Jump to content

Lord Nev

WELCOME TO DEMONLAND - LUKE JACKSON

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not drafting Jackson because we have Bradtke is about the equivalent of not drafting Hogan because we had Jack Fitzpatrick. Irrelevant.

Plenty of valid reasons not to draft a ruck with a high pick and that they take time is one of the most valid ones but Jackson is one of the best performed players in this draft crop, he's not in the same postcode as Bradtke who by definition couldn't play footy for years to qualify as Cat B.

As I recall Grundy was drafted about pick 18, why would we draft someone with fewer skills at picks 3 to 9. Get a grip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Hobson said:

As I recall Grundy was drafted about pick 18, why would we draft someone with fewer skills at picks 3 to 9. Get a grip.

Because if you had that draft again Grundy would go pick 1 or maybe pick 2 after Whitfield.

He has: O'Rourke, Plowman, Toumpas, Mayes, Menzel, Jaksch, Corr, Garner, Thurlow, Simpson and everyone after pick 18 clearly covered.

You can make an argument for Macrae, Wines, Stringer, Vlastuin I guess but it's Grundy right?

If you think Jackson is even remotely similar to Grundy then he has to be in the conversation for at least pick 8. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Because if you had that draft again Grundy would go pick 1 or maybe pick 2 after Whitfield.

He has: O'Rourke, Plowman, Toumpas, Mayes, Menzel, Jaksch, Corr, Garner, Thurlow, Simpson and everyone after pick 18 clearly covered.

You can make an argument for Macrae, Wines, Stringer, Vlastuin I guess but it's Grundy right?

If you think Jackson is even remotely similar to Grundy then he has to be in the conversation for at least pick 8. 

I remember at the time he was considered a top 5 talent, but slipped way out. Even at the time they were saying that the Pies got a steal.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've admittedly only seen bits and pieces of highlights, but he doesn't do anything for me at the pointy end of the draft. I think there are better players who will fill bigger gaps than Jackson will. 

If we had a pick in the mid to late teens then I could see us taking him, but in the top ten? Nah. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I've admittedly only seen bits and pieces of highlights, but he doesn't do anything for me at the pointy end of the draft. I think there are better players who will fill bigger gaps than Jackson will. 

If we had a pick in the mid to late teens then I could see us taking him, but in the top ten? Nah. 

Well said. Jackson is raw. An athlete.  Grundy has the footy pedigree and even then slipped to 18.  I think there are plenty of other top quality players at 3 and 8.  Ruck is not a problem area for us. Don’t forget our success with interstate players. On top of all that, the future “Go home” is a negative factor. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Dees247 said:

I remember at the time he was considered a top 5 talent, but slipped way out. Even at the time they were saying that the Pies got a steal.

There were a few that ranked Grundy the second best player in the pool.

Key difference b/n Grundy and Jackson in their draft year is exposure and runs on the board. Grundy showed plenty as a 17 year old and then backed it up in his top age year, including good performances for Sturt’s senior team and dominating at the Champs.

Jackson’s recent conversion to the AFL pathway means there’s not a lot of prior performance and he’s only shown a fraction of what Grundy had at the same time. Also, he got better as the season wore on and some his best performances came off broadway at WAFL reserves level post champs. I think those performances really elevated his standing, but most of us haven’t seen those games.

I watch a fair amount of junior footy, but I am confident that I haven’t seen enough of Jackson to make a judgement on whether we should pick him as high as 3.

Edited by ChaserJ
  • Like 10
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Well said. Jackson is raw. An athlete.  Grundy has the footy pedigree and even then slipped to 18.  I think there are plenty of other top quality players at 3 and 8.  Ruck is not a problem area for us. Don’t forget our success with interstate players. On top of all that, the future “Go home” is a negative factor. 

I don’t disagree with the assessment, but Grundy is the cautionary tale here.  He was rated top three for most of his U18 year, but slid to 18 because ‘You don’t take a ruckman early in the draft’.  If clubs had the 2012 draft over again, they’d snap up Grundy quick smart.

Not to say that Jackson is or will be as good, but the aversion to taking rucks early cost everyone a multiple all Australian ruckman who everyone knew could play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Well said. Jackson is raw. An athlete.  Grundy has the footy pedigree and even then slipped to 18.  I think there are plenty of other top quality players at 3 and 8.  Ruck is not a problem area for us. Don’t forget our success with interstate players. On top of all that, the future “Go home” is a negative factor. 

There's a lack of refinement to his skills but I don't think Jackson is as raw as people think, the stats and the way he plays looks like a footballer. Nic Nat, Stef Martin and Grundy are still unrefined at times, doesn't hurt their value.

And it's hard to disagree about the ruck not being a need with Gawn right now but I'm looking at the current Melbourne side and I see a lot of needs and not a lot of strengths. Maybe we'd be well served to lean in to the ruck as a real strength and have 120 minutes of quality in there. We need to add more run and skill but we're unlikely to ever beat Richmond playing open fast footy. Stoppages, contested ball, own the aerial contests might be our best game plan.

Gawn also works his backside off to break even at ground level against the more mobile rucks, I'm not sure how much longer he'll be able to do it at a high level for 100 minutes a game. He tore his hammy tendon chasing a midfielder a couple of years ago, as he gets towards 30 he's going to struggle in the centre square. Gawn with heavier slower inside mids isn't a great centre bounce combination. How often do you see Gawn chasing a mid from the centre or a handball go to him flat footed which forces him to lob an ineffective kick forward. Adding a mobile ruck to do a share of the centre bounce work would help Max do what he does best - control games as an around the ground force.

Interstate players? We burnt a decade of young talent no matter where they came from, I don't think we can be concerned about that. Same with the go home factor. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's a lack of refinement to his skills but I don't think Jackson is as raw as people think, the stats and the way he plays looks like a footballer. Nic Nat, Stef Martin and Grundy are still unrefined at times, doesn't hurt their value.

And it's hard to disagree about the ruck not being a need with Gawn right now but I'm looking at the current Melbourne side and I see a lot of needs and not a lot of strengths. Maybe we'd be well served to lean in to the ruck as a real strength and have 120 minutes of quality in there. We need to add more run and skill but we're unlikely to ever beat Richmond playing open fast footy. Stoppages, contested ball, own the aerial contests might be our best game plan.

Gawn also works his backside off to break even at ground level against the more mobile rucks, I'm not sure how much longer he'll be able to do it at a high level for 100 minutes a game. He tore his hammy tendon chasing a midfielder a couple of years ago, as he gets towards 30 he's going to struggle in the centre square. Gawn with heavier slower inside mids isn't a great centre bounce combination. How often do you see Gawn chasing a mid from the centre or a handball go to him flat footed which forces him to lob an ineffective kick forward. Adding a mobile ruck to do a share of the centre bounce work would help Max do what he does best - control games as an around the ground force.

Interstate players? We burnt a decade of young talent no matter where they came from, I don't think we can be concerned about that. Same with the go home factor. 

I think your point is valid DS up to a point. Most young ruckmen take 3 or more years to develop to a point where they could be worthy of consistent AFL game time, and Max could well be retired by then. Even Grundy took a few years before his stats improved.  Under your scenario, if we want someone to assist Max over the next 3 years, then we need a ready made ruckman now. That’s not to say Jackson won’t be a good player. I have no idea on that. But it won’t be for about 3 years hence if he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see what changes if we put Jackson in the forward line. I can see what could happen to forward line delivery  if we drafted Young.

  • Like 9
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Deebacle said:

I don't see what changes if we put Jackson in the forward line. I can see what could happen to forward line delivery  if we drafted Young.

Shrewd Deebacle. I like your thinking.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not worth #3, probably not #8. Not tall enough as a ruckman and not showing enough as a forward.

  • Like 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think your point is valid DS up to a point. Most young ruckmen take 3 or more years to develop to a point where they could be worthy of consistent AFL game time, and Max could well be retired by then. Even Grundy took a few years before his stats improved.  Under your scenario, if we want someone to assist Max over the next 3 years, then we need a ready made ruckman now. That’s not to say Jackson won’t be a good player. I have no idea on that. But it won’t be for about 3 years hence if he is.

Nic Nat 10 games in year 1, 22 in year 2. 

Grundy 7 games in year 1 including a final as the number 1 ruck. 15 games in year 2.

With Burgess and a maturing midfield group including Tomlinson and Langdon on the wings the idea would be to play Jackson something like 65% game time, 35% forward, 30% ruck from very early in his career. That’s enough to ease the load over the next 2 years before really extending Max when he’s 30+

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Because if you had that draft again Grundy would go pick 1 or maybe pick 2 after Whitfield.

He has: O'Rourke, Plowman, Toumpas, Mayes, Menzel, Jaksch, Corr, Garner, Thurlow, Simpson and everyone after pick 18 clearly covered.

You can make an argument for Macrae, Wines, Stringer, Vlastuin I guess but it's Grundy right?

If you think Jackson is even remotely similar to Grundy then he has to be in the conversation for at least pick 8. 

May be more like Hogan equivalent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i remember in grundy's year i wanted us to draft him at 4, but alas he slid and slid and he's now a $1m+ player and the, ahem, second best ruckman in the competition

if jackson is as good as some pundits believe then he'll go higher than grundy's pick 18 or english's pick 19

i'd still prefer young and kemp / serong / ash, but could understand why they might go a mid-sized player and a tall at 3 and 8...that's even if we finish with 3 and 8 by the time our selections come around

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We have Gawn and they have uncovered their next ruckman in O’Brien, surely not 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watching his highlights, Jackson twice spins around and through opponents, something most players aren’t exactly capable of, let alone other ruckmen. That is exceptional athleticism and talent.

I’m more than happy to take Jackson at 3.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, adonski said:

We have Gawn and they have uncovered their next ruckman in O’Brien, surely not 

If that is referring to Reilly O'Brien it is legit - he filled in when Jacobs was injured early this season.  He became their no 1 ruckman playing 18 games and Jacobs 5.  It is the reason the traded Jacobs out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If that is referring to Reilly O'Brien it is legit - he filled in when Jacobs was injured early this season.  He became their no 1 ruckman playing 18 games and Jacobs 5.  It is the reason the traded Jacobs out.

Yeah that's what I meant, surely neither club would pickup a ruckman with pick 3/4? We're both sorted 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, adonski said:

Yeah that's what I meant, surely neither club would pickup a ruckman with pick 3/4? We're both sorted 

Ruckman take at least 3-4 years to perform. Max will be retired or close to by then, he's about to to turn 28. Are you happy for Preuss to be our no 1 in 3 years? Or Bradke?

Not saying we should take him at 3, but it's crazy to think we are sorted long term in the ruck. Certainly he's in at mix at 8, but likely taken by then

Edited by Moonshadow
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, adonski said:

Yeah that's what I meant, surely neither club would pickup a ruckman with pick 3/4? We're both sorted 

They may want him to back up O'Brien and replace Jenkins and Tex who is way past is best.  As might we for Gawn/TomMc/Weideman.

 

As an aside, Adelaide have pick 4 and if Freo want Jackson it is more incentive for them to trade 7 and 10 for our 3 and maybe something back.  We can get that 'something' by splitting pick 8.  GCS are wanting to trade (pick 15 and 20) for a top 10 pick so we could give one of those back to Freo.  We get 7,10 and 15 or 20.  Freo get Jackson and 15 or 20 which they can use on Henry. 

Pick 20 is actually very valuable as it is the 1st pick after round 1 and clubs will be going for it if their preferred player isn't picked in the first round.  It is what Carlton did last year to get Stocker. 

Edit:  I haven't tried to match the draft points of the pick trade Freo/MFC/GCS as I think the picks (esp 3 and 20) have intrinsic value over and above the theoretical points.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    BACK IN STYLE by Whispering Jack

    From the moment when the Elton John character in the movie “Rocketman” burst into its opening scene dressed as a flamboyant demon on his way to an addiction rehabilitation session, the game was on. Here was yet another film about a person gifted with a meteoric rise to stardom finding coke, booze and a hedonistic lifestyle that led directly to a destructive crash into the abyss. Ultimately, these stories end in total disaster (“A Star is Born”, “Bohemian Rhapsody”, “Judy”) but this one resulted

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2019

    PART ONE - OVERTURE  I have a disclaimer at the outset. I’m not a fan of the races - be they horses or motors of any kind. Once the final siren sounds on the football season, I find the month or so that follows and corresponds roughly with the Spring Racing Carnival to be the most boring time of the year for sports fans. You turn on the radio and you’re confronted by the monotonous drone of a self-proclaimed racing expert or by the nasally twang of an ex-jockey banging on about the equine p

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 8

    CHANGES 2019 by The Oracle

    PART 1 - IT’S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THIS TIME This year’s free agency, trade and draft period will see the usual drama and upheaval as the AFL’s 18 clubs seek to better their lists in order to challenge for finals and possibly premiership honours. Long before the final siren sounded on the season just over a week ago, the maneuvering was under way with player agents and clubs discussing possible player movements and in some cases, deals had already been done.  Yesterday, the r

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 2

    HOW FAR SOUTH? by George on the Outer

    It was appropriate that Melbourne was playing its last game of season 2019 in Hobart.  After all, how much further south could the team go? And much as it has done in many of the previous 22 games, the side managed to extract a loss from a winning position by simply giving the ball back to the opposition time and time again. In fact, they gave it back to the opposition to the tune of 53 points from turnovers while, by way of contrast North Melbourne contributed  only 17 points to their oppo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    COOKED by The Oracle

    I can vividly remember when the Demons ventured onto Blundstone Arena for the first time in early 2016 only to lose to the Kangaroos by 20.11.131 to 21.10.136.    Melbourne was then a team on the up and up: young, enthusiastic and bold. It gave up a huge quarter time deficit after kicking against a strong wind but made that up by half time and fell dramatically short after an exciting high scoring affair.  The team lost no fans that day - they were willing to take the game on and attac

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    HELP by KC rom Casey

    The Casey Demons finished off their home and away season against Frankston at Skybus Stadium on Sunday with a narrow, unconvincing 6-point victory that left the door slightly open for a top eight berth when the VFL finals begin in a fortnight’s time. While sunny skies prevailed over Frankston in the morning, the skies became overcast by noon and heavy waves pounded the bay nearby as the rains came in to greet the players as the game started. And conditions stayed dark and dreary for the rem

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THANKS BUT NO THANKS by George on the Outer

    Thanks, but no thanks! In a round where the club was supposed to thank their fans for the support during the year, the Melbourne Football Club chose to do otherwise with a 53 point loss to a team that sat 15th on the ladder.  Don’t give us cheap jumpers that can’t be sold in the Demon shop.  Don’t give us vouchers to shop there, give us something on the field, which is why we come to the football in the first place. It was a disgraceful performance, which started with a disgracefu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SLEEP OUT AT THE MCG by The Oracle

    Around about 12 months ago Melbourne and Sydney fought out an epic battle between two top eight teams fighting for the best possible ladder position in the lead up to the finals. The Swans triumphed by 9 points at the MCG after the Demons came back from five goals down at three quarter time. But for its poor kicking for goal, Melbourne might well have won the game and finished in the top four. Who knows what might then have happened for the club in September? As a consequence, the person re

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A LITTLE RAY OF SUNSHINE by KC from Casey

    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...