POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[Wrecker45 3,378]

33 minutes ago, 58er said:

Sorry but it may have something to do with being a ruckman !

Not sure Gawny has many footy smarts other than his ruckwork and comedy routines.

No more leadership yesterday under the Capt VC and every one else then previously.

I'd put Hunt in the leadership group. He always seems to go to another level when the game is in the balance. 

Watch the last two minutes On the MFC website he is in the backline, on the wing and in the forward line.

[Dees2014 2,377]

16 hours ago, bingers said:

Not an idiotic thought at all.

Back in the old days coaches occasionally swapped FB and FF during matches. It has certainly gone out of vogue. Both TMac and May were having poor matches, so well worth a try. 

In particular Silvagni was quite often moved from FB to FF when the side was struggling.

 

Yes, the most outstanding example being David Neitz. We all remember when Wayne Carey in  his prime described Neita as the best opponent he ever played on. I think sending TMcD back to CHB would maybe run him into form  at his best he is our most effective forward, but we can’t let the current situation continue. 
 

By the way, what do we think is wrong with Melsham. He was probably our most effective forward in the 2018 final series. It would be nice to have that form back...

[Wrecker45 3,378]

2 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Yes, the most outstanding example being David Neitz. We all remember when Wayne Carey in  his prime described Neita as the best opponent he ever played on. I think sending TMcD back to CHB would maybe run him into form  at his best he is our most effective forward, but we can’t let the current situation continue. 
 

By the way, what do we think is wrong with Melsham. He was probably our most effective forward in the 2018 final series. It would be nice to have that form back...

Carey said Neitz was the best CHB because Carey was a competitive beast and hated Glen Jackovich.

I've been told this by a previous captain of NM who still catches up with Carey.

[spirit of norm smith 12,875]

Goodwin? Where was plan B. We were winning the clearances and contested footy for 1 1/2 quarters.  Then stopped.  The Blues started to win the inside and the contested possessions.  We had no answer or ability to transition.  It reflected 2019 and Goodwin has not resolved this.  

[Jaded No More 57,744]

8 hours ago, Pates said:

Something I wanted to add, Harmes in defence is failing. He was an attacking, valuable midfielder and now he’s been turned into a useless Half back who has little influence on the game. If it’s because Brayshaw is already there, then drop Brayshaw and bring in Hibberd. 

Brayshaw has been poor two weeks in a row, his free ride is over. Drop him to regain some form in the scratch match, Harmes takes his place and they compete for that last midfield spot. 

Completely agree regarding Harmes. We've moved him out of necessity to fill a role that he is not suited for, thereby robbing us of a quality midfield player and not actually filling a role down back. This is Fritsch to the backline and Brayshaw to the wing 2.0.

Fancy having a player come 3rd in the Brownlow playing as an inside mid, and then going "sorry, you might be slow and not a great kick, but go to the wing now and struggle to get a touch". 

[Demon3 2,541]

I have let the dust settled on what was a rather weird day on Saturday. At times, first half, i was particularly pleased, good pressure, good run and carry, and we hit targets. By the end of teh game i was really disapointed, we stopped attacking, went into our shells, showed no leadership and in the end as most people have said on here, very lucky to win. So my take outs:

Bailey Fritsch has a big head.. literally and figuratively. He tried to take the back spot and wrestle, and when he got a mark he thought he was Wayne Carey, almost had an arrogance about him, Tom Mc continues to disappoint.. his lateral movement is gone, and for some reason, he doesnt want to lead. For some reason, and its beggars belief we dont have a specialised forward coach, but out fwds are reluctant to lead. Hunt is the only one and he is good at it because he is quick and has good hands. But they lead back, they want it sat on their head.. and the coach talks about connection.. well Ray Charles would tell you that if the fwds dont lead up at the ball, connection is going to be pretty hard. One example of what a leading fwd can do to a fwd line is when Hunt kicked his 3rd in a row, in teh second qtr.. we had run and carry, hit up leading target, Trac lead really well from full forward, it opened up space and allowed Hunt to run into space with a beautiful weighted kick.

Its pretty simple and it really annoys me.  Anyway, we would want to play a lot better against teh Bombers on Sunday. The upside is that we showed we can play well and we also had a lot of players down, so there is upside and im happy we won. the chance to be 2-1 after 3 is so important. 

[Demon Dude 425]

18 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Goodwin? Where was plan B. We were winning the clearances and contested footy for 1 1/2 quarters.  Then stopped.  The Blues started to win the inside and the contested possessions.  We had no answer or ability to transition.  It reflected 2019 and Goodwin has not resolved this.  

the blues midfield fought back but the main problem we have IMO is Goodwins inability to do something about the opposition putting an extra number behind the ball and its really hurting us. their fightback started right when they put an extra back and it turned the game for them.

all teams do this to us, as they can just easily intercept in our forward half, especially with someone undersized like Fritsch or Hunt at FF, and then rebound quickly catching out our slow half forwards like TMac, Jones and Melksham and our poor chasing midfielders and then the defence doesn't have time to push up and get the game on their terms either. 

the ball just goes forward to an outnumber, then goes straight out again down the other end allowing them to push up on us instead. 

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:24 PM, Biffen said:

I'd be less embarrassed if I was diagnosed with Canine syphilis.

Post of the year for mine Biff! 

[3183 Dee 2,602]

http://Last year we would’ve lost that game: Melksham

 

Erm...except we played Carlton last year and exactly the same thing happened! And Gold Coast?!
 

 

[TRIGON 4,715]

12 hours ago, 58er said:

 

Snd that's why he doesn't fit into our "All fly At  once" Defence which has been going in at least since Roosy left.

Jetta is undisciplined in this and at least 2 other backs seem to fly against Gawn Lever and May ( who committed his own Flying suicidal act yesterday.

Yes, guilty. However being matched up on a key position forward would draw you into the aerial contest.

[Jaded No More 57,744]

1 minute ago, TRIGON said:

Yes, guilty. However being matched up on a key position forward would draw you into the aerial contest.

Yep. When your opponent is a foot taller than you, how else are you expected to defend? 

That match up was beyond stupid. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,416]

4 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Yep. When your opponent is a foot taller than you, how else are you expected to defend? 

That match up was beyond stupid. 

No idea why our defense sets up that way?? I've seen it done before and it never works. 

[titan_uranus 22,237]

11 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Yes, guilty. However being matched up on a key position forward would draw you into the aerial contest.

Agree about the effect of standing next to someone 15cm+ taller than you, but Jetta's been a serial offender of unnecessarily going up in marking contests for years.

[Brownie 5,143]

14 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Yep. When your opponent is a foot taller than you, how else are you expected to defend? 

That match up was beyond stupid. 

So Jetta as one of our most experienced and important back men is out of touch. He's always done well on Betts.

Why wouldn't you match him up on him and hopefully he'll play himself in to form?

this seems like common sense which seems to have vanished from the coaches.

We can't afford to sack Goody and I know he's still relatively new to it.

We still seem to be missing the right culture and leadership on field and the right strategies in the box to get anywhere near a flag.

[Bay Riffin 1,413]

On 6/13/2020 at 9:02 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Did you see Tomlinsons' attempts at overhead marks today? He's inept in that area for his size.

Rivers, Harmes and Joel Smith give us 3 mobile defenders with height who can hit the contests, they just need up field pressure and confidence to attack the ball or man.

The first quarter showed what the backline can do when the pressure is on. The backline's bigger problem was knowing their roles and finding the right balance.

The forward and mid accountability was - as usual - horrendous. 

 

I agree. Lets not forget these guys in our backline have played very few games together. that cohesiveness can help save goals and rebound more easily. and its being able to work with our wingers and midfield to get that release kick out.

 

 

[Jaded No More 57,744]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree about the effect of standing next to someone 15cm+ taller than you, but Jetta's been a serial offender of unnecessarily going up in marking contests for years.

Agreed, and I also think that comes from playing with a crap backline for years where he was basically the only experienced player and tried filling in the holes as third man up. 

He needs to let that go and trust that Lever, who to be fair he has barely played with, can do that now. But it must be a hard habit to break.

Smith on the other hand needs to calm his farm and just do the basics well first, rather than trying to outmark his dad at every contest. For me Smith is the perfect case of looks like a perfect footballer, plays like a mess. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

 

[Bay Riffin 1,413]

On 6/14/2020 at 12:43 PM, Scoop Junior said:

Yep Hunt had some important moments late both with some run and with pressure/tackles. Fritsch too laid a tackle and applied pressure at a critical time and also took a good mark (just missed the sitter set shot!).

But there were still some bizarre moments. Jetta had a free kick in the back pocket with a minute left. Either needs to be a chip to a free teammate or long down the boundary line to a pack. His kick did look like it went off the instep (so perhaps a skill error rather than a decisional one) but it went inboard to a contest and opened it right up, giving Carlton another chance. Shades of Jones versus North last year.

Then Lever marks deep in defence with less than a minute left. Surely everyone knows the kick is going to be long down the boundary (as there were no short options) and had to run to that spot as soon as he took the mark. I don't blame him for the kick as he only has 5 seconds after the mark to find an option. He kicks it to the right area but it's a 2 on 1 - Fritsch is the only Melbourne player in the area. Again very strange to leave it that open given the state of the game.

There were some good individual efforts to get us across the line but it's hard not to feel if a better side was in Carlton's position they would have created another chance to win and would've won. We need to be smarter in these situations.

its a hard one. we were out on a our feet and he had no easy options. Carlton were running all over us. the question is how can that happen as they were a man down. I think our youngsters and Bennel perhaps had no petrol in the tank.

[Bay Riffin 1,413]

On 6/14/2020 at 2:06 PM, Half forward flank said:

MFC had more than a year to plan for the loss and replacement of a blue chip ,once in a generation forward in Hogan. And what do we do, quickly rush at a deal for a CHB we play at full back. That play has thrown our goal to goal line completely out of whack and something we are still playing with like deckchairs on the titanic.

and what was your solution ?

[bing181 8,151]

1 hour ago, Brownie said:

So Jetta as one of our most experienced and important back men is out of touch. He's always done well on Betts.

Why wouldn't you match him up on him and hopefully he'll play himself in to form?

this seems like common sense which seems to have vanished from the coaches.

Actually, Jetta did play on Betts, (also Murphy).

Have a nice day.

[poita 3,573]

13 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

By the way, what do we think is wrong with Melsham. He was probably our most effective forward in the 2018 final series. It would be nice to have that form back...

Melksham is the same player he's always been - out of every eight games he'll give you one where he is brilliant, two where he is good, and five where he is lazy, selfish and completely disinterested. We've seen two of the latter category so far this year, so he should be due for one of the good ones this week. For an experienced player, there is far too big a gap between his best and worst football.

[whatwhat say what 18,830]

our defence - other than them spoiling each other in the air - wasn't the issue for mine

our mids stopped contested and only run one way, and our forward didn't work defensively

it's the same story forever and ever, ad infinitum

[TRIGON 4,715]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree about the effect of standing next to someone 15cm+ taller than you, but Jetta's been a serial offender of unnecessarily going up in marking contests for years.

Agree that he's often guilty of it. During the game he was regularly matched up on a much larger key forward. Not great a way to coach i out of him.

[Hogan2014 390]

McDonald played his best at FF & not sure why he’s not playing there??? Looks completely lost

Jetta was playing on a forward who was twice his height???? 
 

 

[The Chazz 4,077]

13 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Carey said Neitz was the best CHB because Carey was a competitive beast and hated Glen Jackovich.

I've been told this by a previous captain of NM who still catches up with Carey.

Interestingly, as many times as this is brought up, Carey produced a list of the best 20 players he has seen, and Neitz isn't on it...

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/04/06/the-best-20-players-wayne-carey-has-seen/

While there are players like Dunstall on the list, a large majority of the 20 are player that Carey would've played against.

Glen Jakovich is on the list.

Edited June 15, 2020 by The Chazz
The last line

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Bay Riffin said:

and what was your solution ?

King that St Kilda took was obvious.