POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[picket fence 15,040]

3 minutes ago, GCDee said:

Agree. We also got very stagnant when marking the ball between 80-100 metres from goal, many times we should have given off the hand pass run the 15 and drive the ball to 20 out or hit up the presenting forward rather than sitting the ball tmacs head 40 out from goal.

Let's see if goody can work out that "connection" which has been lacking for 25 straight games now 

Are you serious... he has had 18 months to work this out!!!

I fear another year wasted!

[Wiseblood 24,636]

T Mac had a shocker.  No doubt about it.  He's certainly not the Tom of 2018.

Playing Jackson as the second key forward didn't help his cause either.  I get the feeling he needs someone else down there to take the heat off him, and that he can't be the number 1 tall down there for us going forward.  I'm not necessarily convinced that Weideman would have done a whole lot better, but at least he knows how to play as a forward and he has the capacity to do more in the air and around the ground than Jackson can right now.

That's just one problem of many from tonight, and I do believe Jackson has a big future for us, but I'll be surprised if he gets another week.

[Brownie 5,119]

32 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Logic says it can’t be the coach or the players because it has been going on for so long. I don’t have an answer but it seems to be part of our culture, a tendency to be arrogant and to coast along when we have a half decent side. Oh for the days of Norm Smith and Ronald Dale! Tough and hard, never give an inch stuff! 

You can see we take the foot off the pedal during a match,

After a good win, we'll then drop an easy one. 

After we have a good season (2018), We do the same.

I remember hearing Mick Malthouse before the start of the 2019 season saying he didn't expect us to threaten as we have a lazy, rest on your laurels culture.

It's been there for a long time. It's the coaches job to change it.

Smiling and telling the players to be happy after that win seems ridiculous 

[Lou C. Fur 912]

55 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Problem is, unless you poach a star coach from another club, it's always a case of hire and hope.

And I honestly think we have deep seated cultural problems in our club. How many other clubs can give such depressing wins? I've been watching the Dees do this for decades. Smash a team early then sit back and get rolled. We don't often put the foot down, and that is what good clubs do.

Sometimes I wonder if this club would be too much for even the best coaches. Why are we so hopeless at maintaining 4 qtr effort?  Is it the list? Is it the coach? I honestly don't know, although I lean towards coaching/culture.

I have a different point of view:

I like, indeed love, beating Carlton by a point...

How's that for deep seated culture?

[Pennant St Dee 11,241]

Absolutely got out of jail. Some poor efforts by senior players.

I'll take the 4 points, plenty of negatives and plenty of positives but don't think the lucky win was lost on the playing group.

[DemonOX 8,529]

4 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Yes it was on the broadcast I watched, it was ling it was just a blast to let them know he wasn't happy 

I didn’t see it but good to hear. 

[Lou C. Fur 912]

27 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

1ST qtr was ok?

 

Was better than ok - 5 goals to scoreless was fn brilliant. Winning by a point after giving 'em a sniff was the icing on the cake...

 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

22 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

This kind of astute observation will probably be lost on the cheerleader nuffies here, but one of the big issues with forward entries was where the balls forward were being kicked from.

Too often the player with the ball didn’t run far enough so they ended up kicking floating long balls forward without any penetration.

A classic example was Brayshaw who could have run to the 50 (and had a shot) but instead kicked to an out-numbered Fritsch from about 80 metres out.

That was really annoying, Bennell could have easily got a handball and goaled. Our only goal in the 2nd half I thought was the wrong call from Viney to kick to Petracca when he had space to keep running. 

[picket fence 15,040]

I cannot see us being anything else but similar to last year.

We have some still deep seated issues.

We do not hunger enough.

I'm not sure Goodwin is the answer and still quite a few players need to stand up or GO!

One "Flukey" win Bah

We still aint that great!

[Sir Why You Little 34,405]

I am watching Port Adelaide do what we should have done today. 
 

(the Crows will now kick 5 in a row!!)

[old dee 22,802]

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I cannot see us being anything else but similar to last year.

We have some still deep seated issues.

We do not hunger enough.

I'm not sure Goodwin is the answer and still quite a few players need to stand up or GO!

One "Flukey" win Bah

We still aint that great!

We are not a finals side that is very Evident. 

[watchtheeyes 1,210]

13 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

OK...

THE GOOD...

Rivers fit in nicely across half back and, after misjudging the pace of the game early, settled quite well.  Had a lot more speed than I thought and wasn't intimated into taking the game on.  Liked the physical side of his game

Bennell simply getting through the match was a huge win for him and the club.  He is a gun and, body permitting, will get better with every match this year.  He was solid, without being magical. 

Jackson Whilst he's not ready for senior football, you can definitely see the attributes that Taylor liked.  Will be a good player for us, but I'd look to Weid next week now that Jackson has had a taste.

Hunt Hasn't been part for the discussions in people's best 22s for quite some time but he showed today some great football smarts and looked fast, sharp and dangerous up forward.  The speed and timing of his leads inside 50 make him look like a handsome, blonde Jason Dunstall.

Gawn. He's a champion.  That a term that is thrown around all too much, but in this case it applies.  The tap outs he was feeding to our midfield, particularly in the first half were insane.  He was back in defense for some clutch marks and is a towering presence around the ground.  Looks fit and is moving very well.

Our first quarter - It was brilliant and regardless of what happened after that, we showed the brand of football that we are capable of and it had the Carlton 18 running for the bunker.  We were fast, aggressive and slick.  Obviously, this was not sustained to the intensity that is required to succeed at the top level, but that first quarter needs to be the standard that we strived toward for four quarters every game.

THE KINDA GOOD...

Petracca First half was excellent and his goal in the third is the kind of shot he used to try to give off.  He is edging closer and closer to the player we know he can be.  There was an opportunity in the last quarter to really put his stamp on the season, but he wasn't able to impose himself like he had early in the game.

Oliver Played well, but is and should be held to a higher standard than most.  Seemed to be kicking and carrying the ball more than  usual and played well when the game was there to be won. 

Viney Continued with his good form.  Whilst not as dominant as his preseason games and round one, his game today was better than what were were seeing for the last couple of years.  He's fit, healthy... and angry.

Langdon and Tomlinson Will roll them together as they were recruited together to play similar roles.  Both showed a bit today, without tearing the games apart.  They're still getting into the swing of things at the club and it looks to be a good piece of targeted recruiting.  Tomlinson's pass to Hunt was beautiful football.

THE NOT SO GOOD...

The defense When the team defense was up and running, we were looking good, but when the momentum turned, we fell apart too easily.  It is always good to keep a team to 7 goals, but it is a concern that we conceded 18 scoring shots to 14.  The second half saw some classic Melbourne plays where four players went up and no one stayed down.  Salem had enough of the ball to really hurt Carlton,  but he didn't have his usual precision and creativity and Lever and May were solid but far from imposing.

Joel Smith Many here love him.  I still don't see it.  He seems like more of an athlete than a footballer and makes some very poor decisions about when to and when not to go.  This may be in part due to inexperience, but I still can't recall him playing a particularly good game at senior level.  He should be selected when his form absolutely demands it.

Jones- Looked to be playing a different game plan to the rest of the team today.  Was holding things up when he should have been moving the ball quickly and kept bombing his kicks to contests.  He's got a hell of a lot of points in the bank, but he'll need to show a lot more next week or he could find himself keeping Hibberd company.

Forwards As the leaders of the line, Melksham and McDonald did not impose themselves on the game at all.  This would have been one of Melksham quietest games for the club and TMac was moving better than last year, but didn't look at all threatening.  Fritsch has talent and a great set of hands, b ut if he continues to miss straight-forward shots at goal, then there is no point him being there at all.  Should have had at least four today if he took advantage of his opportunities.

Fitness I know nothing can replicate the real thing, but we either weren't fit enough or didn't have the desire to push hard enough in the last quarter.  Either way, it's a real worry going forward.

 

BUT...

We won - and in what will be a close season, you've gotta take that.  I think we probably showed today our best and worst football.  Going forward from here, if the Melbourne from the first quarter turns up every week, we'll win more than wee lose.  If second half Melbourne become a regular visitor, it'll make a short season feel very long indeed.

Good post, but I’d move Petracca up a level

[picket fence 15,040]

Just now, old dee said:

We are not a finals side that is very Evident. 

And so another year in the wilderness!

 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

12 minutes ago, ding said:

Fail to see how its on Goodwin?

The bloke is responsible for our habits. He has mentioned many many times about building good habits.

One of our habits is getting full of ourselves after a fast start (not that it happens often) and slowing to a virtual halt. If a Coach cant sort out that behaviour he is in the wrong job.

That it has been going on for decades say we are likely to have employed more rubbish coaches than most other teams. I dont include Roos as he started with a cupboard full of stale bread and at least made a Salad Sandwich out of it. Goodwin started with a Pantry from Masterchef and made Baked Beans on toast. We havent had a 3 course meal Coach for over 50 years.

Yes it's on him, as it would also be to his credit if we finally managed to shake those rusted on bad habits.

The buck stops with him. I really think he is a fraud as a coach. If he can prove me wrong i will put my hand up, but until then....

Fair enough, I don't necessarily agree with all of that but there is some merit there. Coaches roles have changed where they're not the ra-ra motivators like days past. You're right they are responsible for helping develop good habits but I also think most of that (culture) is driven from within the playing group. The organisation obviously has a large role in that which the coach is a leading part of but I also think a coaches role is more about game plan/strategy and communication with players ensuring they have clearly defined roles and know what is expected of them.

I just can't see how playing like we did in the 1st quarter vs the 3rd/4th can be placed solely or predominantly on the coach. The players have to be answerable for that and in particular the onfield leaders. Changing coaches won't change that.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

22 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Mainly a reference to the old creepy dude.

I don't think old dee is that creepy Clint ?

[Lou C. Fur 912]

13 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I cannot see us being anything else but similar to last year.

We have some still deep seated issues.

We do not hunger enough.

I'm not sure Goodwin is the answer and still quite a few players need to stand up or GO!

One "Flukey" win Bah

We still aint that great!

Bank each win and build...

[DubDee 20,322]

A quintessential MFC performance 

forget personnel, it’s all above the shoulders and leadership 

[Nasher 33,047]

It was frustrating and terrifying as all hell, but I don’t know how you could draw any conclusions from it. It has been the single weirdest round of footy I have ever seen. I’m more than happy to just take the win and be happy with that given how flat some teams have come out of this break.

[andrewb 16]

Hi everyone, first time poster here. Very happy to get a win, but a bit disappointed with the capitulation. I reckon it will take a few rounds for the crazy scenarios of the past 3 months to settle things down. I am a bit gobsmacked that this is a fan forum and the level of virtriol from 'fans' at our team. From reading a couple of threads it would seem that many posters forget our team is up against another team trying to win, and that our guys deliberately go out of the way to cause them angst. There is more to life than pissanting on dees players after a win, surely. 

[old dee 22,802]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think old dee is that creepy Clint ?

I have been called lots of things over the years but creepy is new Dr.

[Earl Hood 5,787]

2 minutes ago, andrewb said:

Hi everyone, first time poster here. Very happy to get a win, but a bit disappointed with the capitulation. I reckon it will take a few rounds for the crazy scenarios of the past 3 months to settle things down. I am a bit gobsmacked that this is a fan forum and the level of virtriol from 'fans' at our team. From reading a couple of threads it would seem that many posters forget our team is up against another team trying to win, and that our guys deliberately go out of the way to cause them angst. There is more to life than pissanting on dees players after a win, surely. 

Andrew you are making sense, don’t worry you will learn! Welcome aboard. 

[Demonland 64,361]

[Lou C. Fur 912]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fair enough, I don't necessarily agree with all of that but there is some merit there. Coaches roles have changed where they're not the ra-ra motivators like days past. You're right they are responsible for helping develop good habits but I also think most of that (culture) is driven from within the playing group. The organisation obviously has a large role in that which the coach is a leading part of but I also think a coaches role is more about game plan/strategy and communication with players ensuring they have clearly defined roles and know what is expected of them.

I just can't see how playing like we did in the 1st quarter vs the 3rd/4th can be placed solely or predominantly on the coach. The players have to be answerable for that and in particular the onfield leaders. Changing coaches won't change that.

 

32 minutes ago, ding said:

Fail to see how its on Goodwin?

The bloke is responsible for our habits. He has mentioned many many times about building good habits.

One of our habits is getting full of ourselves after a fast start (not that it happens often) and slowing to a virtual halt. If a Coach cant sort out that behaviour he is in the wrong job.

That it has been going on for decades say we are likely to have employed more rubbish coaches than most other teams. I dont include Roos as he started with a cupboard full of stale bread and at least made a Salad Sandwich out of it. Goodwin started with a Pantry from Masterchef and made Baked Beans on toast. We havent had a 3 course meal Coach for over 50 years.

Yes it's on him, as it would also be to his credit if we finally managed to shake those rusted on bad habits.

The buck stops with him. I really think he is a fraud as a coach. If he can prove me wrong i will put my hand up, but until then....

Ooooooooh! How enlightening! Cooking tips and culture advice. Why don't you just shut the * up and celebrate a win against CFC. I''m celebrating. I am! We WON!. Indeed history has been made... it's 5 wins in a row against the outer suburbanites! Carlton really are a rabble of an excuse for an AFL team now.. G O    T H E   M I G H T Y   D  E  M  O  N  S.     T  H  E    G  R  E  A  T  E  S  T     C  L  U  B     O  N    E  A  R  T  H .

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

6 minutes ago, andrewb said:

Hi everyone, first time poster here. Very happy to get a win, but a bit disappointed with the capitulation. I reckon it will take a few rounds for the crazy scenarios of the past 3 months to settle things down. I am a bit gobsmacked that this is a fan forum and the level of virtriol from 'fans' at our team. From reading a couple of threads it would seem that many posters forget our team is up against another team trying to win, and that our guys deliberately go out of the way to cause them angst. There is more to life than pissanting on dees players after a win, surely. 

Nice try, Simon.

[Scoop Junior 2,963]

As many have said it was horrible from halfway through the second quarter until the end. It's a rare game where you lead all day and are never headed but arguably deserved to lose. Really disappointing after such a great start to drop away like that and not be able to recover.

The backline seems to be copping it - I actually thought as a whole they probably won us the game (along with some Carlton misses). We went 11-0 in inside 50s at the start of the game; from that point on it was 48 to 29 against us but we managed to keep them at bay really until the last quarter. There were some mistakes from individuals and the defence started to creak quite badly in the last quarter but Carlton were basically walking it in with no pressure on the ball carrier. No defence can sustain a constant barrage of inside 50s when there is so little pressure applied up the ground.

To me it was more the midfield and forward line who were the culprits, despite being so good early in the game.

What happened to the pressure? It was sensational early - Carlton were nervous and fumbly and they barely got any clean ball. Then in the second half we could hardly lay a glove on them and they got out in space time and time again. I just don't understand how it can go from such a high level to such a low level in such a short space of time.

And same with the clearances. We went from a position of absolute dominance to then getting pummelled in the clearances in the second half. This is meant to be a strength of ours with our big-bodied midfield and even more so when it's Gawn against an inexperienced ruckman. Like the pressure it was just so disappointing to completely drop off in an area we should be dominant in.

There's been a lot of talk about TMac - confidence, form, injury, etc. - I think he's just not as good as people think he is/expect him to be. Don't get me wrong, he can be a very handy second tall forward - a really effective foil for a gun KF the way he was for Hogan in 2018. But he's not the main man - it's not his fault, being your side's no.1 KF is the hardest role in footy and not many have the ability to do it. He has a lot of good attributes and is still clearly a best 22 player but he needs help.

We are hugely reliant on Weid making it and being that dominant KF. I still have time for him and he needs a good run at it and to get some form and confidence and go from there. But if he doesn't make it, we are desperately lacking in this area.

It was so obvious in the second half when we just needed a KF to clunk a few to get us out of trouble. Every time it went in Carlton either marked it or ran it out and it meant we could never reset and press up. Carlton just recycled the ball and attacked again and we were constantly on the back foot. Having that big man take a few enables you to structure up again, a bit like a striker in soccer holding the ball up and allowing his defenders to push up and his midfielders to make runs in behind. It's so important when you need to arrest the momentum in a match.