Jump to content

Demonland

Darren Burgess on SEN (7/11/19)

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Older demon said:

Interested in his thought on the difference in training at Arsenal. Concedes soccer is less physical but their traing loads are higher and centre around pace, agility and speed of the mark. Fascinated that Robbie Graysons would be considered average for agility in premier league. I suspect the greater training for speed and take off may lower the number of hamstring injuries which is still the number 1 injury causing loss of game time.

Interestingly, at the gym yesterday, my instructor had a few of us do 3 one minute planks in the bottom section of a push up i.e. when your arms are bent and your chest is nearly on the ground and you have to hold that position for a minute. It’s pretty challenging.

Anyway - one of my mates was whinging about doing it again on the third rotation - to which the instructor then replied:

          - the fitness coach of the German soccer team which won the World Cup in 2014 required the entire squad do this for 20 minute intervals regularly - you need to do just one minute. Harden up.

I still can’t wrap my head around this. If this is true, I reckon Burgess’s Arsenal experience augurs very well for us. They are extremely fit dudes.

 

  • Like 3
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

He did actually. Armstrong is famous for doing more training, and targeted training than most other pros of his era.

What do suppose allowed that to happen? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terrific interview. Lyon and Watson obviously respect him. 

One take away is his comment about pre season surgery and rehab and the impact on fitness - you can never catch up in season.

Also interesting he noted that of the 18 post season surgeries 16 were to players in our best 22. 16. As guru bob might say. Think about that.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Lord Ivanhoe said:

Together with Dr Peter Brukner (world-renowned Australian sports medicine clinician and researcher)  What an awesome world leading Medical & sports science combo!

Spot on LI.

Absolutely no excuse for poor performances based on lack of fitness.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bing181 said:

FWIW, I'm also quite passionate about cycling, and one thing we've seen over the last decade is a move away from volume to intensity-based training (e.g. HIT training). It's what's key to training with power meters, and the recommendations that go with that.

Cyclist here too

if by intensity you mean metrics like TSS and look to things like CTL then yes it’s not just volume 

I know blokes who do 200-400km a week who can still have their bums kicked due to judicious training targeting FTP, w/kg etc etc 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

What do suppose allowed that to happen? 

I’m no LA apologist (though I do love me some The Move) but a) most of them were on it so, ceterus paribus b) he still killed everyone with training profile 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BW511 said:

I am quite passionate about cycling and have read some respected international level coaches who believe the volume is key, versus intensity.

This is to get people doing well in events ranging from 90mins full gas or 5-6 hours. It's also worth noting a guy that trains for the 100m sprint still does an absolutel mountain of hours of running throughtout the year for a 9-10 second event.

AFL players do very little training compared to many high level international sports, but we have the added variable of body impact/collision which requires management during the week.

Yes Compared to swimmers, and I imagine cyclists, footballers get off fairly lightly. Even State level swimmers will be doing 9 sessions a week plus weight sessions. The National level ones more.
Of course they don’t have to crash into a 90kg blokes running at them from any angle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, binman said:

I have wondered the same tging, but i think you are exactly right. They rolled the dice with the possible reward a flag.

As the doggies and tigers showed you need to take your chance if it presents. 

The right move I reckon.

Not sure how we can be compared to Rich and the Doggies. Neither of those teams carried injured players through their season. In fact the bulldogs in particular relied on feverish team/system pressure with young players coming in for 1st games playing on enthusiasm and knowing their roles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t like using the surgeries and injuries as an excuse, Richmond, Sydney, Geelong, WC etc have been backing up multiple years of finals. What I will say is it’s folly to dismiss it completely as a strong contributing factor. My worry has been that the club will look to the injuries and just say “oh well we’ll be back next year with better player fitness”. 

2020 shapes as a massively important year for the club, a good time to get someone with Burgess’s credentials on board. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Which players would you have pulled out of 2018 on route to a prelim purely because they needed end of season surgery?

Harmes, Hunt, Oliver, Petracca all were fine for 2019. Taking out Jetta? Taking out Tommy Mc or Melksham? Really pulling out Viney who finally got a chance at finals? Or Hannan and his match sealing goal. 

We had too many self inflicted injuries at the start of 2019 and didn’t manage post surgery guys back to form and fitness. But  there’s no way we should’ve rested guys. Imagine if the Dogs did that in 2016?

If Burgess tells us around 17 players needed post season ops / rehab after 2018, I'm pretty sure at least half of them would have been carrying those injuries from early in the season and didn't just get injured at seasons end. That being the case mfc had the option to treat players (with ops and longer rehabs) earlier in the season and have them back in time for finals and the next season. Below are some examples of players that re-injured and should have been given proper rehab and ops earlier in the season so they were back in time for finals and 2019 (and these are just the ones I can recall):

* McDonalds injuries started in the 2018 preseason and then again in May 2018

* Viney's troublesome foot flared on multiple occasions

* Hannan had persistent knee injuries throughout 2018

* Melksham carried an ankle injury through out 2018 and had repeat hamstring injuries

* Hunt twice injured his ancle in june and again in august 2018

These players all had leg injuries. Players can carry shoulder injuries and still do the running to get themselves up for the following season, but its leg injuries that cost you the following year and we should have better at managing them early in the 2018 season so they were back for finals and 2019.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Not sure how we can be compared to Rich and the Doggies. Neither of those teams carried injured players through their season. In fact the bulldogs in particular relied on feverish team/system pressure with young players coming in for 1st games playing on enthusiasm and knowing their roles.

Wotcha talkin abour willis?

One, I meant that the doggies flag and the tigers 2017 flag was unexpected and they grabbed the chance when the stars aligned. I wasn't saying anything about any injuries they may or may not have been carrying.

But secondly even if I was making a point about injury - which I wasn't- both clubs struggled the next year, particularly the doggies, who like us in 2018  were a very yoing team. And Ilike us the doggies struggled with fitness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, binman said:

Wotcha talkin abour willis?

One, I meant that the doggies flag and the tigers 2017 flag was unexpected and they grabbed the chance when the stars aligned. I wasn't saying anything about any injuries they may or may not have been carrying.

But secondly even if I was making a point about injury - which I wasn't- both clubs struggled the next year, particularly the doggies, who like us in 2018  were a very yoing team. And Ilike us the doggies struggled with fitness.

Hey Binman, your response to was to Deespencer's post that made reference to the doggies premiership in the context of not resting players due to injuries. So its fair to assume if you agree with that statement then that is how you also feel. Will take it that that's not actually what you meant though ... sorry for any confusion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Hey Binman, your response to was to Deespencer's post that made reference to the doggies premiership in the context of not resting players due to injuries. So its fair to assume if you agree with that statement then that is how you also feel. Will take it that that's not actually what you meant though ... sorry for any confusion

No. My response was to paulrb's post about rolling the dice to try and win a flag and that not putting players out for surgery was understandable given the potential reward. Which I agreed wirh.

And for what it's worth I also agree with deespencer's post on this topic. If you have a chance at a flag, which we did, you our off any surgeries that can be put off till season's end. Ill bet london to a brick tbst every team thst had won a flag in tbe last 50 years has done so with at least l one player.

Edited by binman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 “It’s 97 per cent skill (in soccer) and the outcome of the game of soccer is determined by skill, very rarely by fitness. The fitness team is never going to win the competition”

Perhaps  afl clubs focussed too much on the running/fitness ... 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, binman said:

No. My response was to paulrb's post about rolling the dice to try and win a flag and that not putting players out for surgery was understandable given the potential reward. Which I agreed wirh.

And for what it's worth I also agree with deespencer's post on this topic. If you have a chance at a flag, which we did, you our off any surgeries that can be put off till season's end. Ill bet london to a brick tbst every team thst had won a flag in tbe last 50 years has done so with at least l one player.

It’s also looking at the decisions of 2018 (I.e. not putting players to surgery during season so we can make finals) in the context of what happened in 2017, where we missed finals by the smallest margin in the history of the game... 

Only the MFC can dish this stuff up. But our time is coming! 
Go Demons

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, BW511 said:

I am quite passionate about cycling and have read some respected international level coaches who believe the volume is key, versus intensity.

This is to get people doing well in events ranging from 90mins full gas or 5-6 hours. It's also worth noting a guy that trains for the 100m sprint still does an absolutel mountain of hours of running throughtout the year for a 9-10 second event.

AFL players do very little training compared to many high level international sports, but we have the added variable of body impact/collision which requires management during the week.

It's an interesting debate in fast bowling too. Restricting loads to protect from injury might be doing more harm than good according to some.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Interestingly, at the gym yesterday, my instructor had a few of us do 3 one minute planks in the bottom section of a push up i.e. when your arms are bent and your chest is nearly on the ground and you have to hold that position for a minute. It’s pretty challenging.

Anyway - one of my mates was whinging about doing it again on the third rotation - to which the instructor then replied:

          - the fitness coach of the German soccer team which won the World Cup in 2014 required the entire squad do this for 20 minute intervals regularly - you need to do just one minute. Harden up.

I still can’t wrap my head around this. If this is true, I reckon Burgess’s Arsenal experience augurs very well for us. They are extremely fit dudes.

 

I've always thought that the plank isn't that good of an exercise as the ability to consciously contract the muscles is poor after a short (20/30seconds). As a result the plank very quickly starts challenging tissues of the body it shouldn't be (ligaments etc) rather than the muscles of the core. I much prefer the idea of 10x 30sec planks with like a 3second down reset and up phase. Just my random thoughts :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, bing181 said:

FWIW, I'm also quite passionate about cycling, and one thing we've seen over the last decade is a move away from volume to intensity-based training (e.g. HIT training). It's what's key to training with power meters, and the recommendations that go with that.

This is absolutely true, but the pros still do a mountain of volume. A good friend of mine rides in the world tour (has won multiple grand tour stages) and made a change in his training 3-4 years ago which has benefited him greatly. He dropped from 5-6 hours a day to 3-4. That's still 20+ hours a week of training not inclusive of pilates, gym etc.

For your weekend warrior, there is a lot of gains to be made from High Intensity, particularly when they are time crunched.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, DubDee said:

We haven’t had a fitness bloke with this sort of hype since Misson. 

My thoughts exactly.

 

If Paul Roos was here, he would be saying " the stuff that the players do at the clubs across-the-board varies slightly.  The big discrepancy is what the players do in their huge time away from the club".

 

From my end, nothing really changes until the decision-maker(s) (regarding players getting sent back out after injury onset) changes.  Brukner for example is great at what he does, but that becomes insignificant if you have:

(a) a desperate coaching box ordering injured players back on the park.

(b) a head-strong player (Viney) wagging the dog and insisting that he comes back early from foot surgery; or that he gets back on with his stack-induced-AC when the game was over.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, deanox said:

It's an interesting debate in fast bowling too. Restricting loads to protect from injury might be doing more harm than good according to some.

Exactly. To me it all comes back to Bradman saying the best preparation for playing cricket was playing cricket. This aligns somewhat with Burgess saying the footies would be out from Day 1 and it seems every day - that the best preparation for playing football is playing football?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems pretty simple doesn't it - practice executing your skills as much as possible so that it can be repeated under fatigue/pressure/expectation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.  Fantastic.  What a brilliant interview.  So pleased he is in the red and the blue!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes a lot of sense. The list will be trained to play Football, something that has been overlooked by all clubs for a while now. 
G Lyon got the answer he was after. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a brilliant interview. I could seriously listen to Burgo all day with his knowledge unlike the bland and boring Dave Misson..

Also did anyone hear say that Braydon Pruess has drop a remarkable 8 kilos!? Amazing effort from the big fella.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Wunders said:

I've always thought that the plank isn't that good of an exercise as the ability to consciously contract the muscles is poor after a short (20/30seconds). As a result the plank very quickly starts challenging tissues of the body it shouldn't be (ligaments etc) rather than the muscles of the core. I much prefer the idea of 10x 30sec planks with like a 3second down reset and up phase. Just my random thoughts :)

Don’t necessarily disagree - I have NFI.

I just try to do everything the dude yells at me to do.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    BACK IN STYLE by Whispering Jack

    From the moment when the Elton John character in the movie “Rocketman” burst into its opening scene dressed as a flamboyant demon on his way to an addiction rehabilitation session, the game was on. Here was yet another film about a person gifted with a meteoric rise to stardom finding coke, booze and a hedonistic lifestyle that led directly to a destructive crash into the abyss. Ultimately, these stories end in total disaster (“A Star is Born”, “Bohemian Rhapsody”, “Judy”) but this one resulted

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2019

    PART ONE - OVERTURE  I have a disclaimer at the outset. I’m not a fan of the races - be they horses or motors of any kind. Once the final siren sounds on the football season, I find the month or so that follows and corresponds roughly with the Spring Racing Carnival to be the most boring time of the year for sports fans. You turn on the radio and you’re confronted by the monotonous drone of a self-proclaimed racing expert or by the nasally twang of an ex-jockey banging on about the equine p

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 8

    CHANGES 2019 by The Oracle

    PART 1 - IT’S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THIS TIME This year’s free agency, trade and draft period will see the usual drama and upheaval as the AFL’s 18 clubs seek to better their lists in order to challenge for finals and possibly premiership honours. Long before the final siren sounded on the season just over a week ago, the maneuvering was under way with player agents and clubs discussing possible player movements and in some cases, deals had already been done.  Yesterday, the r

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 1

    HOW FAR SOUTH? by George on the Outer

    It was appropriate that Melbourne was playing its last game of season 2019 in Hobart.  After all, how much further south could the team go? And much as it has done in many of the previous 22 games, the side managed to extract a loss from a winning position by simply giving the ball back to the opposition time and time again. In fact, they gave it back to the opposition to the tune of 53 points from turnovers while, by way of contrast North Melbourne contributed  only 17 points to their oppo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    COOKED by The Oracle

    I can vividly remember when the Demons ventured onto Blundstone Arena for the first time in early 2016 only to lose to the Kangaroos by 20.11.131 to 21.10.136.    Melbourne was then a team on the up and up: young, enthusiastic and bold. It gave up a huge quarter time deficit after kicking against a strong wind but made that up by half time and fell dramatically short after an exciting high scoring affair.  The team lost no fans that day - they were willing to take the game on and attac

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    HELP by KC rom Casey

    The Casey Demons finished off their home and away season against Frankston at Skybus Stadium on Sunday with a narrow, unconvincing 6-point victory that left the door slightly open for a top eight berth when the VFL finals begin in a fortnight’s time. While sunny skies prevailed over Frankston in the morning, the skies became overcast by noon and heavy waves pounded the bay nearby as the rains came in to greet the players as the game started. And conditions stayed dark and dreary for the rem

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THANKS BUT NO THANKS by George on the Outer

    Thanks, but no thanks! In a round where the club was supposed to thank their fans for the support during the year, the Melbourne Football Club chose to do otherwise with a 53 point loss to a team that sat 15th on the ladder.  Don’t give us cheap jumpers that can’t be sold in the Demon shop.  Don’t give us vouchers to shop there, give us something on the field, which is why we come to the football in the first place. It was a disgraceful performance, which started with a disgracefu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SLEEP OUT AT THE MCG by The Oracle

    Around about 12 months ago Melbourne and Sydney fought out an epic battle between two top eight teams fighting for the best possible ladder position in the lead up to the finals. The Swans triumphed by 9 points at the MCG after the Demons came back from five goals down at three quarter time. But for its poor kicking for goal, Melbourne might well have won the game and finished in the top four. Who knows what might then have happened for the club in September? As a consequence, the person re

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A LITTLE RAY OF SUNSHINE by KC from Casey

    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...