POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[Demon trucker 1,723]

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

All those sides you mention weren’t playing indoors against Carltank 

But we were.
1 Goal in 2.5 Quarters is not acceptable 

We were lucky only because Carlton suck

No one was against Gold coast, 

[binman 37,724]

5 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Is it possible T Mac cracked the sads that his bother got omitted and hence came in with a poor attitude?

No. Or to be more accurate I bloody hope not. 

[Diablo Rhino 22]

Reflecting 24 hours post game, I’m going to remain positive.  While the first 1 & 1/2 quarters showed glimpses of the attacking, dangerous 2018, the lack of intensity post half time had 2019 all over it.  Close victories, despite the obvious flaws, build confidence.  I’m sure everyone who’s heart beats true knows the shattering feeling of week after week of honourable losses and pea hearted performances of the not so distant past.

It’s a start, we’re on the board.  Onwards.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

MFC had more than a year to plan for the loss and replacement of a blue chip ,once in a generation forward in Hogan. And what do we do, quickly rush at a deal for a CHB we play at full back. That play has thrown our goal to goal line completely out of whack and something we are still playing with like deckchairs on the titanic.

[leave it to deever 15,128]

There are 2 Senior players that have been wonderful performers for this club but  perhaps they have lost their drive or age has simply caught up with them.

One is a small defender and the other was a captain.

I am very much hoping they come good again.

Especially the defender.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,391]

27 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Couldn't agree more, titan.

The first 1.5 quarters of the game was what we want to see from our side, and what we've been built to do - winning clearances, getting numbers around the ball and applying high pressure in the forward half.  Both the coaches and players work in tandem superbly here, and we know we are capable of this kind of footy on a regular basis.

And then they let each other down.  Goodwin and the coaches don't make enough adjustments when the opposition does, or they are changes that I can't see.  The players, for their part, begin to panic, miss targets, don't run hard enough and generally don't respond well enough when the pressure is on.  When the tide begins to turn, neither the FD or the players step up to the plate enough, and we go from a well oiled machine to one that is breaking down and barely able to cross the finish line.

I have hope, and after a few months off, coupled with different training conditions, means we are probably a little rusty (as most teams are), but I'm interested to see how we respond in the next three weeks.  

As a side note, I also think our selection was a little.... off.  I don't think Bennell or Jackson were really ready to play yesterday, and it hurt us a little bit.  Add this to the fact that we had a number of key players down throughout the game and we're rather lucky to walk away with a win.  But I'll take it.

They should be planning and training for this mid-week, we have players and coaches watching tape of opponents and analysing their games - the strategy needs to be implemented before the game so that when things start going against us the players know exactly what to do to halt it. We have enough senior leaders onfield now that this needs to fall on them. The fact we seem unable to halt momentum and reverse back in our favour means we either haven't prepared well enough (that's on Goodwin and the FD) or we aren't able to do anything to stop it (that's on the senior leaders and playing group).

Knowing which it is is impossible for supporters though if we do see some changes occurring you can assume that the coaches have at least tried to implement something that the players don't have the capacity to implement 100% of the time. The worry is if they can't do it against Carlton what hope do they have against the better teams.

[binman 37,724]

1 hour ago, Scoop Junior said:

Yep Hunt had some important moments late both with some run and with pressure/tackles. Fritsch too laid a tackle and applied pressure at a critical time and also took a good mark (just missed the sitter set shot!).

But there were still some bizarre moments. Jetta had a free kick in the back pocket with a minute left. Either needs to be a chip to a free teammate or long down the boundary line to a pack. His kick did look like it went off the instep (so perhaps a skill error rather than a decisional one) but it went inboard to a contest and opened it right up, giving Carlton another chance. Shades of Jones versus North last year.

Then Lever marks deep in defence with less than a minute left. Surely everyone knows the kick is going to be long down the boundary (as there were no short options) and had to run to that spot as soon as he took the mark. I don't blame him for the kick as he only has 5 seconds after the mark to find an option. He kicks it to the right area but it's a 2 on 1 - Fritsch is the only Melbourne player in the area. Again very strange to leave it that open given the state of the game.

There were some good individual efforts to get us across the line but it's hard not to feel if a better side was in Carlton's position they would have created another chance to win and would've won. We need to be smarter in these situations.

On that lever kick I criticised him for floating that kick (a technique issue) and not putting it to fritters advantage (which given the situation had to be his right side so if he couldn't mark he get get it over the line).

But you're right why were there not more dees players in that area. As you say that was where he had to kick it. It was actually 5 v 2 in that area. We were super lucky we won that ball as if they won it, as they probably should have, it would have gone straight back inside their 50. We got it inside our 50 and that was that.

The other thing I found perplexing was why at least one player didn't gut run to provide a short option. Even if lever doesn't kick it to them it stretches their coverage and mitigates against an out number.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They should be planning and training for this mid-week, we have players and coaches watching tape of opponents and analysing their games - the strategy needs to be implemented before the game so that when things start going against us the players know exactly what to do to halt it. We have enough senior leaders onfield now that this needs to fall on them. The fact we seem unable to halt momentum and reverse back in our favour means we either haven't prepared well enough (that's on Goodwin and the FD) or we aren't able to do anything to stop it (that's on the senior leaders and playing group).

The first half, at least, suggests that we did this.  We came out, had a gameplan and executed it perfectly.  We made Carlton look like a second rate team, and whatever we looked to implement, we did it and did it well.

However, as you say, once Carlton made their own changes and upped the pressure, we didn't respond well to it.  In fact I don't think we responded in any way, shape or form.  We just kept persisting with what worked at the beginning and hoped that the tide would turn.  The problem is that it didn't.  Is that on the FD for not changing things up?  Or is that also on the players for not sensing the change and making sure they continue to work just as hard as they did before?

It's on both.  But you're right in saying that, if we can't do it well against Carlton, then we have little hope of doing so against stronger opposition.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,391]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

The other thing I found perplexing was why at least one player didn't gut run to provide a short option. Even if lever doesn't kick it to them it stretches their coverage and mitigates against an out number.

Laziness and selfishness. Players have been getting away with this for ages. It's crucial, especially in the forward line to run hard for a ball you know you're not going to get to create space behind you for your teammates to work in. Along with failing to shepherd for your teammates after dishing off the footy its one of things that does my head in.

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,041]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

We just have to get some learnings out of the win. 

I like your thinkings ET. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,168]

43 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I've just watched the final two minutes again (here).

It starts with Carlton bringing the ball back after Fritsch's miss. Our zone is woeful. Jones and Brayshaw are guarding space leaving Fritsch to defend three Blues. Docherty's poor handpass stops them getting it out.

Then Salem kicks to Melksham who can't get the ball over the line, it comes back to Salem who gets crunched, and when Carlton get possession you hear Garry Lyon say "oh, they're out". Why? Because we've pushed our defensive zone so far up the ground that we've left space out the back.

Walsh's kick to Mackay is Melbourne-esque and Jetta gets the free. He looks to go down the line, Viney and Hunt are open near the boundary, but I think (and maybe I'm being generous here) he mis-kicks it so it goes in board. Still, Petracca is there to take the uncontested mark, but fluffs it (maybe his only mistake all day, to be fair). Ball gets back to Walsh who, MFC-esque again, fails to see Casboult on his own and kicks it straight to Lever.

Lever then, correctly, looks down the other wing which is where he should be kicking it. No one leads there other than Fritsch. Meanwhile Joel Smith is standing in the goalsquare telling everyone to pause. Most of our forwards/mids are stuck on the other side of the ground and appear too tired or unwilling to get across to help Lever (Brayshaw is, again, in no-man's land).

Lever is forced to kick to the 2-on-1 but the Carlton player runs under the ball and we're able to clear. Langdon and Tomlinson gut run into the 50 to give us options and that's enough time off the clock to win.

One poor kick (Jetta's, but possibly a mis-kick rather than a bad choice) but the poor defensive positioning and lack of running was a bigger problem.

A major issue that is nothing new here.  It's been a problem for much of Goody's tenure so far.  And he refuses to adjust.

The rolling zone that too often pushes itself too high up the field allowing way too much room out the back when an opp rebounds quickly.  And when they do holes appear everywhere, they cut through or over it like a hot knife through butter with handball wide, footskills and run (combo of both with the top teams) and they're off to the races as we usually have no one behind the ball and or foot speed generally lacking to close down quickly enough when teams get a run on with their own speed of ball movement / foot speed.

After Rnd 7 against the Tigers last year Goody finally saw the errors of this and started to put a sweeper out back as a last resort protection to reduce the number of joe-the-goose rebound goals.  When he did so it appeared to work.  Im not sure but appears he has fallen back into the old ways and we are no longer playing the last man defensive sweeper this season?  Not being able to see the game from behind the goals i could be wrong though.

Seem to recall Hore played this role to aplomb on occasions last year.  Even kicking one of the team goals of the year in one match up north.

Don't underestimate the loss of Hore accross HB for Smith.  Hore is a gun in the making while Smith has no idea how to play this area of the ground.  Effectively one man down here y'day.

Then there's the loss of Petty up forward.  While certainly no superstar (yet) this bloke knows how to play a KF role when he's on and he offers a genuine mobile tall target, running the various forward patterns beautifully in comparison to say a T-Mac or the Weid.

Our biggest hole going forward, aside from a few extra nippy / tough but skilled (by foot) medium smalls/crumbers at ground level (Kozzy one small that will help here), is the addition of a genuine KPF.   T-Mac in a cameo role played deep out of the goal square a la 2018 is a handy 2nd or 3rd stringer.  Petty the same a little higher inside 50 and around the arc.  But we must snag that genuine KPF by season's end if we are ever to take this group deep into finals on a regular basis.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Scipio 5,868]

59 minutes ago, willmoy said:

I saw a Melbourne Player do one of the smartest kicks to advantage in about three years and he's only played 2  Games

Don't worry, we'll soon beat that out of him.

[Grr-owl 1,075]

11 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I like your thinkings ET. 

Excellent postings.

[Buzzy 919]

19 hours ago, GCDee said:

Sorry but putting down a team when they are 7 goals up for the sake of it and constantly running with it is not commentating. He is a grade A [censored]. 

It wasn't for the sake of it though was it!  He was proven to be correct. We nearly (should have) lost that game from a dominant position. 

Garry saw the signs early on and he was dead right.  He doesn't trust us, even 42 points up - and nobody should.

Not sure this is a great example for you to use.

[Scipio 5,868]

I'm keen to put that performance down to a hefty amount of rust, but it was worrying. Trying to focus on the positives here.

Positives:

• For the first time in ages, there was some (if slight) improvement on delivery inside 50. Was very satisfying to see a couple of leads honoured and hit up.
• Gawn clearly won't let the captaincy affect his personal performance.
• Petracca is showing strong signs of maturity.
• Fritsch looks a million times better as a forward, needs to work on his set shot routine.
• Rivers is already looking like a sensational pick up. Jackson was impressive for me too, continued to present and those contested marks will begin to stick before too long.
• Hunt's transformation into a dynamic forward looks complete.

Negatives

• Goodwins failure to respond to momentum shifts and changes in the opposition game plan is frightening. He has to learn, fast.
• McDonald is cooked and it's becoming embarrassing for him and the club. At this point, Brown actually offers more.
• The problem of multiple forwards going up in the contest continues to endure at the MFC. Smith needs to stay out of the defensive 50 and should be replaced by Lockhart.
• Melksham was bog average but I'm confident he can return to 2018 form. Can't say the same of the likes of McDonald or Hibberd.

All in all I think there are too many unknowns to take a whole lot out of that game.

[Buzzy 919]

16 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

A major issue that is nothing new here.  It's been a problem for much of Goody's tenure so far.  And he refuses to adjust.

The rolling zone that too often pushes itself too high up the field allowing way too much room out the back when an opp rebounds quickly.  And when they do holes appear everywhere, they cut through or over it like a hot knife through butter with handball wide, footskills and run (combo of both with the top teams) and they're off to the races as we usually have no one behind the ball and or foot speed generally lacking to close down quickly enough when teams get a run on with their own speed of ball movement / foot speed.

After Rnd 7 against the Tigers last year Goody finally saw the errors of this and started to put a sweeper out back as a last resort protection to reduce the number of joe-the-goose rebound goals.  When he did so it appeared to work.  Im not sure but appears he has fallen back into the old ways and we are no longer playing the last man defensive sweeper this season?  Not being able to see the game from behind the goals i could be wrong though.

Seem to recall Hore played this role to aplomb on occasions last year.  Even kicking one of the team goals of the year in one match up north.

Don't underestimate the loss of Hore accross HB for Smith.  Hore is a gun in the making while Smith has no idea how to play this area of the ground.  Effectively one man down here y'day.

Then there's the loss of Petty up forward.  While certainly no superstar (yet) this bloke knows how to play a KF role when he's on and he offers a genuine mobile tall target, running the various forward patterns beautifully in comparison to say a T-Mac or the Weid.

Our biggest hole going forward, aside from a few extra nippy / tough but skilled (by foot) medium smalls/crumbers at ground level (Kozzy one small that will help here), is the addition of a genuine KPF.   T-Mac in a cameo role played deep out of the goal square a la 2018 is a handy 2nd or 3rd stringer.  Petty the same a little higher inside 50 and around the arc.  But we must snag that genuine KPF by season's end if we are ever to take this group deep into finals on a regular basis.

Whilst I'm sure he'll be better for the run, I prefer Smith up forward... 

God knows we were crying out for a target at half forward yesterday.

Agree re Petty, he looks cumbersome but seems to get to the right spots.  Where is he at the moment? Or just not best 22...

 

[Grr-owl 1,075]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Traded Watts and Hogan and dropped his mate Hibberd.  I don't think lack of edge is a problem.

But where's the passion, the fire, the inspirational spark? There is none. Instead we get 'learnings.' I feel I'm stuck at new-age retreat.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,567]

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

So Carlton put an extra behind the ball, tightened up around the contest, and ran harder both ways.  They positioned better at stoppages to feed of Max and closed our exits when we got it first.  The boys on the park have to find ways to counter these simple strategems - even an under 12’s coach would get their team to do these things when they are being belted.  And our response?  Build pressure on ourselves and panic.

Max is pretty good at knowing when he needs to drop back into defense to help plug a hole when we are under pressure, but I'm struggling to think of any other players we have that make these kind of adjustments. 

[Return to Glory 7,681]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

I've just watched the final two minutes again (here).

It starts with Carlton bringing the ball back after Fritsch's miss. Our zone is woeful. Jones and Brayshaw are guarding space leaving Fritsch to defend three Blues. Docherty's poor handpass stops them getting it out.

Then Salem kicks to Melksham who can't get the ball over the line, it comes back to Salem who gets crunched, and when Carlton get possession you hear Garry Lyon say "oh, they're out". Why? Because we've pushed our defensive zone so far up the ground that we've left space out the back.

Walsh's kick to Mackay is Melbourne-esque and Jetta gets the free. He looks to go down the line, Viney and Hunt are open near the boundary, but I think (and maybe I'm being generous here) he mis-kicks it so it goes in board. Still, Petracca is there to take the uncontested mark, but fluffs it (maybe his only mistake all day, to be fair). Ball gets back to Walsh who, MFC-esque again, fails to see Casboult on his own and kicks it straight to Lever.

Lever then, correctly, looks down the other wing which is where he should be kicking it. No one leads there other than Fritsch. Meanwhile Joel Smith is standing in the goalsquare telling everyone to pause. Most of our forwards/mids are stuck on the other side of the ground and appear too tired or unwilling to get across to help Lever (Brayshaw is, again, in no-man's land).

Lever is forced to kick to the 2-on-1 but the Carlton player runs under the ball and we're able to clear. Langdon and Tomlinson gut run into the 50 to give us options and that's enough time off the clock to win.

One poor kick (Jetta's, but possibly a mis-kick rather than a bad choice) but the poor defensive positioning and lack of running was a bigger problem.

And the kicker (parden the pun) is that the coach said he thought that in the last 2 minutes we showed great composure.

[Hogan2014 390]

5 hours ago, Kent said:

did not worry gold coast or port 

You just don’t know how players trained in small  groups and then getting them to connect as a whole group will vary and some will take longer than others. To think that they just gone back all together and they all click is a bit naive. Don’t get me wrong our club has big questions marks on our coaching and on field leadership a glaring example singing the song without their captain. were was Viney to hold up the team for Gawn... Call it a mishap but strong culture clubs do the 1% well. 

[jnrmac 18,913]

3 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Yes he did with the negative twins,junior Mac and Clint, the negative twins, even after 10 goal wins, which by the way a can't wait for, hope they are round the corner. It's a pattern for the round, most teams have gone a half of footy with ever few goals, actually 90 % of teams have.

 

Yep, here's the problem with posters like you. You excuse poor performances. You'd be the kind that hangs around the players race after a 10 goal loss to pat them on the back.

The whole culture of the club is one that accepts mediocrity. Here we are playing a terrible team indoors and we burst out of the blocks and then completely capitulate. No on field leaders, a coaching panel that hasn't a clue and a supporter base that says 'oh well, its bette r than losing'.

Until we lose that pathetic acceptance of sub-par performances and demand 4 qtr consistent efforts we will be a terrible football club.

But you'll be on your rocking chair mumbling to yourself 'it'll be our year next year'.

Good luck with that.

 

 

[old dee 22,803]

20 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

And the kicker (parden the pun) is that the coach said he thought that in the last 2 minutes we showed great composure.

Do you still  listen to what he says?

Edited June 14, 2020 by old dee

[old dee 22,803]

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Yep, here's the problem with posters like you. You excuse poor performances. You'd be the kind that hangs around the players race after a 10 goal loss to pat them on the back.

The whole culture of the club is one that accepts mediocrity. Here we are playing a terrible team indoors and we burst out of the blocks and then completely capitulate. No on field leaders, a coaching panel that hasn't a clue and a supporter base that says 'oh well, its bette r than losing'.

Until we lose that pathetic acceptance of sub-par performances and demand 4 qtr consistent efforts we will be a terrible football club.

But you'll be on your rocking chair mumbling to yourself 'it'll be our year next year'.

Good luck with that.

 

 

Try as I might Jnr I can find nothing to disagree with in the above.

[Constant Mongrel 571]

4 hours ago, Farmer said:

Well once OMac was dropped Smith had to play back didnt he? I actually thought Smith looked v nervous.

i hate dropping a bloke after one match but in my view Omac is critical to the success of the May/ Lever combination.

you can't be too bloody nervous if you keep going for speccies! just completely out of his depth. no game sense. 

[Return to Glory 7,681]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

Do you still  listen to what he says?

Old Dee, I haven't been sleeping well. I recommend it.

Nah, I caught it whilst channel surfing.