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Why are the Saints so attractive?


Lefty
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42 minutes ago, pewpewpew said:

The Saints have to play hard ball re: Hill because they can’t give up 2 first round picks (even though they’ve shot themselves in the foot with their contract offer). They’re going to need the 2020 first round and 2021 first round pick to get King from the Suns next year. They can’t keep Bruce this year because they can’t offer him more than 1 year because King will be taking his position in 2021.

 

I’m not so sure - I think Ben will want to get to the saints, but they won’t have the assets to trade for him without significantly weakening themselves in other areas.

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Interesting to compare the teams:

Langdon v Hill:  600-700k pa v 900k, 2nd round pick v at least pick 12 and a fair bit more. Hill's the better player but Langdon's the better value I'd suggest

Tomlinson v Z Jones/losing Jack Steven: Both guys who should give you 22 serviceable games for a few years. Saints need more inside help and grunt like Jones, we needed more of an outside spread player. I prefer Jones, but it's a case of keeping the 2nd or early 3rd round pick when you get a free agent. The counter to that is the Saints are shipping Steven out to create the pick and room for Jones - or at least that's what the plan might be. 

Losing Frost v losing Bruce: Probably like this for the Saints more because they have Max King ready to go and are bringing in Ryder for cheap depth where as we are possibly turning to Oscar.

Pick 3 v Dougal Howard: I like Howard and he won't cost the saints pick 3, most likely 18 will form the basis of that trade. We could end up bringing in a player like Howard (solid, high upside) next year after either using pick 3 or splitting the pick this year

staying put v Butler/S Gray/Ryder: All depends on how our later draft picks and players on our list go. Probably prefer the Saints approach here to make sure they've filled holes. For some reason we've kept all our depth in place rather than chased replacements.

I probably prefer the Saints moves more, but they'll also be left with their best players coming from a group of: Gresham, Billings, Max King (+/- his brother), Brad Hill, Marshall, Carlisle, Hunter Clark maybe without a lot of room to add players unless they get lucky. If we get it right at the top of the draft and add another young star then we might have a brighter collection of top talent and more room to work with to fix the gaps.

We will bought in Lever and May the Saints were hitting the draft, now they are paying up for Brad Hill whilst we should draft some high end talent.

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6 hours ago, daisycutter said:

my post re linton st was sarcasm :)

Yes i figured there was a bit of that DC.  What i wrote i meant though.  I reckon the club needs to move ASAP on a HQ option outside CBD, assuming there's no suitable option for an appropriate  Gosch's construction.

If that falls over there are simply no viable CBD or stone's throw alternatives.  All been exhausted or way out of our league / unrealistic.

If Pert isn't driving this in a serious fashion behind the scenes (and i'm not saying he isn't) then one has to ask ..."why isn't he?".

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24 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Yes i figured there was a bit of that DC.  What i wrote i meant though.  I reckon the club needs to move ASAP on a HQ option outside CBD, assuming there's no suitable option for an appropriate  Gosch's construction.

If that falls over there are simply no viable CBD or stone's throw alternatives.  All been exhausted or way out of our league / unrealistic.

If Pert isn't driving this in a serious fashion behind the scenes (and i'm not saying he isn't) then one has to ask ..."why isn't he?".

Needs to be the main point of discussion come this years AGM.

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32 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Yes i figured there was a bit of that DC.  What i wrote i meant though.  I reckon the club needs to move ASAP on a HQ option outside CBD, assuming there's no suitable option for an appropriate  Gosch's construction.

If that falls over there are simply no viable CBD or stone's throw alternatives.  All been exhausted or way out of our league / unrealistic.

If Pert isn't driving this in a serious fashion behind the scenes (and i'm not saying he isn't) then one has to ask ..."why isn't he?".

agree a new hq for us is a top priority

however, i think what we have at gosch's/aami (for the FD) is still better than what the aints have at the tired old linton st. facility. there again the aints do have the attraction of st. kilda school girls.

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On 10/9/2019 at 6:45 PM, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Doubtful. Every club has to pay 95% of max cap space. Players they’re offloading in Newnes and Acres would be on silly amounts of dollars methinks

Newnes is a restricted free agent which means he was in their top quarter of contract dollars this year.

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1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Needs to be the main point of discussion come this years AGM.

Agree.  One of the major points certainly.  I can't recall but rather than double up with the same or very similar 'significant' points of concern as multiple 'repeat' questions on the evening, has anyone spoken of putting together a list of X number of points to be raised via a DL nominated representative?  Say Andy, Jack or Nasher?

Just putting it out there.  Start a thread and maybe put a series of the most reasonable / popular questions to be tabled.  Nail those down to roughly a dozen or so....then vote to come up with say the top 6 questions we would like to see tabled.  That's assuming the member's forum is allowing something like that to occur on the evening.  This would ensure the main concerns get tabled and hopefully answered on the evening and those that may not be able to make it, (potentially) get to have a say via their vote on here.

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10 hours ago, Demonland said:

How are they going to get all this done?

 

The other thing about St Kilda's strategy here is if they don't land say 2 of those guys that have nominated them, how can they possibly say to anyone they're trying to lure next year, that they'll definitely get the deal done? 

@Macca what do you think of St Kilda's strategy here? I'm keen to know because you're a big advocate of known talent versus the draft lottery. 

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9 hours ago, Demonland said:

Exactly. It's not just the ones they need to bring in by dealing with multiple clubs they have to unload a few to other clubs too. 

It's going to be a busy few days for them. 

Can we get in on a trade for Gresham? Has that little bit of x factor that would suit our forward line. Has stagnated a bit in my view. Maybe a second rounder this year and a future 3rd or 4th to give them picks.

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18 minutes ago, A F said:

The other thing about St Kilda's strategy here is if they don't land say 2 of those guys that have nominated them, how can they possibly say to anyone they're trying to lure next year, that they'll definitely get the deal done? 

@Macca what do you think of St Kilda's strategy here? I'm keen to know because you're a big advocate of known talent versus the draft lottery. 

Go for it I say but you've got to have bartering tools.  In other words,  there are limits unless the talent is being offloaded and comes cheap

And we're talking about talent AF.  There's a big difference between elite talent,  difference makers,  B graders and role players.

And list fillers.  900 players in the system and probably close to half are either not really good enough or not ready. 350+ is my estimation.

For the AFL it's great ... young blokes all over Australia know they've got a real chance at being a professional sportsman.  But for us supporters who just want their teams to win,  there are too many C & D graders in the system.

12 teams would work better but that would cost the sport itself.  We're stuck with what we've got.

The coaching needs to be stepped up right across the board though.  Too much 'managing' and not nearly enough emphasis on actual skills.  We should know.

 

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45 minutes ago, Macca said:

Go for it I say but you've got have bartering tools.  In other words,  there are limits unless the talent is being offloaded and comes cheap

And we're talking about talent AF.  There's a big difference between elite talent,  difference makers,  B graders and role players.

And list fillers.  900 players in the system and probably close to half are either not really good enough or not ready. 350+ is my estimation.

For the AFL it's great ... young blokes all over Australia know they've got a real chance at being a professional sportsman.  But for us supporters who just want their teams to win,  there are too many C & D graders in the system.

12 teams would work better but that would cost the sport itself.  We're stuck with what we've got.

The coaching needs to be stepped up right across the board though.  Too much 'managing' and not nearly enough emphasis on actual skills.  We should know.

 

I'm a big advocate for systems. Of course, the perfect mix is solid system and great skill, but given the stretching of the talent pool that you describe above, there is just not enough talent to give every team 22 solid citizens. Get your system right and with a few stars, you can set up a dynasty (without a particular focus on everyone being highly skilled). Richmond are showing this now. This is the modern game IMO.

I agree with your strategy, but it has to be complimented by a strong system and a club can build that system over one pre season, but to sustain it (see the Bulldogs as a good example) is really difficult.

Completely agree with your initial point too. St Kilda don't have the chips this year to play with. Monday-Wednesday this week is actually going to be fascinating for once, because I reckon they're a bit stuffed.

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Just now, A F said:

I'm a big advocate for systems. I coach a few sports at junior levels and use similar systems in all the sports. Of course the perfect mix is solid system and great skill, but given the stretching of the talent pool that you describe above, there is just not enough talent to give every team 22 solid citizens. Get your system right and with a few stars, you can set up a dynasty (without a particular focus on everyone being highly skilled). Richmond are showing this now. This is the modern game IMO.

I agree with your strategy, but it has to be complimented by a strong system and a club can build that system over one pre season, but to sustain it (see the Bulldogs as a good example) is really difficult.

Completely agree with your initial point too. St Kilda don't have the chips this year to play with. Monday-Wednesday this week is actually going to be fascinating for once, because I reckon they're a bit stuffed.

And there can't be 18 Richmond's because of the talent pool.  As an example,  we couldn't possibly replicate Richmond with our current list. 

But with an injection of real talent from the talent pool,  we can get there.  But again,  the talent pool dictates all. 

We're in the mix but we've got a long way to go.  Systems can work well but only with proper levels of talent.  And some would argue that you build your system around the talent that you've got.

And then fine-tune as the talent levels increase.  Do what you do,  do well (and all that)

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2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Needs to be the main point of discussion come this years AGM.

I reckon you can put the house on a statement being made just before the AGM DD.

It will either way take that subject off the question list.

My experience of attending AGM over the last 20 years is the board engineers that there few if any problems to discuss. There have been a couple of exceptions but that is the way it usually rolls.

Add that MFC members who attend are an affable lot who tend to swallow the company line.

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5 minutes ago, old dee said:

Add that MFC members who attend are an affable lot who tend to swallow the company line.

A few years ago now, but one night back in 1996 we weren't overly affable.

I dare say there will be a fair few disgruntled members voicing their concerns if a new HQ hasn't been settled upon come the AGM @old dee

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54 minutes ago, A F said:

Can we get in on a trade for Gresham? Has that little bit of x factor that would suit our forward line. Has stagnated a bit in my view. Maybe a second rounder this year and a future 3rd or 4th to give them picks.

I think that is a little unders!

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