To Hell & Back: Episode 5

[Redleg 37,556]

Just loved these videos.

[chook fowler 18,212]

Overall a good insight into the behind scenes and the commitment and passion of those involved however this last episode seemed a bit contrived and as such fell a bit flat.

[low flying Robbo 979]

One thing I noticed from this episode is the way Goody deals with the players. I can imagine so many coaches asking that same question about possession numbers and it being a trick question... "No we want more disposals!!" ?‍♂️ 

North Melbourne were wasting so many little chip kicks around the back when we were laying some great pressure on, but I didn't realise there was that much of a difference in numbers.

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

2 hours ago, low flying Robbo said:

One thing I noticed from this episode is the way Goody deals with the players. I can imagine so many coaches asking that same question about possession numbers and it being a trick question... "No we want more disposals!!" ?‍♂️ 

North Melbourne were wasting so many little chip kicks around the back when we were laying some great pressure on, but I didn't realise there was that much of a difference in numbers.

Quality not Quantity 

A very useful phrase in so much of what we do. 
put the opposition under extreme pressure in all directions (like Kozzie was being shown in that video passage) and they will rack up useless possession stats, until they crack. 
 

One precision kick from a forward will either kick a goal or put someone dead in front

[DEE fence 4,448]

18 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I pray for this, the 7th light tower of the MCG.

[bing181 8,164]

19 hours ago, hardtack said:

Well, it’s got to be a bitter pill to swallow, and it would definitely be a blow to the ego to find out in front of everyone that he wasn’t their number one. It also shows just how much he wants it and hopefully that will drive him on to bigger and better things. I did like the way that Goodwin handled what must have been a very awkward situation...even Max looked a little uncomfortable.

You're presuming that they (Viney and Gawn) weren't told beforehand.

Not only would it be good/standard practise I would think, from their reaction and a couple of things that Goodwin says, I get the impression they knew.

Not that I would know ...

[bing181 8,164]

14 hours ago, Uncle Fester said:

It must be hard to go from a see ball get ball kid

I think you're underestimating the amount of preparation and game planning that goes on, even at lower and junior levels. And he was playing in the SANFL (albeit reserves), there would have been systems in place and clear roles to play.

[bing181 8,164]

6 hours ago, It's Time said:

Yeh was really interested in the off the ball zoning work filling up escape space that Plapp went through with Kossie

Along the same lines, there was some really good insight from Tom Mac in the commentary for the North-Dees practise match video if you get a chance. He commented on Oscar that he does a lot of work off the ball shutting down angles etc. that people wouldn't notice. (I'm paraphrasing, can't remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines.)

Not giving Oscar a pat on the back either, I'm sure it's true for all of the players getting regular games.

[Engorged Onion 9,255]

4 hours ago, low flying Robbo said:

. I can imagine so many coaches asking that same question about possession numbers and it being a trick question... "No we want more disposals!!" ?‍♂️ 

 

Having worked with a particular clubs players - one of the hardest things to do for a player on the cusp, but not fully entrenched (only roughly 5-8 at this club were/are guaranteed staters weekly) is to move the individual away from a notion of what ‘influence looks like. For all players brought up - it is hands on the pill... this changes in club land. 
It’s a hard rule to break, if Goodwin and co can do it - for those that feel unsure about their role and to compete in a role safe and secure that even if I don’t touch the pill I am safe as there are a plethora of other ways to demonstrate I am doing my job, then the team and the individual will have more consistent performances. 

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

3 hours ago, bing181 said:

Along the same lines, there was some really good insight from Tom Mac in the commentary for the North-Dees practise match video if you get a chance. He commented on Oscar that he does a lot of work off the ball shutting down angles etc. that people wouldn't notice. (I'm paraphrasing, can't remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines.)

Not giving Oscar a pat on the back either, I'm sure it's true for all of the players getting regular games.

Interesting you should mention that interview, I was discussing it with someone the other day. T Mac was asked two questions and I got more information out of his two answers about what went wrong last year, what's been done over the summer and what's going to happen going forward, than any other information from the Club, the To Hell and Back doco and every interview the Club has given all preseason. That was a great demonstration of how to give an interview and information that can be given without disclosing too much but giving supporters a lot more understanding and confidence for the season ahead.

[spirit of norm smith 12,888]

Great insights into the club and the type of “people“ that the coaches and players are. Goody has a great connection. 
 

Just need to reflect that’s it’s the footy that counts and the next 26 weeks will determine whether we have built the right foundations for the COMBAT ahead. 

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

3 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Having worked with a particular clubs players - one of the hardest things to do for a player on the cusp, but not fully entrenched (only roughly 5-8 at this club were/are guaranteed staters weekly) is to move the individual away from a notion of what ‘influence looks like. For all players brought up - it is hands on the pill... this changes in club land. 
It’s a hard rule to break, if Goodwin and co can do it - for those that feel unsure about their role and to compete in a role safe and secure that even if I don’t touch the pill I am safe as there are a plethora of other ways to demonstrate I am doing my job, then the team and the individual will have more consistent performances. 

I love the concept of "roles". I think the concept seems to be very under utilised. I heard the coaches got away from it too much last year and were over complicating things. It seems to simplify the game for players. Roos was the master of it. I remember Marty Mattner saying that when Roos interviewed him to go to the Swans he said if you come this will be your role. He defined it for him before he even arrived and he said it was exactly what he did when he got there. It's great to see Goody focusing on it so clearly. 

[bing181 8,164]

2 hours ago, It's Time said:

Interesting you should mention that interview, I was discussing it with someone the other day. ...

But also the format. Where else, except on the Demonland podcast of course, do players (or coaches) get to talk for 20+ minutes?

The quick 2 minute post-match MFC interview or 30 second radio/TV grab doesn't lend itself to much more than "yes, we've all been working hard and yes, the foot feels fine" type of answers.

[hardtack 10,126]

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

You're presuming that they (Viney and Gawn) weren't told beforehand.

Not only would it be good/standard practise I would think, from their reaction and a couple of things that Goodwin says, I get the impression they knew.

Not that I would know ...

Someone else did raise that point, to which I replied:

“By “they”, if you mean Max and Jack, then yes, you may be right... but the reveal to the rest is still going to be painful.”

Edited March 9, 2020 by hardtack

[P-man 13,168]

Jack did look pretty [censored]. Not to mention embarrassed. Was written all over his body language.

But if the pre-season is any indication, a [censored] off Jack Viney with something to prove is bad news for one section only - the opposition.

[Demon trucker 1,743]

3 hours ago, P-man said:

Jack did look pretty [censored]. Not to mention embarrassed. Was written all over his body language.

But if the pre-season is any indication, a [censored] off Jack Viney with something to prove is bad news for one section only - the opposition.

And many on demonland

[Its Time for Another 4,052]

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

But also the format. Where else, except on the Demonland podcast of course, do players (or coaches) get to talk for 20+ minutes?

The quick 2 minute post-match MFC interview or 30 second radio/TV grab doesn't lend itself to much more than "yes, we've all been working hard and yes, the foot feels fine" type of answers.

Agree but that doesn't stop the Club doing these sort of interviews during the week. There seems to be an epidemic of fear that someone is going to give something away. This interview was brilliant and informative and no danger to the club. 

[Young Blood 1,985]

Boy that was uncomfortable watching the captain announcements. The disappointment and discomfort of Jack really put a dampner on Max's news (and as @chook fowler stated the video in general to a degree). Interesting that the club really bared all with that one.

I hope at some point for peace of mind (not that he owes us that) but that Jack makes a statement solidifying Goodwins comments of being 'all in' etc. Obviously he is, exemplified by his preseason performance on Friday. I'm sure much like Jones it will take some time for the bitterness to drop off and the good thing is he's three years younger then Max so I believe he'll captain again as you can see how much he enjoyed it and relished the role. At 24 he's still got some growing to do as a leader. I'm fairly certain he will.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Yung Blood

[Lucifers Hero 36,991]

23 hours ago, low flying Robbo said:

One thing I noticed from this episode is the way Goody deals with the players. I can imagine so many coaches asking that same question about possession numbers and it being a trick question... "No we want more disposals!!" ?‍♂️ 

North Melbourne were wasting so many little chip kicks around the back when we were laying some great pressure on, but I didn't realise there was that much of a difference in numbers.

I'm guessing that is to reinforce to players that while Champion Data etc rate # of possessions, they mean diddly squat to coaches.  Part of reinforcing a 'Team First' mind set rather than individual performance/rankings; something that has been or crept into a number of our players.

As an aside I was pleased to see the 'Esprit de Corps' banner pop up a few times. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It does blow my mind that AFL players in this day and age need to be told that winning possession isn’t everything.

That stuff is taught in juniors.

[low flying Robbo 979]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It does blow my mind that AFL players in this day and age need to be told that winning possession isn’t everything.

That stuff is taught in juniors.

Very true, although I reckon Tom Mitchell thinks otherwise and I feel like that is what won him the Brownlow.... cheap touches

[titan_uranus 22,287]

23 hours ago, It's Time said:

Interesting you should mention that interview, I was discussing it with someone the other day. T Mac was asked two questions and I got more information out of his two answers about what went wrong last year, what's been done over the summer and what's going to happen going forward, than any other information from the Club, the To Hell and Back doco and every interview the Club has given all preseason. That was a great demonstration of how to give an interview and information that can be given without disclosing too much but giving supporters a lot more understanding and confidence for the season ahead.

What were the questions and his answers?

[ponsdale 3]

13 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

What were the questions and his answers?

Have a listen for yourself. From about 3min in.

 

[binman 37,958]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:06 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

I'm guessing that is to reinforce to players that while Champion Data etc rate # of possessions, they mean diddly squat to coaches.  Part of reinforcing a 'Team First' mind set rather than individual performance/rankings; something that has been or crept into a number of our players.

 

Perhaps. 

But I think the message is more do with the fact that the big gap in disposals was an indicator of how well they constructed and held the shape of their defensive zone in our front half. The roos struggled to clear the ball from our front half and were forced to chip it back and forth until giving that up and kicking long to a contest.

Interestingly tmac in commentary noted a big emphasis had been placed this preseason on ensuring there was maximum pressure on the outlet kick. And after a number of short kicks ended in a long attempted clearing kick, praised Gus for working really hard to get to the contest and force the ball to ground.

Edited March 11, 2020 by binman

[binman 37,958]

On the above  collectively we were never fit enough last season to do the work required at the end of quarters and games to make opposition teams have to chip it around to get out of our front half. Which is one reason  why teams moved it forward so easily and it appeared we were one man down. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by binman