Angus Brayshaw

[dazzledavey36 48,643]

28 minutes ago, nacnud said:

Fair enough mate. I just reckon a midfield with Petracca and Oliver alone beats Carlton’s complete midfield any day, so why wouldn’t he want to stay at Melbourne since he bears some responsibility for the team’s performances? But I see your point,  Oliver could think that he’s the missing piece to Carlton’s midfield puzzle which could take them to finals. 

Maybe. As it stands our midfield aren't exactly clicking. So any midfield in the comp can get us. 

I'm pretty intrigued to see the blues tonight.

[Axis of Bob 10,168]

I thought Brayshaw was very good on his wing on Saturday. He had 6 intercept possessions and 5 score involvements, which indicates that he's played a strong role structurally. Langdon had 5 SI and 5 Int, so the impact was similar from a structural point of view. 

If Brayshaw can continue to hold his position on the field and do his job defensively then he'll keep helping us win. He's a much stronger ball winner than most wings and his overhead marking will allow him to keep drifting forward to impact the scoreboard too. 

Having two winning wings was one of the reasons why we won the structural battle and never really looked threatened.

[Deemania since 56 6,122]

3 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

As far as I'm concerned, Brayshaw, Viney and Oliver should be our starting mids with Trac and Kosi starting forward and rolling through the middle. 

Hooray! Petracca has had his experience lift, but worth/value and common good for him and fans is in the forward line, as we all know and cannot comment upon lest we see ourselves criticising Wingood yet again. Kosi and Tracc could be an awesome forwardline combo outside of the KPFs. As for Gus out on a wing, we have a dual understanding of poor placement and function. He is a natural midfielder and clearance achiever. Tomlinson is useful back, but he is the rightful wingman out wide, making enormous space, taking marks and two-way running for what are becoming highly effective disposals within the creation of a whole new corridor of clearance and attack that we have lacked for so long. 

[John Demonic 4,782]

1 hour ago, Brenno said:

This is spot on, If we fail to make finals and Oliver leaves us for one of the big clubs it would be the final nail in the melbourne supporting coffin for me, and I wouldn't be the only one. 

 

 

 

 

 

But but.. imagine all the young guns we can draft with 2 of Carlton's first round picks in the pick 10-15 range and a bunch of picks in the 30s ?

Edited March 25, 2021 by John Demonic

[hemingway 7,583]

The discussions about Oliver’s intentions are a bit irrelevant.

We don’t know what he’s thinking. 

However, we do know that footy is a workplace. We know that every player craves individual and team success. We know that the market is dynamic and ever changing. We know that stars like Oliver will be targeted by other clubs. We know that the clubs that are attractive to players are big, wealthy and successful or perceived to be building towards success. We know that successful people like change and want to be be associated with success. 

So to retain Oliver, it is imperative that we have a successful season leading to a red hot tilt at the flag in the next year or two. 

Oliver and his agent have every reason to delay negotiations and decisions until season end. I would. They will have time to see if anything changes at Melbourne. One would think finals is a must, but,  just as importantly, that we have finals success.

Waiting until season end will also improve their bargaining power in achieving a huge offer. 

Its not outside the realms of possibility that we have a successful season and Oliver still goes to the club that makes the best financial offer. He may already have decided to leave or at least be favouring a move.  This is a bloke with a few years in the system and dicky shoulders. He will not last forever and his bargaining power is now. 

So we need to keep building a winning team with or without Oliver. 

Sure you want to keep him but not at any cost. It’s always the team over the individual. That’s Richmond’s mantra. 

[Little Goffy 12,510]

I don't understand why it becomes so complicated. Surely our primary inside midfielders are;

Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw.

With a support cast of;

Salem, Harmes and then various others rotating through.

That doesn't seem like it should be an overcrowded inside mid group, even if the argument is made for Salem to be used as a proper full-time mid.

We have several small-medium half-forwards who can take some time in stoppages, but we have a very clear core 4, 5, or even six if Harmes gets settled back as a stopper/counter-attacker once he returns from injury.

There's also no reason I can see that those four core inside mids can't be one of the absolute dominant midfield groups in the AFL.

Some things you tinker with, some things you let settle. Hopefully, once all four are available, that settling is allowed to happen.

[Brenno 228]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I would have serious trouble having any interest in AFL if Clarry plays in a Carlscum jumper. It will mean we are never going to retain the right players to win a Flag

I put the Club on notice...

I agree,  it would destroy the already shaky spirit and hope of many of us.

No flags or  anything really resembling success is one thing. 

Seeing our exciting players running around for another the team is a bridge too far for me. 

 

[Sir Why You Little 34,414]

2 minutes ago, Brenno said:

I agree,  it would destroy the already shaky spirit and hope of many of us.

No flags or  anything really resembling success is one thing. 

Seeing our exciting players running around for another the team is a bridge too far for me. 

 

Yep. I am not joking 

We didn’t get Roos and PJ into the Club for nothing

I have no intention of being a Member of a Club that gets raided for Talent every 5 years. 
 

Time to win

[old55 21,216]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

Pollyana, formerly fifty-five right? 

I've always assumed you're one of the older breed of demon supporters on here. Rhino Richards your right hand man. Binman along side both. Baghdad bob bringing up the rear. Ready to jump on me anytime you think I've fallen into the trap of contradiction.. Or for the fact that I have been questioning this club's decisions time and time again, rightfully due to its mediocrity. 

I could write a book on where I think we've gone wrong since 2018 and what I'd have done to add and compliment our list immediately. 

The addition of Lever and May have been great. Langdon has exceeded my expectations but all should have been targeted earlier. We've been slow to make change, that's we're we've failed. 

Lever was never going to be able to perform to the level he did at Adelaide with Oscar and Frost as his support. I called that from the beginning. Lever played in a system with Talia and Hartigan. Two mature, big bodied defenders who allowed Lever to bring his elite level intercept game every week. Obviously the fact he did his ACL didn't help his ability to get continuity together with our back five back then. 

In 2018 we were playing Dom Tyson, Nathan Jones, Harmes and Vandenberg on the wings. Our downfall in games even back then was that we had so many similar types being naturally drawn to the contest, slow to react, questionable skills and decision making. What has changed significantly since? We've added Langdon. One player with a point of difference who has been a welcome addition. But again, why did it take so long to target a wingman. I'm not the only one who was up in arms about it back then. And why have we not addressed that area further? It's 2021 and we're still playing inside mids on wings. 

And no, Brayshaw wasn't good on the wing against Freo. He had just a game. 18 possies, 9 of which were handballs at only 60%. Four turnovers. I don't know what you were watching. He came third in a brownlow playing in a position he's played his whole life. 

Then there's the small forward issue. We have a ripper in Kosi. But why the hell did it take so long for us to target one when we've been needing one since 2018 also? 

The list management team work on the back of what type of players Goodwin wants to fit his game style and plan. They've made questionable decisions at best and the ones they have got right have come a seasons too late. 

Take a look at what St Kilda have done over the course of a couple of years to completely rejuvenate their list post Richardson. I understand it's not feasible to bring in the quality of Lever, May, Brown and Langdon over the course of a year. But we could have easily brought in stop-gap players who possessed attributes we needed. Attributes and strengths that would allow for others to play their natural game. 

The saints have done it with a lot of recycled goods whilst maintaining their high end talent. 

The dogs have similarly done that whilst retaining their elite players. 

And now we're seeing sides that should be further behind us in development leapfrogging us or gaining ground. Brisbane, freo, Carlton etc.

Goodwin is stubborn. And we had an exodus of coaches go because of it. 

He has one season to right the ship or Perty can kiss goodbye all the plans he has of making us a powerhouse. 

If he has learnt anything in his short time with us, it'll be that Melbourne supporters are sick to death of talk, rebuilds, "heading in the right direction", ad nauseam... 

Yes, I can see that it's a problem for you when the facts don't suit your narrative ...

Since Goodwin took over we brought in:

• 2016: Lewis, Hibberd
• 2017: Lever
• 2018: May
• 2019: Langdon, Tomlinson
• 2020: B.Brown

In the meantime we drafted Jackson and Pickett.

You were on about not picking up Tom Phillips - but at 4 x $600k maybe we prioritised Brown and re-signing Oliver and Petracca over him? Where I see a doughnut, you see the hole, that's the difference between us. 

Anyway there's one thing we agree on - we have to play and win finals this year.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,395]

As long as we win I don't care if Brayshaw has 15 touches or 50.

It's all about the team performing well, not individual stats or accolades.

This is why the Tigers have been so dominant, they are easily the best overall team in the competition, not necessarily the most talented.

[Demonstone 19,050]

3 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

And now, everyone is questioning Goodwin's worth. Including players.

You've made some unsubstantiated claims about Oliver.  Who are the other players?

[ManDee 7,073]

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Well you must have a terribly hard time deciphering what is true or false on a day to day, hour to hour basis and for that, I'm sorry for you. 

But it appears that you believe everything you hear. And I feel very sorry for you. Or don't you believe me? 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Oliver's not a free agent so I would be fascinated what Carlton could offer us in return, or any club for that matter.

Oliver's a once in a generation midfielder at our club and it would be an absolute disaster to lose him. And Trac will be out the door when he hits free agency at the end of next year if we miss finals once again.

That, and the salary cap, is why I think it might be linked to Cripps' decision.

[Billy 1,952]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Good luck.

Got howled down last year when I said that Oliver was 100% assessing his options and the Carlton talk was real. We're Melbourne going to trade him if he requested a trade? No.. its laughable how many refuse to take the red and blue glasses off

Oliver at the time was impatient and wants finals success and missing last year was nearly the final nail in the coffin. It a took a Goodwin and Yze chat to bring him back down a level.

Having known Oliver since working with him at the Bushies, you start to make great connections with his family and close friends and that's where you hear the noise.

I am not sure whether he is any close to re-signing or not, but if we get to the mid year bye and we aren't in the top 8 and he hasn't signed on then I'll be worried.

Not that l doubt what you’ve heard I find it hard to believe that Oliver thinks that Carlton are any closer to finals than us.

As for the midfield battle we have them covered & why would Carlton want another midfield bull along with Cripps unless he’s going back to WA

By the way l think Oliver is better than Cripps? and if we lose him l doubt l would be able to forgive the club

[Lampers 563]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Viney would’ve fetched us a mid 2nd round pick or if we were really luck an end of first round pick. So at best 25ish, and possibly 35 in a draft that was basically a guess after the top picks. I’m sure the club considered moving Viney but to take a loss on a vice captain when you’ve got a decent list would’ve been a huge call.

There’s been trade rumours with Gus over the last 2 years. What team was going to give a good pick for a guy without a position, with a history of concussions, a lisfranc injury  and on 700k for 2 more years? I’m sure we tried to package him off to Freo but look at their midfield, why would they bother?

Gus’ value was most likely the same as Tom Phillips. Ie. close to nothing. 

Unfortunately players who have career best seasons then struggle as the game shifts away from their style end up with little value. He’s already in the Tyson zone, he has been since the end of 2019. It’s better off trying to develop his game back up. 

Fair points.

I’d be hope either of Viney (compensation) or Brayshaw (trade) would’ve netted a pick ~15 for a team wanting to bolster the midfield immediately, maybe that’s too optimistic.

There’s also the benefit of exiting significant dollars off the list as I think there’s an over investment for what’s being returned from Brayshaw and Viney right now.

Those dollars either enables a play for an established needs player from a club looking to rebuild and would accept that ~15 pick in return.

Or front load some existing contracts and use that ~15 to draft a highly skilled player as an 18 yo is more likely to be able to contribute on the outside rather than needing preseasons to build up their size and strength to contribute on the inside.

Given we’ve got this list, I’d keep Brayshaw and Viney as permanent on ballers as I don’t see their versatility to be very effective elsewhere, and alternate Oliver and Petracca as mid/forwards as I’m confident Oliver, now he can mark overhead again, and Petracca (proven) could each be very dangerous in that role. On the wing? Not sure, maybe one of McDonald, ANB, Bedford or Rosman who all have good endurance, maybe one of them just running all day out there and keeping width knowing that their disposal is iffy. Or try Laurie or Bowey who I’m sure have poorer endurance but allegedly highly skilled.

[dazzledavey36 48,643]

2 hours ago, Billy said:

Not that l doubt what you’ve heard I find it hard to believe that Oliver thinks that Carlton are any closer to finals than us.

As for the midfield battle we have them covered & why would Carlton want another midfield bull along with Cripps unless he’s going back to WA

By the way l think Oliver is better than Cripps? and if we lose him l doubt l would be able to forgive the club

I too think Oliver is better then Cripps.

Cripps is seriously overrated. 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

10 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I too think Oliver is better then Cripps.

Cripps is seriously overrated. 

He has a shocker last night!  Oliver works a lot harder.  Cripps just wants to bash down walls.  I do wish Viney was his size though, they try and play a similar style of game, by crashing and trying to do it all themselves at times.

[Roger Mellie 3,483]

50 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

He has a shocker last night!  Oliver works a lot harder.  Cripps just wants to bash down walls.  I do wish Viney was his size though, they try and play a similar style of game, by crashing and trying to do it all themselves at times.

Cripps is a gun, but he looks slow and injured.

[PaulRB 5,897]

On Gus and his role in the team, he’s a smart guy who was receiving regular concussions playing as an inside mid, perhaps it was him who initiated his change in role/position in the team..? 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,570]

18 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Where I see a doughnut, you see the hole

Mmmmmm doughnuts. 

Hot jam doughnuts at the G after a win for the MFC are my favourite.   ...and they only have a little hole where the jam goes in!

[chook fowler 18,174]

48 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Mmmmmm doughnuts. 

Hot jam doughnuts at the G after a win for the MFC are my favourite.   ...and they only have a little hole where the jam goes in!

I concur Homer 

[Deemania since 56 6,122]

19 hours ago, hemingway said:

Sure you want to keep him but not at any cost. It’s always the team over the individual. That’s Richmond’s mantra. 

The realist must affirm that one man does not make a football team successful. In this case, one man (subject) could make greater success of his own carriage onfield for the benefit of the team awaiting to receive.

[Little Goffy 12,510]

19 hours ago, Action Jackson said:

As long as we win I don't care if Brayshaw has 15 touches or 50.

It's all about the team performing well, not individual stats or accolades.

This is why the Tigers have been so dominant, they are easily the best overall team in the competition, not necessarily the most talented.

 

Even a quick look at Richmond's 2020 Best and Fairest makes your point unequivocally.

2020 Jack Dyer Medal top 20

1st – Jayden Short, 53 votes

2nd – Dustin Martin, 50

3rd – Nick Vlastuin, 49

4th – Shai Bolton, 44

5th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 43

6th – Liam Baker, 42

7th – Dylan Grimes, 41

8th – Noah Balta, 40

9th – Kane Lambert, 39

10th – Trent Cotchin, 37

 

Other notes on that - a lot of little guys, very few full-time midfielders, but most of all, hard workers.

Wouldn't be complaining if one of Bowey or Laurie become our Short. That's more or less what they were drafted for.

[Superunknown 3,307]

14 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I too think Oliver is better then Cripps.

Cripps is seriously overrated. 

Last night was one of the best games I've footy I've seen in ages (note: I am not saying it's the best game in ages, just one I've seen - in NNSW we have a dearth of good games but now I have $5/month Kayo - thanks Telstra, I'll see more) - and I thought Cripps went missing when needed most.

[spirit of norm smith 12,839]

A few years ago we thought he’d be a real star.  Then the concussion concerns meant we are lucky to be seeing him on the paddock.  
 

Brayshaw was very quiet v Saints.  Had 7 touches up to 3/4 time and then a better last quarter.  Played wing for most of the night.  Had three inside 50s in last quarter.  I’d keep him in as the team is performing.