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The Breaking of Nathan Jones

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5 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If other clubs supporters had true respect for Jones they would be trashing and cursing him like we and others do to the likes of Selwood, Martin, Rance, Hodge, Franklin and other players who know how to win. They would never speak of Jones like that. Jones gets soft respect because he is ineffectual and benign and they are happy to have him keep on playing forever for us.

The difference being they are all premiership players in ruthless, successful clubs.

 

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8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The difference being they are all premiership players in ruthless, successful clubs.

 

The lack of ruthlessness keep the likes of Jones playing for us well past his time. Many better players have been tapped on the shoulder at successful clubs. That’s the law of nature that our club seems to have forgotten. 

Edited by america de cali
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Great Respect for Nathan Jones, to play for as long as he has with extremely poor sides, for a club with massive off field issues and to stick fat, most players would have jumped of the sinking ship.  The ship did plug the holes for a year but these plugs couldn't with stand the pressure of 2019.  Hopefully we have a stronger ship in 2020, my fear is we will never have strong enough structures to stop the boat leaking again.

On his on field performance, last 2 years he has be moved around a lot and really don't know what position they see him playing, he isn't a defender, gets lost on the wing and really is a in the guts type of footballer.  Unfortunately, the club sees him behind a few for the role he should be playing.

Edited by drdrake

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6 minutes ago, america de cali said:

The lack of ruthlessness keep the likes of Jones playing for us well past his time. Many better players have been tapped on the shoulder at successful clubs. That’s the law of nature that our club seems to have forgotten. 

We did tap players on the shoulder in the past, only problem was that it led to Neeld being coach. 
 

Jones is a has been though.

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8 minutes ago, america de cali said:

The lack of ruthlessness keep the likes of Jones playing for us well past his time. Many better players have been tapped on the shoulder at successful clubs. That’s the law of nature that our club seems to have forgotten. 

I think you're moving the goal posts a bit now mate.

Your point was Jones wasn't hated like the players you mentioned. Opposition supporters don't generally bother hating clubs that aren't successful.

And as far as 'tapping on the shoulder' goes, he was still being selected by a coaching group that had no problems dropping Vince and Lewis, so I'm not sure you can categorically state he's deserving of that 'tap' without being inside the club.

 

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11 hours ago, dworship said:

Wow, now I'm really impressed. This was my first reaction.

safe_image.php?d=AQDO0oCBZWAjhUEk&url=ht

Credit to @Sir Why You Little for having the good grace to appreciate this one.

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4 minutes ago, nacnud said:

We did tap players on the shoulder in the past, only problem was that it led to Neeld being coach. 
 

Jones is a has been though.

Our problems then were far deeper than a few ageing players. That has been well documented. 

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2 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Our problems then were far deeper than a few ageing players. That has been well documented. 

True, get ourselves right off field and we can succeed on field.

Anyways, Jones is still playing mainly for the sake of leadership and with an actual preseason should hopefully improve on last year. 

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16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Our problems then were far deeper than a few ageing players. That has been well documented. 

What else has been mentioned by coach and player during last season was the roles Jones was being given. If Jones was fulfilling those, then coach and player would be comfortable. We don't know the conversations that were had.

Jones will get games this year and will be given roles to carry out by the coach's. They may end up only being cameos but if they add value he may well get more time than people believe. When Crawford finally got his GF medal it wasn't just on sentiment it was playing a role. If memory serves, he didn't play every game that year, even when fit (think it was a little over half).

If Jones is managed correctly and we get to the finals he will find something within himself and the coach will know that.

I couldn't think of anything more fitting.

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56 minutes ago, TRIGON said:
12 hours ago, dworship said:

Wow, now I'm really impressed. This was my first reaction.

safe_image.php?d=AQDO0oCBZWAjhUEk&url=ht

Credit to @Sir Why You Little for having the good grace to appreciate this one.

Agreed

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Jones deserves enormous respect from all Dees fans for his resilience during some really awful years. I can't see a role for him in our best 22 in 2020. He is a centre mid or he is not in the team. He would have been more highly regarded as a contested ball mid who could drift forward to kick a goal from the 50 if he'd played in better teams in his prime. 

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This conversation seems to resurface every few weeks. This is less about Nathan Jones and more about the 20 players on the list who failed to step up and take his spot last year.

Jones played 22 games last season because he was seen as a far better option, even when the season was shot, than the likes of JKH, Stretch, J.Wagner and a bunch of others who have previously been given many opportunities and failed every time.

I expect Jones to play round 1 and he will hold his spot until someone puts together a solid enough run of performances at Casey to take it off him. Given our lack of depth and his durability, there is every chance he will play game 300 in round 15.

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7 minutes ago, poita said:

This conversation seems to resurface every few weeks. This is less about Nathan Jones and more about the 20 players on the list who failed to step up and take his spot last year.

Jones played 22 games last season because he was seen as a far better option, even when the season was shot, than the likes of JKH, Stretch, J.Wagner and a bunch of others who have previously been given many opportunities and failed every time.

I expect Jones to play round 1 and he will hold his spot until someone puts together a solid enough run of performances at Casey to take it off him. Given our lack of depth and his durability, there is every chance he will play game 300 in round 15.

Good points. I hope our depth improves enough. 
we need it

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10 hours ago, PaulRB said:

I think Jone will have a resurgent year without the “weight” of the captaincy to bear. 
Have faith. 

He could be a real dangerous small forward, he’s a good kick at goal and a decent mark.

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9 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

He could be a real dangerous small forward, he’s a good kick at goal and a decent mark.

Dismissing the point that he's as slow as a wet week, and would apply next to zero forward pressure.

But, yeah, I'm sure he'd be a "real dangerous small forward"...

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37 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Dismissing the point that he's as slow as a wet week, and would apply next to zero forward pressure.

But, yeah, I'm sure he'd be a "real dangerous small forward"...

If Goodwin can sort out our press, he won’t be a liability.

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52 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

He could be a real dangerous small forward, he’s a good kick at goal and a decent mark.

Sorry that just simply isnt true. His marking has never been a feature. And even if he did make a decent small forward we need quality small forwards or need to develop them quickly. Cant cop jones being picked ahead of Pickett for example. 

Edited by Gouga

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56 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

He could be a real dangerous small forward, he’s a good kick at goal and a decent mark.

Decent mark?  Contested  marks 2019 - Nil.
For career,  27 at an average of 0.09 per game. 
He is a good kick for goal but he tends to hang off the contests just outside 50 waiting and calling for a teammate to win the ball and get it to him. Never mind looking after an opponent or winning the ball himself. Seriously if his teammates were deaf, he would never get the ball.

Edited by america de cali
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If he can keep up that form today as a forward I would be ecstatic. I love him kicking for goal.  I understand his weaknesses, he could be nice addition forward of centre.

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I picture Jones being similar to what we had with Lewis and Vince in their last seasons, he’ll be in and out of the side potentially depending on injuries or demanding form. He will be valuable at times when younger blokes are tiring and he just knows how to get that extra 1% out of himself. 

He played very well in Marsh 1, so right now is in the 22 for round 1. 

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Nathan deserves a lot of respect.

However, the last few seasons has shown that Nathan's time to finish has come.

It comes to everyone. Given the financial rewards these days, we see too many players trying to hang on to their careers. Nathan has given a lot to the club but the club and the game has given a lot to Nathan, his material lifestyle, and, his future. There are not many people that are able to set themselves up for life in their early 30's.  

Also there is a lot of ego involved. And there are plenty of people (friends, supporters and club personnel) encouraging a player to keep going. Gary Ablett is one example of this influence. .

As they say in the classics, its always better to go out on on top rather than on the slide. Ablett should have retired. Sure he is still a great player, but he has become a shadow of his former self. 

The easy decision for Nathan was to step aside as Captain. The harder decision was retirement.

He has chosen to go on. I think its a mistake both for Nathan and the club. It was time for him to take the burden off his shoulders.

He is the past and not the future. This is where a wise coach could have intervened and encouraged the player to retire with dignity. I suspect that if Clarkson had been the coach, the outcome would have been different.

If we have a successful year and he is part of it, then his decision to go on may seem the right one. However, if he retains his place in the team, it still stops the development of a young player or someone that could contribute to team success for several years.

If we have another poor year, then Nathan could become an embarrassment. And on a personal level, he will find it very difficult to motivate himself, given his comments on 2019.   

 

 

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2 hours ago, hemingway said:

Nathan deserves a lot of respect.

However, the last few seasons has shown that Nathan's time to finish has come.

It comes to everyone. Given the financial rewards these days, we see too many players trying to hang on to their careers. Nathan has given a lot to the club but the club and the game has given a lot to Nathan, his material lifestyle, and, his future. There are not many people that are able to set themselves up for life in their early 30's.  

Also there is a lot of ego involved. And there are plenty of people (friends, supporters and club personnel) encouraging a player to keep going. Gary Ablett is one example of this influence. .

As they say in the classics, its always better to go out on on top rather than on the slide. Ablett should have retired. Sure he is still a great player, but he has become a shadow of his former self. 

The easy decision for Nathan was to step aside as Captain. The harder decision was retirement.

He has chosen to go on. I think its a mistake both for Nathan and the club. It was time for him to take the burden off his shoulders.

He is the past and not the future. This is where a wise coach could have intervened and encouraged the player to retire with dignity. I suspect that if Clarkson had been the coach, the outcome would have been different.

If we have a successful year and he is part of it, then his decision to go on may seem the right one. However, if he retains his place in the team, it still stops the development of a young player or someone that could contribute to team success for several years.

If we have another poor year, then Nathan could become an embarrassment. And on a personal level, he will find it very difficult to motivate himself, given his comments on 2019.   

 

 

I agree with all of that except that he should have retired or been pushed. I think we've learnt our lesson from James McDonald's exit. Sometimes there are cultural intangibles that are more important than just the football. I have no doubt he understands if he's good enough he will play if he isn't he won't. But keeping him sends a clear cultural message of respect to the playing group which outweighs the cost of his position on the list. 

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