GAME 12: Demonland's Best/Favourite Demon 1988-2020 - Jones vs McDonald

[Demonland 64,761]

Today sees Nathan Jones take on James McDonald.

You can either vote by going to our Facebook or Twitter pages or for convenience you can vote in the poll above.

Nathan Jones:
286 Games
138 Goals
2014-2019 MFC Captain
3 x Keith Bluey Truscott Trophy

James McDonald:
251 Games
56 Goals
2 x Keith Bluey Truscott Trophy
2008-2010 MFC Captain
2006 All Australian

Tournament Fixutre

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,418]

This is probably the hardest so far in my mind. 

[Deemania since 56 6,132]

Jones, just ahead for me. Jones' movement and congested possessions have been remarkable in clearances. The same can be said of JMcDonald, who fed the ball beautifully across the whole ground when space permitted. Macca was faster, as well, with good anticipation to collect possession.

However, Jones has been a consistent warhorse for the Club across many games where it appeared that he was the only midfielder in operation - or in a reflection of the 'old time' rover. He gathered literally tons of possessions and was difficult to overcome on his day. Macca exhibited the same skills and abilities but these were just under the tally that Jones provided.

Macca made more intelligent use of the ball than Jones, the latter so often bombing long to a contest and a congestion. Closer in, Jones was much better with disposals but team balance had not always been optimal for Jones' disposals to be notably above average, as these factors were with Macca - and Macca tended to have less of these opportunities in terms of frequency. 

This is a difficult comparison, once again. IMO, Macca had the better game when on song. Jones get the nod because of his longitudinal efforts and tallies...just.

[dl4e 5,583]

Flip a coin.

[Slartibartfast 15,758]

It's was sad when these two were drawn against one another in the first round.  Both would be in my top 5 or so, both hugely underrated by many MFC supporters IMO.

Jones will probably win mainly based on the fact many of the younger supporters didn't see or have forgotten how good Junior was.

I voted Junior.  IMO he was cleaner, made better decisions and was a better clearance player.  He won two B&F's in a period when we had players like Travis, Ooze, Neita, Robbo and others of high standard.  Jones won when he had little opposition which is not to suggest he didn't deserve them but merely to point out the greater competition Junior faced.

But the clincher for me is Junior's AA.  Competition for mid spots was significant.  Judd, Cousins, Beams, Pendles, Bartel, Ablett and on you go.  Junior was judged against them and was selected AA.  Jones has faced similar competition but wasn't.

And finally I think Junior was a better captain.  It's always hard to tell from the outside but where the captaincy never seemed to sit comfortably with Jones it always did with Junior.

Picking one over the other made me feel a bit sick but on an objective measure Junior shades Jones because of his AA and a few intangibles.

Shocking situation to have them drawn against each other round 1, both greats of the Club who offer so much more than many others in this draw.

[spirit of norm smith 12,890]

You have two children and have to name a favourite.  Too hard. 

[Demonland 64,761]

8 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Shocking situation to have them drawn against each other round 1, both greats of the Club who offer so much more than many others in this draw.

Top 20 Rank was based on HUN list. I Picked the next 12 players (subjective I know) and randomly “ranked” them. Junior unfortunately got paired with Chunk. 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

I'll go with Jnr being more creative across his career.   I think a bit smarter a footy player.

[Laughing Goat 308]

Another hard one but going for James McDonald.....

Both great leaders & their loyalty is significant, however, JM a much smarter team orientated footballer who used the ball better across his career & this was evident with his All Aust selection.

[Lord Travis 10,162]

Both great servants of the club. Junior McDonald gets my vote as I think he was a better leader. Both good players who got the most out of themselves and should be admired.

Was a sad day when Junior was pushed out the door.

[P-man 13,168]

2 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

It's was sad when these two were drawn against one another in the first round.  Both would be in my top 5 or so, both hugely underrated by many MFC supporters IMO.

Jones will probably win mainly based on the fact many of the younger supporters didn't see or have forgotten how good Junior was.

I voted Junior.  IMO he was cleaner, made better decisions and was a better clearance player.  He won two B&F's in a period when we had players like Travis, Ooze, Neita, Robbo and others of high standard.  Jones won when he had little opposition which is not to suggest he didn't deserve them but merely to point out the greater competition Junior faced.

But the clincher for me is Junior's AA.  Competition for mid spots was significant.  Judd, Cousins, Beams, Pendles, Bartel, Ablett and on you go.  Junior was judged against them and was selected AA.  Jones has faced similar competition but wasn't.

And finally I think Junior was a better captain.  It's always hard to tell from the outside but where the captaincy never seemed to sit comfortably with Jones it always did with Junior.

Picking one over the other made me feel a bit sick but on an objective measure Junior shades Jones because of his AA and a few intangibles.

Shocking situation to have them drawn against each other round 1, both greats of the Club who offer so much more than many others in this draw.

i remember Junior well for the rookie turned club champ who admirably battled through injury throughout his career. I still voted for Chunk.

Both are heart and soul and very difficult to split, but when I’m old and grey, which player’s efforts will I reflect upon more? It will undoubtedly be Jones for his heroics during the club’s darkest period of a generation. Not to say that Junior had a cakewalk as captain in 08-09, but [censored] got real during the Neeld years. Jones was the lone ranger of that era. Strength during adversity is hard to look past. 

Was Junior the better leader? Almost certainly, although such things are difficult to judge from the outside and Jones clearly isn’t short of admirers among the playing group.

Jones fell short of AA selection at his peak circa 2014, but he would’ve been worthy. It’s a great pity he got injured prior to round 1 and now the pandemic hitting. He will win back some admirers in a forward role this year if and when the season gets going again.

All that said, talking one of them up shouldn’t be interpreted as talking the other one down. As you say, a pity to see them matched up this early.

Edited April 20, 2020 by P-man

[darkhorse72 1,724]

Junior definitely was he was a smarter footballer, coming through the rookie system and constantly improved to end up as captain.  Jones in many aspects has not improved aspects of his game since he has been drafted.  True he joined us at a crap time and has been a great clubman but being one of the best in a poor team doesn't compare to be a good player in a far stronger side and getting AA. 

I have been wondering if the age of those voting and their direct experiences is skewing the results to more recent players?

 

[Lord Travis 10,162]

24 minutes ago, Darkhorse72 said:

I have been wondering if the age of those voting and their direct experiences is skewing the results to more recent players?

Recency bias is a legitimate thing. More recent players are fresh in people’s minds and will usually win a vote.

Similar to how Dustin Martin gets talked up as one of the greatest footballers of players time. It’s recency bias and in reality he’d probably be lucky to scrape into a top 100 list.

[tiers 2,761]

Getting harder.

Junior was a really good player player and leader but did not have that extra bit that would make him great. He was also consisent but as captain he was not able to lift the team.

Chunker is a better, more determined player who singlehandedly had to take on the role of midfield drive, hardness and leadership. It was almost too much for any one player but he did it. It is sometimes forgotten that when he started and he had more senior players to share the load he was supreme in close and if he did not gather the ball, then no one else did. He has been expected to carry the team in some dark days without help on the filed or in the coaches box.

Jones for me.

[P-man 13,168]

3 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Recency bias is a legitimate thing. More recent players are fresh in people’s minds and will usually win a vote.

Similar to how Dustin Martin gets talked up as one of the greatest footballers of players time. It’s recency bias and in reality he’d probably be lucky to scrape into a top 100 list.

Can also work in the opposite direction. The mystique of players often grows with time. Some people scoff at the very thought of modern day champs being mentioned in the same sentence as those of yesteryear.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,137]

5 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Was a sad day when Junior was pushed out the door.

And just as sad watching him in a GWS jumper when he played against us in 2012.

[Pates 9,536]

This was a really tough one for me, I went for Jonesy but only just. They are arguably very similar players in their background and both worked their butts off to get where they are. They also have the respect of the competition for digging their heels in and being leaders when no one else wanted to stand up and be counted.

I was glad to hear on the Dee-brief podcast the Junior doesn't hold ill will towards the club, I think most fans weren't happy about how things went down with him being push out, particularly given our lack of experience and leaders at the time. The only way I can rationalise it is that we had quite a few older players limp to the end of their careers and the club didn't want to have that happen in him as well. The irony being they ended up doing something far worse by pushing him to another club (and GWS at that! ?).

[Swooper1987 2,745]

McDonald was a far superior footballer to Jones.  A smarter player, as nearly everyone has said; a much better user of the ball; an inspirational leader; quite possibly the most courageous player we've had in the last generation.  An outstanding player in good MFC teams - B and F and AA in the last MFC team to make finals before 2018.  Jones has been a loyal servant, and I don't want to do him any disservice at all, but he is an honest foot soldier.  His Club Champion awards were all won in very poor sides (not his fault), he's never made an AA squad, let alone team and his record just doesn't stack up against Junior.