step inside to initiate contact and break tackles is the hindrance in his game. Would you disagree with that ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post @Axis of Bob

I think we all can be guilty of concentrating too much on a player's limitations and not their strengths.

Out of interest, in doing this research did you ascertain why (or form any conclusion) we were often so poor at clearances despite having the dominant tap ruckman ?  It didn't always matter, as we often won games, but lost the clearances, including centre clearances.  And it was despite having the number clearance player for the year - Oliver.

Either Max wasn't using it correctly, or one or two of those stoppage mids were getting beaten.

Anyway, don't want to create more work for you, it's just whether you'd formed a view.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Fits the narrative? 

Rubbish. His post, regardless of your thoughts on Viney, is well thought out and researched. It's one of the reasons this site can be terrific as there are those out there who will give some really in depth though, backed up by facts, to their posts. 

Yeah it fits the narrative of people who think Jack is great.  I agree it is well thought out and researched though.  SO if it were pointing to all his flaws would it still be great for you? i Doubt it.

i am sure he had to search very hard to find the positive examples he did show.  Watch any game we play and there are so many more dubious moments Jack is involved in.  Giving 3 or 4 examples of Jack doing the right thing does not make me blind to all the dumb stuff he does during the course of every game he plays.  

BTW i highlighted your post but i could have chosen half a dozen others who just seems to think Jack can do no wrong, definitely not personal.  I think he is an interesting topic to discuss, for better, and/or worse.  There are many other players on our list that probably deserve more scrutiny.  FA has changed the way teams can attract or lose players.  I would not be dancing in the streets if he were to stay or go...i do find it enticing to think of Petracca/Oliver working with a more rounded onballer though.  We feel very predictable with JV in the guts, other teams onball brigade would feel the same i reckon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

You don’t have to concede everything, but your initial point was well made. I think the issue with JV is not at centre bounces, where he excels most of the time, but rather his decision making at stoppages around the ground and in general play. His willingness to step inside to initiate contact and break tackles is the hindrance in his game. Would you disagree with that ??

I think his style of play is often an important difference in our midfield. It's so hard to create scoring opportunities in the modern game that you need players that can beat a tackle to create space where there is none. He's not a great kick, quite one sided, and not a 'finesse' player but they would be nice add ons to his game rather than important to his role. I suppose I'd like Max Gawn to be a better crumber too, but it's not that important to his role.

He's not a perfect midfielder but he's an incredibly good one, not just for the times he has the ball but especially for the times he doesn't have the ball. He's a 'glue guy' in the stoppages, that makes all the others play better. If you're only looking at what happens when he gets the ball then you'll never see his value. He is often willing to take a risk to score, which is important because scoring is so difficult.

Here are some interesting stats for Viney this year (AFL wide rankings) that bear this out (footywire.com):

image.thumb.png.edb9a9a9807669fb3d4484fec0b9b057.png
I've marked the most interesting bits: Clearances. Turnovers. Inside 50s. Scores.

Excellent at winning contested footy and clearances. Ordinary ball user. The way he plays results in us scoring goals. 

He's a player who will annoy those who focus on shortcomings because he makes mistakes and humans, being loss averse, notice bad stuff more than they notice good stuff. But his mistakes are outweighed by his unique abilities, including winning one on one contests in stoppages, defense in stoppages (and contests) and his ability to beat an opposition defender and therefor punch a hole the opposition's team defence. 

Compare that to the other players that could play that role (AVB, Melksham, Sparrow ....) and he becomes even more important.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

I think his style of play is often an important difference in our midfield. It's so hard to create scoring opportunities in the modern game that you need players that can beat a tackle to create space where there is none. He's not a great kick, quite one sided, and not a 'finesse' player but they would be nice add ons to his game rather than important to his role. I suppose I'd like Max Gawn to be a better crumber too, but it's not that important to his role.

He's not a perfect midfielder but he's an incredibly good one, not just for the times he has the ball but especially for the times he doesn't have the ball. He's a 'glue guy' in the stoppages, that makes all the others play better. If you're only looking at what happens when he gets the ball then you'll never see his value. He is often willing to take a risk to score, which is important because scoring is so difficult.

Here are some interesting stats for Viney this year (AFL wide rankings) that bear this out (footywire.com):

image.thumb.png.edb9a9a9807669fb3d4484fec0b9b057.png
I've marked the most interesting bits: Clearances. Turnovers. Inside 50s. Scores.

Excellent at winning contested footy and clearances. Ordinary ball user. The way he plays results in us scoring goals. 

He's a player who will annoy those who focus on shortcomings because he makes mistakes and humans, being loss averse, notice bad stuff more than they notice good stuff. But his mistakes are outweighed by his unique abilities, including winning one on one contests in stoppages, defense in stoppages (and contests) and his ability to beat an opposition defender and therefor punch a hole the opposition's team defence. 

Compare that to the other players that could play that role (AVB, Melksham, Sparrow ....) and he becomes even more important.

No issue with all you’ve posted. However, the issue is, he has had years to work on his shortcomings and by all reports I’ve heard, does not take onboard feedback. That is an area he needs to improve. Accepting that he is not perfect and work on areas of his game. Perhaps he is not coachable 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

The longer this takes the more chance Jack Viney heads off to Geelong.  He is clearly not our best onballer and is quite limited for a 26 YO who should be at his peak.  I think Melbourne would be silly to offer him any more then 3 years.  Geelong will offer 4 and likely get him.  So many posters think he needs to be a small pressure forward...would you want to pay 600k+ for him to learn this role?  I just don't see his value and he will still have his limitations, see ball get ball type, stuffing up structures, he does not do the team things innately.  Basically play a kossie role but with no where near the amount of natural ability.  I love Jack, but think much like Jones before him he does not show true leadership.  He just wants to crash in harder, which is admirable but so often he is crashing into a player who was in over the ball already.  I really think without him being automatic selection in the midfield we would be much better off with a smart outside player.  There would be plenty available in the 500-700k mark that would make a real difference to our team instantly.  We can keep Jack and know exactly what we are going to get, toughness/hardness/not much footy smarts.  He is 26, has currency, and i think it would be far more beneficial to us to get a decent draft pick in return.  Would not be surprised at all if we told him to explore his options as we really can't afford to have both him and Harmes in the same team.

Harmes is contracted for years otherwise we would be trying to offload him too.  We get what we can for Jack and wish him the best.  With new faces brings hope.  I have no faith that JV will ever improve with us, it is not like he is suddenly going to discover footy IQ and make better decisions.

He's our 3rd midfielder behind Clarry and Trac and a very good one at that he doesn't need to be a forward pocket. He is just fine the way he is. The one that has to get more creative is Brayshaw.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's our 3rd midfielder behind Clarry and Trac and a very good one at that he doesn't need to be a forward pocket. He is just fine the way he is. The one that has to get more creative is Brayshaw.

Brayshaw can only get creative when he gets a chance to play midfield.  I think you would find Viney has had a lot more opportunity?  Either way our 3rd best mid is very limited and that is picking either of those 2 guys.  If you could put Viney heart/effort into Brayshaw you would have quite the footballer though!  Both are limited in the roles they play imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...