Darren Burgess on SEN (7/11/19)

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

8 hours ago, Older demon said:

Interested in his thought on the difference in training at Arsenal. Concedes soccer is less physical but their traing loads are higher and centre around pace, agility and speed of the mark. Fascinated that Robbie Graysons would be considered average for agility in premier league. I suspect the greater training for speed and take off may lower the number of hamstring injuries which is still the number 1 injury causing loss of game time.

Interestingly, at the gym yesterday, my instructor had a few of us do 3 one minute planks in the bottom section of a push up i.e. when your arms are bent and your chest is nearly on the ground and you have to hold that position for a minute. It’s pretty challenging.

Anyway - one of my mates was whinging about doing it again on the third rotation - to which the instructor then replied:

          - the fitness coach of the German soccer team which won the World Cup in 2014 required the entire squad do this for 20 minute intervals regularly - you need to do just one minute. Harden up.

I still can’t wrap my head around this. If this is true, I reckon Burgess’s Arsenal experience augurs very well for us. They are extremely fit dudes.

 

[Engorged Onion 9,229]

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

He did actually. Armstrong is famous for doing more training, and targeted training than most other pros of his era.

What do suppose allowed that to happen? 

[binman 37,763]

Terrific interview. Lyon and Watson obviously respect him. 

One take away is his comment about pre season surgery and rehab and the impact on fitness - you can never catch up in season.

Also interesting he noted that of the 18 post season surgeries 16 were to players in our best 22. 16. As guru bob might say. Think about that.

[monoccular 16,010]

7 hours ago, Lord Ivanhoe said:

Together with Dr Peter Brukner (world-renowned Australian sports medicine clinician and researcher)  What an awesome world leading Medical & sports science combo!

Spot on LI.

Absolutely no excuse for poor performances based on lack of fitness.  

[Superunknown 3,307]

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

FWIW, I'm also quite passionate about cycling, and one thing we've seen over the last decade is a move away from volume to intensity-based training (e.g. HIT training). It's what's key to training with power meters, and the recommendations that go with that.

Cyclist here too

if by intensity you mean metrics like TSS and look to things like CTL then yes it’s not just volume 

I know blokes who do 200-400km a week who can still have their bums kicked due to judicious training targeting FTP, w/kg etc etc 

[Superunknown 3,307]

54 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

What do suppose allowed that to happen? 

I’m no LA apologist (though I do love me some The Move) but a) most of them were on it so, ceterus paribus b) he still killed everyone with training profile 

[FarNorthernD 5,839]

5 hours ago, BW511 said:

I am quite passionate about cycling and have read some respected international level coaches who believe the volume is key, versus intensity.

This is to get people doing well in events ranging from 90mins full gas or 5-6 hours. It's also worth noting a guy that trains for the 100m sprint still does an absolutel mountain of hours of running throughtout the year for a 9-10 second event.

AFL players do very little training compared to many high level international sports, but we have the added variable of body impact/collision which requires management during the week.

Yes Compared to swimmers, and I imagine cyclists, footballers get off fairly lightly. Even State level swimmers will be doing 9 sessions a week plus weight sessions. The National level ones more.
Of course they don’t have to crash into a 90kg blokes running at them from any angle

[Demons1858 1,657]

7 hours ago, binman said:

I have wondered the same tging, but i think you are exactly right. They rolled the dice with the possible reward a flag.

As the doggies and tigers showed you need to take your chance if it presents. 

The right move I reckon.

Not sure how we can be compared to Rich and the Doggies. Neither of those teams carried injured players through their season. In fact the bulldogs in particular relied on feverish team/system pressure with young players coming in for 1st games playing on enthusiasm and knowing their roles.

[Pates 9,536]

I don’t like using the surgeries and injuries as an excuse, Richmond, Sydney, Geelong, WC etc have been backing up multiple years of finals. What I will say is it’s folly to dismiss it completely as a strong contributing factor. My worry has been that the club will look to the injuries and just say “oh well we’ll be back next year with better player fitness”. 

2020 shapes as a massively important year for the club, a good time to get someone with Burgess’s credentials on board. 

[Demons1858 1,657]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Which players would you have pulled out of 2018 on route to a prelim purely because they needed end of season surgery?

Harmes, Hunt, Oliver, Petracca all were fine for 2019. Taking out Jetta? Taking out Tommy Mc or Melksham? Really pulling out Viney who finally got a chance at finals? Or Hannan and his match sealing goal. 

We had too many self inflicted injuries at the start of 2019 and didn’t manage post surgery guys back to form and fitness. But  there’s no way we should’ve rested guys. Imagine if the Dogs did that in 2016?

If Burgess tells us around 17 players needed post season ops / rehab after 2018, I'm pretty sure at least half of them would have been carrying those injuries from early in the season and didn't just get injured at seasons end. That being the case mfc had the option to treat players (with ops and longer rehabs) earlier in the season and have them back in time for finals and the next season. Below are some examples of players that re-injured and should have been given proper rehab and ops earlier in the season so they were back in time for finals and 2019 (and these are just the ones I can recall):

* McDonalds injuries started in the 2018 preseason and then again in May 2018

* Viney's troublesome foot flared on multiple occasions

* Hannan had persistent knee injuries throughout 2018

* Melksham carried an ankle injury through out 2018 and had repeat hamstring injuries

* Hunt twice injured his ancle in june and again in august 2018

These players all had leg injuries. Players can carry shoulder injuries and still do the running to get themselves up for the following season, but its leg injuries that cost you the following year and we should have better at managing them early in the 2018 season so they were back for finals and 2019.

[binman 37,763]

7 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Not sure how we can be compared to Rich and the Doggies. Neither of those teams carried injured players through their season. In fact the bulldogs in particular relied on feverish team/system pressure with young players coming in for 1st games playing on enthusiasm and knowing their roles.

Wotcha talkin abour willis?

One, I meant that the doggies flag and the tigers 2017 flag was unexpected and they grabbed the chance when the stars aligned. I wasn't saying anything about any injuries they may or may not have been carrying.

But secondly even if I was making a point about injury - which I wasn't- both clubs struggled the next year, particularly the doggies, who like us in 2018  were a very yoing team. And Ilike us the doggies struggled with fitness.

[Demons1858 1,657]

6 minutes ago, binman said:

Wotcha talkin abour willis?

One, I meant that the doggies flag and the tigers 2017 flag was unexpected and they grabbed the chance when the stars aligned. I wasn't saying anything about any injuries they may or may not have been carrying.

But secondly even if I was making a point about injury - which I wasn't- both clubs struggled the next year, particularly the doggies, who like us in 2018  were a very yoing team. And Ilike us the doggies struggled with fitness.

Hey Binman, your response to was to Deespencer's post that made reference to the doggies premiership in the context of not resting players due to injuries. So its fair to assume if you agree with that statement then that is how you also feel. Will take it that that's not actually what you meant though ... sorry for any confusion

[binman 37,763]

27 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Hey Binman, your response to was to Deespencer's post that made reference to the doggies premiership in the context of not resting players due to injuries. So its fair to assume if you agree with that statement then that is how you also feel. Will take it that that's not actually what you meant though ... sorry for any confusion

No. My response was to paulrb's post about rolling the dice to try and win a flag and that not putting players out for surgery was understandable given the potential reward. Which I agreed wirh.

And for what it's worth I also agree with deespencer's post on this topic. If you have a chance at a flag, which we did, you our off any surgeries that can be put off till season's end. Ill bet london to a brick tbst every team thst had won a flag in tbe last 50 years has done so with at least l one player.

Edited November 7, 2019 by binman

[Demonsone 1,593]

 “It’s 97 per cent skill (in soccer) and the outcome of the game of soccer is determined by skill, very rarely by fitness. The fitness team is never going to win the competition”

Perhaps  afl clubs focussed too much on the running/fitness ... 

 

[PaulRB 5,897]

9 hours ago, binman said:

No. My response was to paulrb's post about rolling the dice to try and win a flag and that not putting players out for surgery was understandable given the potential reward. Which I agreed wirh.

And for what it's worth I also agree with deespencer's post on this topic. If you have a chance at a flag, which we did, you our off any surgeries that can be put off till season's end. Ill bet london to a brick tbst every team thst had won a flag in tbe last 50 years has done so with at least l one player.

It’s also looking at the decisions of 2018 (I.e. not putting players to surgery during season so we can make finals) in the context of what happened in 2017, where we missed finals by the smallest margin in the history of the game... 

Only the MFC can dish this stuff up. But our time is coming! 
Go Demons

[deanox 8,515]

16 hours ago, BW511 said:

I am quite passionate about cycling and have read some respected international level coaches who believe the volume is key, versus intensity.

This is to get people doing well in events ranging from 90mins full gas or 5-6 hours. It's also worth noting a guy that trains for the 100m sprint still does an absolutel mountain of hours of running throughtout the year for a 9-10 second event.

AFL players do very little training compared to many high level international sports, but we have the added variable of body impact/collision which requires management during the week.

It's an interesting debate in fast bowling too. Restricting loads to protect from injury might be doing more harm than good according to some.

[Wunders 385]

13 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Interestingly, at the gym yesterday, my instructor had a few of us do 3 one minute planks in the bottom section of a push up i.e. when your arms are bent and your chest is nearly on the ground and you have to hold that position for a minute. It’s pretty challenging.

Anyway - one of my mates was whinging about doing it again on the third rotation - to which the instructor then replied:

          - the fitness coach of the German soccer team which won the World Cup in 2014 required the entire squad do this for 20 minute intervals regularly - you need to do just one minute. Harden up.

I still can’t wrap my head around this. If this is true, I reckon Burgess’s Arsenal experience augurs very well for us. They are extremely fit dudes.

 

I've always thought that the plank isn't that good of an exercise as the ability to consciously contract the muscles is poor after a short (20/30seconds). As a result the plank very quickly starts challenging tissues of the body it shouldn't be (ligaments etc) rather than the muscles of the core. I much prefer the idea of 10x 30sec planks with like a 3second down reset and up phase. Just my random thoughts

[BW511 2,236]

15 hours ago, bing181 said:

FWIW, I'm also quite passionate about cycling, and one thing we've seen over the last decade is a move away from volume to intensity-based training (e.g. HIT training). It's what's key to training with power meters, and the recommendations that go with that.

This is absolutely true, but the pros still do a mountain of volume. A good friend of mine rides in the world tour (has won multiple grand tour stages) and made a change in his training 3-4 years ago which has benefited him greatly. He dropped from 5-6 hours a day to 3-4. That's still 20+ hours a week of training not inclusive of pilates, gym etc.

For your weekend warrior, there is a lot of gains to be made from High Intensity, particularly when they are time crunched.

[TGR 1,367]

15 hours ago, DubDee said:

We haven’t had a fitness bloke with this sort of hype since Misson. 

My thoughts exactly.

 

If Paul Roos was here, he would be saying " the stuff that the players do at the clubs across-the-board varies slightly.  The big discrepancy is what the players do in their huge time away from the club".

 

From my end, nothing really changes until the decision-maker(s) (regarding players getting sent back out after injury onset) changes.  Brukner for example is great at what he does, but that becomes insignificant if you have:

(a) a desperate coaching box ordering injured players back on the park.

(b) a head-strong player (Viney) wagging the dog and insisting that he comes back early from foot surgery; or that he gets back on with his stack-induced-AC when the game was over.

 

[Clintosaurus 6,410]

2 hours ago, deanox said:

It's an interesting debate in fast bowling too. Restricting loads to protect from injury might be doing more harm than good according to some.

Exactly. To me it all comes back to Bradman saying the best preparation for playing cricket was playing cricket. This aligns somewhat with Burgess saying the footies would be out from Day 1 and it seems every day - that the best preparation for playing football is playing football?

[BW511 2,236]

It seems pretty simple doesn't it - practice executing your skills as much as possible so that it can be repeated under fatigue/pressure/expectation.

[buck_nekkid 5,458]

Wow.  Fantastic.  What a brilliant interview.  So pleased he is in the red and the blue!

[Sir Why You Little 34,407]

Makes a lot of sense. The list will be trained to play Football, something that has been overlooked by all clubs for a while now. 
G Lyon got the answer he was after. 

[dazzledavey36 48,642]

What a brilliant interview. I could seriously listen to Burgo all day with his knowledge unlike the bland and boring Dave Misson..

Also did anyone hear say that Braydon Pruess has drop a remarkable 8 kilos!? Amazing effort from the big fella.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

8 hours ago, Wunders said:

I've always thought that the plank isn't that good of an exercise as the ability to consciously contract the muscles is poor after a short (20/30seconds). As a result the plank very quickly starts challenging tissues of the body it shouldn't be (ligaments etc) rather than the muscles of the core. I much prefer the idea of 10x 30sec planks with like a 3second down reset and up phase. Just my random thoughts

Don’t necessarily disagree - I have NFI.

I just try to do everything the dude yells at me to do.