Cornes Staggered By Dees Decisions

[dazzledavey36 48,705]

He's wrong about Harmes. But he's right about Lever.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Getting May and Lever to the club made perfect sense at the time. And IMO it still does.

We arguably paid too much, but in good faith we seemingly paid what we had to in order to secure the trades.

Hardly crazy stuff Chad - in fact, it’s possible that it’s the opposite of crazy, i.e. it was just purely pragmatic trading to attempt to improve our list.

 

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

1 hour ago, Deestar9 said:

May trade ...shocker??? Interesting to hear why...hmmmm

Because we could have one of the brightest young talents in the game on our list (Ben King)  instead of a 28 year old defender who played half a season for us

[hemingway 7,589]

Cornes and his ilk are simply part of the footy talk industry. They are paid to provide opinions. They construct these opinion pieces on the back of a theme or a few issues. An exercise in creative writing nothing more.

Footy talk is just a microcosm of the media at large. Turn on any electronic device and news programs have become a cacophony of talking heads all voicing and shouting opinions, no different than the boys in the pub. 

Their opinions are no more valid than any supporter or footy fan. And they are only contracted because they are ex-players not because they are more intelligent, or better informed or have more insight than the bloke in the pub. In most cases they are less intelligent and have less insight than the bloke in the pub. 

Comments are made to create a reaction and stir up discussion. And the businesses that engages these bods demand comments and articles that provoke. And the agent provocateur usually can achieve that simple aim. It’s not hard given the insatiable appetite that the mob has for this crap. And we are part of the mob. Reacting, commenting, becoming outraged with people and issues that we should ignore. 

Cornes is second rate let’s face it. And that is probably being kind. 

As Ron stated earlier, the decision to recruit May and Lever were good decisions at the time. No one criticised the decisions at the time, indeed it was the opposite. We had become a destination club.  Other clubs were chasing them and presumably  were prepared to pay big coin. They were recruited for strategic reasons as part of a plan. The fact that they have spent most of the time on the sidelines does not make the decision to recruit them poor. But so much opinion is based on hindsight, which is stock in trade for Cornes and the footy scribes (never call them experts). 

The Harmes deal is arguable but there is no doubt that if he has another good season other clubs would have gone after him. There is not a contract negotiated that is without risk. 

My only criticism is the Frost decision and that is debatable. In short, there are differing opinions. With Frost only time will tell. 

[Sorry kids 635]

Good summary Hemingway. However regarding the May deal, who I like as a player. It seemed we had the pick six from Hogan in our pocket for about 10 seconds before we made a play for May. What cornes alludes to, probably without knowing it is that there were other options in the draft to getting May. Perhaps re King we were influenced by Weeds breakout finals series of that year and that could have caused little thought to be given to recruiting King. We will never know but from now some members will forever watch how May/King progress in their careers,

[dazzledavey36 48,705]

8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's wrong about Harmes. But he's right about Lever.

Sorry I should clarify that I agree with Cornes in terms of how much we gave him. It was too way much.

I like Lever as a player and the leadership he brings to the club.

[Thehardtackler 785]

Sometimes you have to give up a lot in a trade to get in players who will transform a culture. Goodwin was a great team man at Adelaide. He has decided that May and Lever bring those qualities too, which is why MFC gave up so much to get them. 

[Cranky Franky 1,483]

15 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

Cornes is certainly trying to elevate his standing amongst the radio industry but some of what he says has meaning......whether you like him or not!

In my opinion Lever appears to be an outstanding person but currently overpaid, IMO & thus far under-delivered. May the same.....

Harmes good on him getting a an extra 4 years which ties him to the club for another 5 years, but really 3 would have been appropriate I reckon.

Time will tell if Cornes has over-reacted or a good call.....

 

The first intelligent comment on this issue.  Demonlanders seem to have lost their ability to think critically & everything the management does gets greeted with loud applause.  5 years is a ridiculous deal for a good solid player.  Only Gawn & maybe Oliver would be worthy of such a deal.  Over long contracts is how Clubs get themselves into trouble - form & injury can mean a drop off very quickly. 

[sue 8,417]

27 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

The first intelligent comment on this issue.  Demonlanders seem to have lost their ability to think critically & everything the management does gets greeted with loud applause.  5 years is a ridiculous deal for a good solid player.  Only Gawn & maybe Oliver would be worthy of such a deal.  Over long contracts is how Clubs get themselves into trouble - form & injury can mean a drop off very quickly. 

"& everything the management does gets greeted with loud applause. "

I must be reading a different forum - seems to me it's the other way around. 

While we are all entitled to speculate and pontificate on this forum, none of us really know the factors that went into this decision.  Only time will tell.

[pitmaster 3,059]

Cornes overstates his case. He makes it sound like May and Lever have finished their careers. Those deals can't be deemed fails for some time yet. But that's how you make a career in the footy media if you're not a professional, with selective reasoning and cherry picked facts.

Edited November 1, 2019 by pitmaster

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

The 2020 Season will answer the Cornes question. 
All 3 mentioned players must have quality seasons in 2020

I am not a fan of 5 year deals either, but i have always thought Harmes is a gun. 
Lever and May have talent, but we have to see it consistently 

[D4Life 2,299]

All of the deals need to be judged over the next 4-5 years.

Harmes has been top 5 in B&F last two years and played some great games on top opposition players, worth locking in!

May looks pretty good when he was on the field, a real presence, let’s see what he does over the next 3-4 years.

Unfortunately Lever was just coming good when he went down against the Dogs in 2018, hopefully after a solid preseason he has a good 2020.

But time will tell on all these deals, it’s too early to call them failures! Corne’s just going for headlines.  

[Supermercado 2,609]

19 hours ago, Demonland said:

Cornes believes that in hindsight, the Demons would want to take the Steven May trade back.“

What would you rather have? An unfit Steven May who can’t get out on the park and is 28, or would you rather have one of the brightest key forward prospects in the game in Ben King at pick six,” he said.

I know SEN would be deader than Macquarie Sports Radio without website clickbait, but does this goofball honestly think we were going to trade Hogan for pick 6 then take it to the draft? Have some dignity Kane.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Supermercado

[Redleg 37,555]

32 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

I know SEN would be deader than Macquarie Sports Radio without website clickbait, but does this goofball honestly think we were going to trade Hogan for pick 6 then take it to the draft? Have some dignity Kane.

Agree. Bombers were offered 5 & 9 for Joe despite what was publicly said by them and Swans gave up when a star player had to be included. Bombers wanted a star player and top picks for Joe. We clearly identified May and to a lesser extent KK for part of the Hogan deal and if Jane doesn’t understand that, his problem.

[Tony Tea 2,786]

I'm sure Melbourne gave Harmes' contract no thought at all, and simply plucked a number out of a hat.

Unlike Kane, who has all the info on the Demons' inner workings. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,126]

FYI Kane, some coaches votes from a couple of back to back dead rubber games in late 2018:

MELBOURNE v GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
9 James Harmes (MELB)
8 Angus Brayshaw (MELB)
7 Max Gawn (MELB)
2 Christian Petracca (MELB)
2 Christian Salem (MELB)
1 Stephen Coniglio (GWS)
1 Tom McDonald (MELB)

 

 

MELBOURNE v GEELONG
9 Sam Weideman (MELB)
8 James Harmes (MELB)
4 Clayton Oliver (MELB)
4 Max Gawn (MELB)
3 Tom McDonald (MELB)
2 Angus Brayshaw (MELB)

And to Buckenara who considered one of the Wagners a better player than Harmes…..

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

The May and Lever deals are easy to knock with the benefit of hindsight.  In Lever we paid for a fit player, his ACL was plain bad luck and injuries happen.

As for May we definitely have overpaid.  We paid for a quality player, a club captain and supposed leader.  We have not got what we paid for and both player and club need to take responsibility for that.  May was clearly afforded too much trust over the off season.

In retrospect there is no way we make those 2 deals.

The Harmes deal on the surface seems unnecessarily lengthy, that is unless you see a player that has a high ceiling, is about to hit his prime and carries greater value than the simple sum of his on field contribution. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Stretch Johnson

[Demonstone 19,084]

11 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

In retrospect there is no way we make those 2 deals.

Premature speculation IMO.  Let's give them a few seasons before we write them off.

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

Just now, demonstone said:

Premature speculation IMO.  Let's give them a few seasons before we write them off.

No speculation required, as it stands now we don't make those deals. No chance.

 

[Gorgoroth 12,308]

I think 5 years isn’t smart either, Harmes is a good player but I don’t think more than 4 max should have been given.

But you back the club on these matters and move on.

[Mental Demons 136]

1 hour ago, Stretch Johnson said:

The Harmes deal on the surface seems unnecessarily lengthy, that is unless you see a player that has a high ceiling, is about to hit his prime and carries greater value than the simple sum of his on field contribution. 

The Harmes deal is testament to the hard work and loyalty that the player has put in. If he plays out the contract and he shows no sign of being fragile, it could well be great value for money for what his type of player is worth in 5 years. I think Harmes would be a great choice of captain because he came up through the ranks and earned his place. There is no need to put extra leadership pressure on Max, he already has a high media profile and mumbles his opinion at every chance anyway, he is already a leader on the field. I am sure that May will not play out his contract and is on much more money. Leaver is younger and will be better value. The May-KK deal is very poor list management. 

[JV7 2,339]

This is the same nuffie who was froffing us all last pre season & was his premiership tip... Move on

Edited November 2, 2019 by JV7

[Forest Demon 4,681]

He says he is staggered by moves “this year”, then talks about Lever and May. The only decision he mentions from this year is Harmes. 5 years did seem a bit long, but he is probably the most reliable player on our list, so it’s hardly “staggering”. If he’s on 800k or something like that, then maybe, but obviously that wouldn’t be the case.

[Marty 419]

No one can possibly judge this a good or bad contract when you have no idea what’s in the contract other than the length of it. 
The only facts we have;

-4 year contract.

-“Was a no brainer, growing up a Melbourne supporter” James Harmes quote

-obviously was never going anywhere 

-would be the 1 in a million person who turns up to work and says “just living the dream” and actually means it.

[chookrat 3,776]

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

FYI Kane, some coaches votes from a couple of back to back dead rubber games in late 2018:

MELBOURNE v GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
9 James Harmes (MELB)
8 Angus Brayshaw (MELB)
7 Max Gawn (MELB)
2 Christian Petracca (MELB)
2 Christian Salem (MELB)
1 Stephen Coniglio (GWS)
1 Tom McDonald (MELB)

 

 

MELBOURNE v GEELONG
9 Sam Weideman (MELB)
8 James Harmes (MELB)
4 Clayton Oliver (MELB)
4 Max Gawn (MELB)
3 Tom McDonald (MELB)
2 Angus Brayshaw (MELB)

And to Buckenara who considered one of the Wagners a better player than Harmes…..

 

 

Also worth noting in these matches Harmes was nullifying their best payers while getting 30+ touches and kicking goals. Harmes is a weapon, ultra consistent, is versatile up forward, is an elite tagger, great on ball, and this year was very tidy playing off half back.