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Farewell Sam Frost

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52 minutes ago, Yokozuna said:

Sorry if this has been asked or answered, but I am currently out of the country, but did someone from the actual football club state that they rate Omac higher than Frost?

i would have to assume that someone did, as having read some of the comments above, people keep complaining that the football department do!

 

They did not but don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story 

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54 minutes ago, Yokozuna said:

Sorry if this has been asked or answered, but I am currently out of the country, but did someone from the actual football club state that they rate Omac higher than Frost?

i would have to assume that someone did, as having read some of the comments above, people keep complaining that the football department do!

 

No. Omac has a contract for 2020. Frost doesn't. End of story.

 

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2 hours ago, deanox said:

Oscar is a zone player, not a one on one defender. With May and Lever firing he'll play his role as third defender just fine. Not great, nor elite but capable. He rarely costs us unless we ask him to play outside of his capabilities/ strengths. 

 

Frost constantly ruined our "connection". His spectacular runs cause all others to get caught out of position. He costs us because his strengths don't suit our plan. 

 

Frost isn't good enough for us to change our game plan for,  so if he won't adapt, he goes. 

You may well be spot on nox, and i hope you are, because it’s what we are stuck with. I just find it hard to understand how someone can play so badly and be retained in a very important position, whereas someone who is prepared to take the game on, is shown the door 🚪 

it is the exact opposite to my thinking. 

Omac looked completely lost in all scenarios in 2019 to me

His B&F rating is not lying...

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You may well be spot on nox, and i hope you are, because it’s what we are stuck with. I just find it hard to understand how someone can play so badly and be retained in a very important position, whereas someone who is prepared to take the game on, is shown the door 🚪 

it is the exact opposite to my thinking. 

Omac looked completely lost in all scenarios in 2019 to me

His B&F rating is not lying...

Omac is signed until the end of 2020 and probably for a lot less than Frost is asking. He was 'retained' a few years back

Edited by John Demonic

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Just now, John Demonic said:

Omac is signed until the end of 2020 and probably for a lot less than Frost is asking.

Yes I understand all that. Doesn’t mean Omac deserves a Senior game though. 

We are almost 2 players down if Frost goes. 

Frost is shown the door and Jones gets another contract, when the game has past him by...

big risks in 2020

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8 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frawley had an AA year with us.

Hasn't got anywhere near that level for Hawthorn.

It's just a furphy. Aside from Burgoyne and O'Meara who are completely different cases due to their injuries, the Hawks target players to play to their system rather than 'turn them into' stars. 

Honestly if Frost ends up leaving, you can bet your bottom dollar that Clarkson will give him even less of a license to run up the field being a headless chook.

I think we've got to look at what we'll net as a result of losing Frost because the possibilities are many.

If we're lucky enough to receive a second-round pick, it could help us with the Langdon trade or package up with pick 3 to move up the order or many other possibilities. We're in a good spot and his value is at an all time high this year.

He's really no big loss. None of the top end teams have a completely polarising player in their back half who consistently makes the same skill and decision making errors over and over.

You can guarantee replace Ross Lyon (Clarko) and Zac Dawson (Frosty)

Play tight off the shoulder, spoil in the air at all times in a contest and only ever dispose by handball. Your roll in this defence is to negate not to create

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1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes I understand all that. Doesn’t mean Omac deserves a Senior game though. 

We are almost 2 players down if Frost goes. 

Frost is shown the door and Jones gets another contract, when the game has past him by...

big risks in 2020

Come on, mate. You'd get a go at the local comedy show with this material. 

First Frost was a superstar, now he's the equivalent of two players? Are you trolling or just using a bit of good old fashioned Demonland hyperbole? 

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From what Mahoney said we haven't even actually offered him a contract. Good luck trying to keep may and lever on the park. Now Hunt's the only player on our list with genuine speed. 

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6 minutes ago, TheoX said:

Now Hunt's the only player on our list with genuine speed. 

If we could recruit Sam Murray, he'd probably know how to get his hands on some.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

If he does command $650k at Hawthorn ... the flip side is that he is worth a second round pick albeit a late one .

There's no way he would be on that sort of money DJ.  Not even close in my opinion.  A couple of days on and ...

I prefer the Occam's Razor explanation.  Frost probably just wanted to switch clubs and as for the contract offer we gave him or what he might have been demanding,  I'm not sure it's absolutely relevent if he'd made up his mind to go. 

Frawley,  Dunn,  Howe,  Sylvia (RIP),  Stef Martin and a few others were looking for the door (or were getting the nudge) so we did the deals.

The loss of Frost shouldn't be looked at in isolation either.  It's the sum of all the parts after all the trading and after the draft where we can then make our evaluations. 

I just hope the club doesn't leave itself too short up forward and too short down back.  And we need an injection of pace & skill through the middle and down back.

We really need some dash out of defence and none of the likely candidates possess a great deal of pace.  Where we've played quick in the past (2018 mainly) is when we've moved the ball quickly with decent skills.  Hopefully that aspect returns as well.

Time will tell.

Edited by Macca

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2 hours ago, binman said:

No. Omac has a contract for 2020. Frost doesn't. End of story.

 

WHAT A FRIIGEN DEESCRACE!!

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2 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Omac is signed until the end of 2020 and probably for a lot less than Frost is asking. He was 'retained' a few years back

So Oscar wanted a No Name plain cracker and Frost wanted an Iced Vo Vo ?? 

Awww Sheeeit that explains everything!!

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5 hours ago, deanox said:

Oscar is a zone player, not a one on one defender. With May and Lever firing he'll play his role as third defender just fine. Not great, nor elite but capable. He rarely costs us unless we ask him to play outside of his capabilities/ strengths. 

 

Frost constantly ruined our "connection". His spectacular runs cause all others to get caught out of position. He costs us because his strengths don't suit our plan. 

 

Frost isn't good enough for us to change our game plan for,  so if he won't adapt, he goes. 

Correct his erratic play looks great when he has the ball but it ruins our structures and catches our players out if position particularly when a) he misses a target and b) causes a turnover leaving our defenders out of position (as they are in "attack" mode) leading to an easy opposition score

Frost has great closing speed and is good one on one but his negatives mean it would be stupid of the club to contemplate paying above market value for a player of his type.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Correct his erratic play looks great when he has the ball but it ruins our structures

This year we were almost completely unstructured.  Right across the board

And every one of our good players was either down on form,  well down on form,  or in some cases injured.  Gawn was good but he lacked influence.  Oliver had a B- season.  Etc etc

Our senior players and better players let us down.  Again.

Edited by Macca

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20 minutes ago, picket fence said:

So Oscar wanted a No Name plain cracker and Frost wanted an Iced Vo Vo ?? 

Awww Sheeeit that explains everything!!

Iced vo vos r a gr8 biscuit probably my favourite. But Frost wasn't & if he wants more iced vo vos than we r prepared to give than he can go 2 the Hawks & eat all the vo vos he wants. We will as Gloria Gaynor sang survive.

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20 minutes ago, Macca said:

What are these 'Structures' you talk about Gonzo?

This year we were almost completely unstructured.  Right across the board

And every one of our good players was either down on form,  well down on form,  or in some cases injured.  Gawn was good but he lacked influence.  Oliver had a B- season.  Etc etc

Our senior players and better players let us down.  Again.

I refuse to let them off the hook.  In fact,  if the right trades came along,  I'd be moving a few of them on.

Did you catch Lewis' comments at the B & F?

 

Yeah I did a veiled swipe, we were abysmal from Coaching, to leadership on the ground to playing style!

We were CARP! 

I take your piont!!

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1 hour ago, picket fence said:

So Oscar wanted a No Name plain cracker and Frost wanted an Iced Vo Vo ?? 

Awww Sheeeit that explains everything!!

Explains you've eaten too many biscuits in your time.

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9 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yeah I did a veiled swipe, we were abysmal from Coaching, to leadership on the ground to playing style!

We were CARP! 

I take your point!!

As you well know,  the better players win you the games.  The lesser-lights can't be expected to do the same. 

What we really need is for May & Lever to have stellar seasons next year.  They need to dominate.  If that happens the lesser-lights can shine.  And if Petty comes on then the issue with the 2nd tall back is addressed.  Oscar as pure back-up unless he improves a lot.

But then there is our forward line hey?  Even bigger problems at that end of the ground. I'm still holding out hope that we recruit a KPF.  But we've heard very little. 

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4 hours ago, TheoX said:

From what Mahoney said we haven't even actually offered him a contract. Good luck trying to keep may and lever on the park. Now Hunt's the only player on our list with genuine speed. 

Oskar Baker, Steven May, Joel Smith, Jake Melksham?

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8 minutes ago, wizardinoz said:

Question: What other club would Omac get a game at?

Answer: None.

In a salary cap league he'd be a back up tall defender at a few clubs...

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So 46 pages of comment varying from he's a hack to he's the saviour. Mahoney's interview offered some clarity

Frosty doesn't want to leave MFC but has not been offered a contract yet. There is a contract on the table but it hasn't been offered (Mahoney's own words). The club has said he can explore his options with their blessing. Why? Well, Sam well he is out of contract and the club deems we have an excess of back men. So at the moment, as we have seen in other draft periods players are left out on a limb to ponder their fate.

The options are Sam goes to another club on an equal or better contract and some of us, me included, will be sad.
Next, the planned import of players from elsewhere falls through and MFC say, Sam we always loved you, come home all is forgiven. Interesting scenario because all all the Frost haters go into meltdown on Demonland.
Another option is that no-one wants to offer a tall, quick, key back a contract and MFC say goodbye as well and Sam finds himself interstate or in a local league. The latter is highly unlikely but it has happened to footballers before. He could find himself player at his old school Wesley in the ammo's.

There is a lot of events that need to align before we see the final outcome.

 

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Posted (edited)

Just because some don’t believe that Frosty is the second coming of Bruce “the flying doormat” Doull, doesn’t make us “Frost haters” as some hysterically suggest. 

Edited by PaulRB
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13 hours ago, Macca said:

This year we were almost completely unstructured.  Right across the board

And every one of our good players was either down on form,  well down on form,  or in some cases injured.  Gawn was good but he lacked influence.  Oliver had a B- season.  Etc etc

Our senior players and better players let us down.  Again.

Of course and that's why we finished 17th. Trying to move on one of these players who did all of the above while playing at his ceiling is a good move. Gawn, Oliver etc have shown they are better than what they produced in 2019. For Frost that was his best.

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