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POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton


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7 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

And Goodwin's press conference where he focused on our 'composure in the last 2 minutes' was just odd. It was a comment you'd make if we'd won by 30+, not fluke a win because they sprayed gettable shots in the end.

I have zero doubt that what Goodwin says in the presser is vastly different to what he says behind closed doors. 

I don't even listen to them as I know he will just play a straight bat, but that is how it should be. 

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26 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

All the games are clearly showing the affects of the lockdown and how teams are not connecting well and hitting the wall. Though still think we have concerns on how we continue to rollover so easily , dumb decisions kicking to 1v2or3 & which forwards will kick our goals as T Mac looked lost. 

did not worry gold coast or port 

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10 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

No no no Andrew ! This will not do at all !

Far too decent and logical.

You lambast "vitriol" yet it is the very essence of Demonland - the staff of life so to speak.  You must learn to direct it at the AFL, the Media, the coach and the players ( anyone really). However, and most importantly, always remember it is best aimed at other posters. 


PS . A bit of smut and adolescent obscenity is always welcome also.

PPS. A word of warning. There are quite a few wackos and perverts on this site so be wary of them.

 

Uncle what is this staff you speak of?

In shock re your P.S. 's!  Coming from such a fine up-holder of all that is good and altruistic.  Shame on you!

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A few observations:

The first quarter and a half were superb. We hit up players inside 50 with bullet passes and had a real ‘jump out of the blocks’ moment.

Gawn may have dominated, but he seems to get too sure of himself and begins blindly deft tapping the ball over his head, despite no Melbourne mids being set up for it. He has done this for a while now and it’s not smart. It’s part of the reason they began winning the clearances. 
 

May’s decision to go 3rd man up and try to take mark of the year allowed Carlton their first goal and kept them in touch. Joel Smith followed his example in the second half. We have to address the backline cohesion. I think it is lacking as so many are new and have not spent a lot of time playing together. However, that is basic footballer awareness. May lambasted Frost in a game last year, where he (Frost), did exactly what May did last night. So, hold yourself accountable May.

While on Steven May....he should never ever kick in. Some of those kick ins last night were putrid. It’s not acceptable. He is not equipped to kick in. The kick ins generally were poor. Even Salem struggled. We were too predictable. 
 

James Harmes is completely wasted at HBF. Or wherever it is that he is playing back there. We needed to switch him to the midfield last night. Would love to have seen him go and tag Cripps, so Oliver could truly get off the leash. 
 

TMAC is either a sook, who cracked it that his brother was dropped, or is a bog ordinary football. Offered nothing last night and his perpetual falling to ground after a contest is deplorable. He can barely chase and offers no pressure inside fifty. 
 

fritsch cannot be trusted in front of goal. He missed many easy shots last night. The last one was the worst of them. He can take a mark, but if he continues to butcher shots like that, we will be forced to look elsewhere. Hannan should be in the side.

Jackson showed enough to suggest he will be a good player for us. I would have liked to see him rucking and Gawn going forward though. I don’t know what the thinking was there. Gawn did a lot of work in the back half, which is great, but we were on a roll and this was rarely experimented with during the game. 
 

Hunt can stay for a while. He is a smart footballer and applies great pressure when the ball is not in his hand. Persist with. 
 

Viney struggled last night and did not have the same impact as rd1. We are a midfielder short at the moment as there wasn’t great midfield rotation when guys in there were struggling. Vanders in perhaps and Harmes to go through there as well. 
 

Joel Smith either plays forward or goes and plays in the Magoos. We are not a development side. We can’t play him and hope he learns when to stay, when to go. He has no natural football smarts as a back man. It almost proved costly last night. His decision to fly for a mark, as the 3rd Melb. Player in the contest, while leaving his opponent out the back, was dumb beyond belief. 
 

carlton have made a habit of giving up big leads and then trying to fight back. So was not surprised that they did again last night. The disappointing part was that we handed them some momentum with our poor decisions and then couldn’t counter when their tails were up. We went back to bad habits. Bomb kicking inside 50. Going slow when we should have gone quick. Kicking backwards fifty metres instead of long down the line to force a boundary throw in. Really basic errors that creep into our game, very quickly. 

Edited by Leoncelli_36
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33 minutes ago, Bates Mate said:


We kicked 1 goal 2 points in the second half and that goal was a piece of petracca individual brilliance with an element of luck.

Collingwood kick 0 goals after half time, odd round, gold coast belting west coast, I wonder how the WA premiers approval rating go after that loss.

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1 minute ago, Kent said:

did not worry gold coast or port 

You just don’t know how players trained in small  groups and then getting them to connect as a whole group will vary and some will take longer than others. To think that they just gone back all together and they all click is a bit naive. Don’t get me wrong our club has big questions marks on our coaching and on field leadership which will pan out for the remain weird season. 

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13 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Exactly how I felt.
A very MFC like performance today.
Proved they have learnt absolutely nothing and are as mentally weak as ever.
Having said that they did surprise me by hanging on.
Was sure our total humiliation would be completed.
 

For sure, I thought we were gone. And we should have been, really, as the Blues had their chances. Like every other MFC supporter, I will now spend the next week in the baseless hope that last week was an aberration and that the real Demons will stand up next week... 

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Lockdown rust, who knows the state of of mind of the players with lockdown, mental health more problem then covid19 in Australia, in the rest of the world, how do you lockdown countries where if you don't work you don't eat that day, times that by 2 months then starvation is exploding.

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I am a Goodwin fan. 

But... Although Carlton had 3 talls in their forward line, there was no reason to play Joel Smith back. He's just not a backman. He flies when he should stay down, tries to mark when he should punch. It wasn't good. And then we played Jetta on McKay. Inexplicable.

Clarry did a great job, but with a midfield with very little impact, surely we could ask Harmes or Viney to 'tag' Cripps and then use our midfielders in a more attacking way. 

Rivers was amazing. Jackson showed great signs. But geez we had a lot of players not contribute, and most failed to contribute over 4 quarters. We won't get away with that too often. 

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We will know after next weeks game how good or bad yesterdays performance was. If we play well and win well next week we will praise our effort to get up against mounting odds late against the Blues. If we get flogged next week well its...…………………...a worry at the least.

We seemed to lack individual and team composure after half time. It completely went missing in the last quarter. Fumbles, misdirected kicks, easy marks by Blues. We were kicking to team mates who were outnumbered. They were kicking to un marked players and running the ball out. etc, etc. Rabbits in headlights!!

Team leaders need to stand up in these situations. We won so there is some argument they did. Gawn, Oliver and Petracca  kept us in the game and got us over the line. Viney was below his best so he will improve - no  doubt. T Mac needs to have more influence on a game like he used to. That should start to come and soon. Strong tall forward play can lift a team. We have seen Tom do that before.

Just as well quarters were shorter otherwise......

Hunt was a good option up forward but Kossi will add that defensive speed tackling pressure to a much higher level. That can make it difficult for backs to run out as easily and lift team mates. Kossi was missed yesterday and will come straight back in.

Do we keep giving games to Jackson or do we bring in the Weed for another go. That will be hard for selectors. Might pay to give Jackson a go in a few Scratch games to build his confidence. He competed well against the blues but the more mature Weed may give us a bit extra if he can get his marking going. Looks like the Weed gets a go. Brown is a break glass in case of emergency selection. Not there yet.

May and Lever still trying to get that 'chemistry' going. Will eventually happen and that should gel the backline.

We did win, with a number of new players it may take a little time for it all to come together. Its wait and see from here.

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Just a thought (and maybe an idiotic one) - would it be worth switching TMac and May? Or having May has the primary forward with TMac playing second fiddle and Fritsch as 3rd up? Not sure where that leaves our backline because I'm not a fan of Smith but obviously it would mean OMac would have to come in. Petty is another option, I liked him up forward last year so maybe May and Petty up forward with TMac back to defense?

I know this would unsettle us immensely but just trying to think of how to fix our forward structure.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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35 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

A few observations:

 

James Harmes is completely wasted at HBF. Or wherever it is that he is playing back there. We needed to switch him to the midfield last night. Would love to have seen him go and tag Cripps, so Oliver could truly get off the leash. 
 

 

Very solid summary Leon.  In particular Goody's willingness to throw our best midfielders into a wasted lock down role really need highlighting. 

There is nothing Clarry was doing that Harmes couldn't have done just as well? Freeing up our best mid to offer more damaging attack on and with the ball in hand.  The exhaustion factor of marking / grappling and following such a gun player around the park should not be underestimated.

Goody's been doing this for years and not just with Clarry.  Seen him do it a number of times with Chunk years ago when Chunk was still firing on 5 cylinders and Harmes the up and commer leaving lessor lights to try and get the CPs.

One of the worst decisions a coach can make imv showing no foresight or faith in players that can carry out the role juat us well such as Harmes who was wasted down back.

It's decision making (by the Coach) like this that goes towards determining whether we run away with a match (as we should have last night) or fall over the line like we did.

This team woukd be crunching opponents like the Blues by 6 to 8 goals plus on the trot with a better coach imho.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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8 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Very solid summary Leon.  In particular Goody's willingness to throw our best midfielders into a wasted lock down role really need highlighting. 

There is nothing Clarry was doing that Harmes couldn't have done just as well? Freeing up our best mid to offer more damaging attack on and with the ball in hand.  The exhaustion factor of marking / grappling and following such a gun player around the park should not be underestimated.

Goody's been doing this for years and not just with Clarry.  Seen him do it a number of times with Chunk years ago when Chunk was still firing on 5 cylinders and Harmes the up and commer leaving lessor lights to try and get the CPs.

One of the worst decisions a coach can make imv showing no foresight or faith in players that can carry out the role juat us well such as Harmes who was wasted down back.

It's decision making (by the Coach) like this that goes towards determining whether we run away with a match (as we should have last night) or fall over the line like we did.

This team woukd be crunching opponents like the Blues by 6 to 8 goals plus on the trot with a better coach imho.

You're assuming it was a wasted lockdown role and that Harmes could've nullified Cripps though. Maybe Cripps gets off the chain on Harmes in the first quarter, it's closer at QTR time AND then he dominates up forward when it's too late and we move Oliver onto him. We don't win by 6-8 goals, we lose. 

Oliver beating him in the first half is a win.

Edited by John Demonic
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Said all preseason (and to be fair, a big part of last year too) that Jones is done. In was often criticised for my strong view on it. I will say it again, for him to break the club games record, we won't be playing finals and he will be gifted the games to get there.

I also have regularly said that I just don't see in Smith what the coaches do.

Both played terrible last night. Not on their own, but the two that I have gone all-in on for many months just confirmed my doubts.

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1 hour ago, Hogan2014 said:

How could they sing the song & forget their Captain and is true was tommlison & Langdon missing??  What’s that saying about our leaders as you would make sure you walk off with all your teammates! 
 

 

Refer to quote #322 for a detailed explanation as to why it happened.
It’s very enlightening and from someone who thinks they have inside club knowledge. 
?

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1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

It’s interesting post game where people focus attention. It always seems to be moments that catch us and become the issue and not the overall trend. My immediate reaction was how much 3 up killed us in defence. Yet on reflection a lot of people thought we were too short in defence yet their talls kicked 2 goals and they kicked 7 goals from 48 entries. Granted they fluffed a few we generally defended well based on numbers. Upon reflection after a masterclass first quarter we were blunted at the stoppage, lacked chase through the middle (which we had in spades in the first) and were void of any connection through half forward. This was both the mid and defensive blind kicks to their zone as well as the in ability of our half forward line to have any impact (Melksham, TMac, Jones).

The backline will be the same next week I expect so look forward to the reverse howls about Omac.

I do suspect the forward line will be tinkered with even if that is just to adjust to the MCG and to bring in Kossie.  

Agrew with most of that but it's a bit simplistic to just focus on the talls goals when we have 3 players jumping for every high ball, probably due to having an undersized match up, and they get easy crumb goals. 

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44 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Gawn may have dominated, but he seems to get too sure of himself and begins blindly deft tapping the ball over his head, despite no Melbourne mids being set up for it. He has done this for a while now and it’s not smart. It’s part of the reason they began winning the clearances. 
 

While on Steven May....he should never ever kick in. Some of those kick ins last night were putrid. It’s not acceptable. He is not equipped to kick in. The kick ins generally were poor. Even Salem struggled. We were too predictable. 

fritsch cannot be trusted in front of goal. He missed many easy shots last night. The last one was the worst of them. He can take a mark, but if he continues to butcher shots like that, we will be forced to look elsewhere. Hannan should be in the side.

Hunt can stay for a while. He is a smart footballer and applies great pressure when the ball is not in his hand. Persist with. 
 

The Gawn miracle tap gave Carlton there first scoring chance and some momentum, was very silly. Although it might've been that the Carlton mids switched to roving and calling for the tap from him. Still, our senior players have to be smarter.

I don't think you can bemoan predictable kick outs and then ban May from kicking out. Can't have your cake and eat it too. May hit a number of targets from 30-40 out that broke open the zones. Unfortunately he went for a few miracle look away kicks (a Jordan Lewis invention last year) and tried to lace some 50m out. I'm fine with May taking a share of the kick outs and continuing to go for 30-40m options because he has a very good penetrating kick on that distance, just put away the Hollywood stuff. Hopefully Rivers gets his chance to take some kick outs soon.

Fritsch's kicking for goal was off, they were all bad misses, including the snap on his right where he had time to get on his left. But there's very little evidence than Hannan is the answer, at least not until his body holds up for a consistent period. Hannan's set shot technique is even more concerning than Fritsch's, he has an even higher ball drop and slices across the ball. 

Hunt looks good on TV. His hard leads for the ball are what I like best about his game. But both that and his chase down tackles look good on zoomed in TV when he's around the ball. Watch him live though and I don't think you'd call him a smart footballer. It's why he ends up with only 7 disposals, 7 pressure acts and 2 tackles. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Just a thought (and maybe an idiotic one) - would it be worth switching TMac and May? Or having May has the primary forward with TMac playing second fiddle and Fritsch as 3rd up? Not sure where that leaves our backline because I'm not a fan of Smith but obviously it would mean OMac would have to come in. Petty is another option, I liked him up forward last year so maybe May and Petty up forward with TMac back to defense?

I know this would unsettle us immensely but just trying to think of how to fix our forward structure.

Not an idiotic thought at all.

Back in the old days coaches occasionally swapped FB and FF during matches. It has certainly gone out of vogue. Both TMac and May were having poor matches, so well worth a try. 

In particular Silvagni was quite often moved from FB to FF when the side was struggling.

 

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