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Buckenara: Dees List Overrated

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4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Buckernara is spot on except for James Harmes

Gawn for Sole Captaincy

I think he is probably close as well.

A lot seem to forget we finished second last this year 2018 is long gone history.

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8 minutes ago, old dee said:

I think he is probably close as well.

A lot seem to forget we finished second last this year 2018 is long gone history.

2018 means absolutely nothing now. As of now we are a Cellar dweller 

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Bucky has  somehow larked onto what is presumably a reasonably lucrative gig as the Hun's list and recruiting guru in an age when sport is pretty much what sells papers and views.  Adds a bout as much value as Joey Montagna on the FF Draft show. 

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1 hour ago, old dee said:

So he is total incorrect because he spelt someones name wrong!

If you don't agree with his summation fine but get us reasons not that clap trap.

 

If I'm taking the time to go through a detailed analysis of a teams list there's no way I'm spelling a name like Neal-Bullen wrong. He's played 73 games, he's not an insignificant player. 

I actually agree our list is overrated, that's how you drop off and win 5 games in a season, but there's nothing insightful about how he came to that conclusion and spelling a name wrong is an obvious reflection of that. 

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1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

If I'm taking the time to go through a detailed analysis of a teams list there's no way I'm spelling a name like Neal-Bullen wrong. He's played 73 games, he's not an insignificant player. 

I actually agree our list is overrated, that's how you drop off and win 5 games in a season, but there's nothing insightful about how he came to that conclusion and spelling a name wrong is an obvious reflection of that. 

Good reply but I still think it is tough to ignore his opinion because of one spelling mistake.

i guess the real difference between us is you think his opinion is inaccurate and I think it is close to the mark.

 

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12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

If I'm taking the time to go through a detailed analysis of a teams list there's no way I'm spelling a name like Neal-Bullen wrong. He's played 73 games, he's not an insignificant player. 

I actually agree our list is overrated, that's how you drop off and win 5 games in a season, but there's nothing insightful about how he came to that conclusion and spelling a name wrong is an obvious reflection of that. 

1 spelling mistake does not ruin an article

Learn from it. Our Leadership is woeful

Take it on board...

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A (elite): Max Gawn, Clayton Oliver

B+ (nearly elite): Steven May, Christian Petracca, Tom McDonald

B (solid): Christian Salem, Jack Viney, James Harmes, Bayley Fritsch, Jake Melksham

B- (potentially solid, need to bounce back): Angus Brayshaw, Neville Jetta, Jake Lever

C+ (role players with occasional quality): Sam Frost, Jayden Hunt, Marty Hore, Michael Hibberd

C (role players) : Corey Wagner, Nathan Jones, Alex Neal-Bullen, Mitch Hannan

C- (sub par role players): Jay Kennedy-Harris, Braydon Preuss, Josh Wagner, Billy Stretch, Oscar McDonald

Injured* (quality unknown): Kade Kolodjashnij, Aaron Vandenberg, Joel Smith

Developing*: Sam Weideman,

Developing: Charlie Spargo, Oskar Baker, Harrison Petty, James Jordan, Tom Sparrow, Toby Bedford, Aaron Nietschke, Austin Bradtke, Kade Chandler

Edited by DeeSpencer
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11 minutes ago, old dee said:

Good reply but I still think it is tough to ignore his opinion because of one spelling mistake.

i guess the real difference between us is you think his opinion is inaccurate and I think it is close to the mark.

 

I think his opinion is fine but I also think you could've come to the same opinion by watching 10 minutes of most Melbourne games this season. I also think a list analysis before the trade period and without providing any opinion on the first and second year players is a waste of time.

It annoys me that the Herald Sun have a huge footy budget and don't spend any of it or anyone who can provide something of quality.

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I think we would have a better idea on the first & second year players ' @DeeSpencer '...

Personal opinion is I only see Jordon, Sparrow & Petty as the chances to make it and that's probably not a bad hit rate given where we had the picks.

The other kid we haven't seen yet is Nietschke so the jury is out on him until we see some game time.

Edited by rjay
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16 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

A (elite): Max Gawn, Clayton Oliver

B+ (nearly elite): Stephen May, Christian Petracca, Tom McDonald

B (solid): Christian Salem, Jack Viney, James Harmes, Bayley Fritsch, Jake Melksham

B- (potentially solid, need to bounce back): Angus Brayshaw, Neville Jetta, Jake Lever

C+ (role players with occasional quality): Sam Frost, Jayden Hunt, Marty Hore, Michael Hibberd

C (role players) : Corey Wagner, Nathan Jones, Alex Neal-Bullen, Mitch Hannan

C- (sub par role players): Jay Kennedy-Harris, Braydon Preuss, Josh Wagner, Billy Stretch, Oscar McDonald

Injured* (quality unknown): Kade Kolodjashnij, Aaron Vandenberg, Joel Smith

Developing*: Sam Weideman,

Developing: Charlie Spargo, Oskar Baker, Harrison Petty, James Jordan, Tom Sparrow, Toby Bedford, Aaron Nietschke, Austin Bradtke, Kade Chandler

Good on you for having a go, hasn't been many willing

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3 hours ago, Collar-Jazz-Knee said:

 

I'm fairly sure this time last year Buckenara was praising our list.... it's very easy to just write things based on one season.

This.

He definitely said we had one of the best lists after the trade period last year (while many dees supporters were acutely aware of the holes in the list he's now pointing out). He was one of the very people overrating the list!

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20 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think his opinion is fine but I also think you could've come to the same opinion by watching 10 minutes of most Melbourne games this season. I also think a list analysis before the trade period and without providing any opinion on the first and second year players is a waste of time.

It annoys me that the Herald Sun have a huge footy budget and don't spend any of it or anyone who can provide something of quality.

Interesting point. Watching 10 minutes of our Season or watching the entirety, one comes to the same conclusion. 

That says it all. Communication Breakdowns, players plateaued or went backwards for whatever reason. The above review is still a fairly accurate look at or state of affairs compared to other Clubs. 

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10 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think we would have a better idea on the first & second year players ' @DeeSpencer '...

Personal opinion is I only see Jordon, Sparrow & Petty as the chances to make it and that's probably not a bad hit rate given where we had the picks.

The other kid we haven't seen yet is Nietschke so the jury is out on him until we see some game time.

If we are to improve next year then I think Petty either plays as a serviceable tall either back or forward or Oscar or Weideman beat him out and show they are at least C+ types.

Same thing goes for Jordon, Sparrow and I'd add Spargo - all 2nd rounders who have enough of something to get games as flankers if they aren't busts. Spargo's played in 2 winning finals after all. We are the masters of 2nd year blues so maybe we know how to fix it too! At least 1 of these guys can do something next year surely!

Lockhart should already be included as a C/C- type, he's certainly no worse than the other half forwards. Unless he has no tank at all I'd never pick Corey Wagner over him.

I still have some confidence in Oskar Baker. He hasn't done a proper preseason coming from the NEAFL and then missing all of last summer with hamstring rehab. He's very one dimensional but that one dimension - grab the ball, run, kick with penetration - can be enough if he can do it 10 times a game and not stuff up the rest of the time. I'd probably say he's 20-30% chance of making it but with development coaching and Burgess magic that could be higher. The way he moved (in attacking) from stoppages and hit some kicks was AFL standard. Some of our best footy in 2019 came when he was finding the ball.

And I know you aren't a fan but I'm a believer in Kade Chandler as well. If we are to bounce back he's the exact type of unknown player that good teams find and develop quickly. Not a star but the tackling and quick on to the ball enough to do a job.

It's hardly an inspiring group of players but our drafts in 15/16 were all top picks, mature agers or busts. I think we've forgot what it's like to develop players like Jayden Hunt or James Harmes who take a while but then come on quickly in years 3/4/5.

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6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Interesting point. Watching 10 minutes of our Season or watching the entirety, one comes to the same conclusion. 

That says it all. Communication Breakdowns, players plateaued or went backwards for whatever reason. The above review is still a fairly accurate look at or state of affairs compared to other Clubs. 

Good points .

Another way is looking at our performances against the various non finalists. Other than Tom Mac and his outing against Freo(?) it's hard to recall any player "ripping" it apart as you would expect  a better player to do against the lesser teams. Our few wins were mainly "team performances" which while gratifying don't help individual ranking

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1 minute ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Good points .

Another way is looking at our performances against the various non finalists. Other than Tom Mac and his outing against Freo(?) it's hard to recall any player "ripping" it apart as you would expect  a better player to do against the lesser teams. Our few wins were mainly "team performances" which while gratifying don't help individual ranking

Yep nobody stood out (Max was great) but nobody on our list ripped a game apart, not even one quarter...

that is what suprised and gutted me. I thought the boys would be mentally ready in 2019 for redemption after being humiliated in Perth. 

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In June in 2016, Buckenara said the Dees were the closest team outside the 8.

Cool Story Gary, you such an expert that no team wants you involved in list management anymore.

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33 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Good on you for having a go, hasn't been many willing

I'd already like to drop all of the C players down a level and drop Hibberd from C+ to C.

But I feel very confident about the B graders (maybe a little shaky on Melky who might be a B- if his defensive game doesn't lift next year). But there isn't a team in the comp who couldn't find room for Salem, Fritsch and Harmes. Langdon fits in on this level and Tomlinson is hopefully a B- not a C+. 

Getting up to 15/16 B- or above players supported by some handy C+ guys is how we made and won finals. Obviously we've had a few drop off but we should be able to replace them.

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Lol. He was the one overrating them last off season. Can't believe someone keeps paying him for his opinion. Changes like the wind.

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1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

A (elite): Max Gawn, Clayton Oliver

B+ (nearly elite): Steven May, Christian Petracca, Tom McDonald

B (solid): Christian Salem, Jack Viney, James Harmes, Bayley Fritsch, Jake Melksham

B- (potentially solid, need to bounce back): Angus Brayshaw, Neville Jetta, Jake Lever

C+ (role players with occasional quality): Sam Frost, Jayden Hunt, Marty Hore, Michael Hibberd

C (role players) : Corey Wagner, Nathan Jones, Alex Neal-Bullen, Mitch Hannan

C- (sub par role players): Jay Kennedy-Harris, Braydon Preuss, Josh Wagner, Billy Stretch, Oscar McDonald

Injured* (quality unknown): Kade Kolodjashnij, Aaron Vandenberg, Joel Smith

Developing*: Sam Weideman,

Developing: Charlie Spargo, Oskar Baker, Harrison Petty, James Jordan, Tom Sparrow, Toby Bedford, Aaron Nietschke, Austin Bradtke, Kade Chandler

Very close

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19 minutes ago, A F said:

Changes like the wind.

2018 is old news. His rating was for 2019

The guy knows the game. Whorethorn were just as evil in the 80’s as they are now. 

The MFC needs more media scrutiny, not scornful responses

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49 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

But I feel very confident about the B graders (maybe a little shaky on Melky who might be a B- if his defensive game doesn't lift next year). But there isn't a team in the comp who couldn't find room for Salem, Fritsch and Harmes. Langdon fits in on this level and Tomlinson is hopefully a B- not a C+. 

I am not so sure about the other teams fitting them in, but I can see where you are coming from.

One thing I always notice is we are never the target of raids from other clubs at this time of year (Hogan the exception)

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