Farewell Sam Frost

[Binmans PA 25,885]

41 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

True but he would still have a huge load of suitors. Has shown he can do it on the big stage. And players like that fully developed cost $1m pa

Eh, Tom Boyd, Mitch Morton etc.

Weids might have had one or two sniffing around last year, but no more. And after this year, the jury is still out.

Edited September 19, 2019 by A F

[Cards13 9,117]

13 minutes ago, loges said:

I think it's actually you that thinks the club is a joke.

In a lot of ways they have been and are, but interested to know how you get that from my comment about opposing clubs thinking we’re a joke.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

29 minutes ago, A F said:

Eh, Tom Boyd, Mitch Morton etc.

Weids might have had one or two sniffing around last year, but no more. And after this year, the jury is still out.

Which is a shame, really.  Did he peak a little too soon, and the pressure and expectation were too much for him last season?

I still see plenty of potential in him, and hopefully a full pre-season both on the track and in the weights room have him primed to become the player we know he has the potential to be.

[Binmans PA 25,885]

43 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Which is a shame, really.  Did he peak a little too soon, and the pressure and expectation were too much for him last season?

I still see plenty of potential in him, and hopefully a full pre-season both on the track and in the weights room have him primed to become the player we know he has the potential to be.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think we should try trading him, but outside of the Geelong final and patches in the Hawthorn final, he's struggled. And that's okay, but I wouldn't say he's peaked. I'd say he's been slow to develop when compared to a Charlie Curnow, but could still be a good player in a year or two, in line with many other emerging KPFs.

Edited September 19, 2019 by A F

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, A F said:

Don't get me wrong. I don't think we should try trading him, but outside of the Geelong final and patches in the Hawthorn final, he's struggled. And that's okay, but I wouldn't he's peaked. I'd say he's been slow to develop when compared to a Charlie Curnow, but could still be a good player in a year or two, in line with many other emerging KPFs.

Agree with all of that.

Peaked was probably the wrong word - it was probably more about dominating a game, in a setting such as a final, before he was mentally and physically ready to do so.  That doesn't make sense written out like that, but he had such a great game against the Cats and then backed it up well against the Hawks that most expected him to kick on in a big way in 2019, but he never got going.  Possibly the expectation weighed on him a little and he just wasn't ready to handle it.

[Binmans PA 25,885]

39 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Agree with all of that.

Peaked was probably the wrong word - it was probably more about dominating a game, in a setting such as a final, before he was mentally and physically ready to do so.  That doesn't make sense written out like that, but he had such a great game against the Cats and then backed it up well against the Hawks that most expected him to kick on in a big way in 2019, but he never got going.  Possibly the expectation weighed on him a little and he just wasn't ready to handle it.

Yep, fair enough.

It may sound like revisionism now, but I was slightly hopeful he'd continue to grow in 2019. I certainly didn't expect him to rip games apart this year.

[Brownie 5,118]

2 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Frosty went up a lot in my respect levels this year, he never gave up, when clearly a few others had and i really admire that, its clear he has his deficiencies but he kept backing up each week.

The reality is though he isn't a  great ball user and a great decision maker, 2 key areas you need to be pretty good at in the back half. He is a great mark, great rebounder, but does not have a great football brain and that cost us on more than a few times. 

 The problem is we are caught in between paying big (overs) for Lever and also have May on big money and both have shown a propensity to get injured..  do we maintain him for cover, can he play in the back line with lever and May? if they go down, its O-mac and Petty.. god help us.

Tough one and whats he realistically going to get us, is it a second round pick because he has currency? or a player swap, does Frost for Mason Wood work.. its a really intriguing situation and wont be solved for a while i imagine.

I think there's a couple of key things that think we'd be mad to let him go.

- speed. The games getting faster. Jetta, may and Oscar aren't. He has great closing speed and breaks the lines. 

- size. Who do we have besides and injury prone May to use on the big forwards? Oh that's right, let's crunch Nev.

- improvement. He has consistently improved from being a ball watcher to being more accountable.  People keep bagging his disposal but if you watch the second half of this year, you can see he is now stopping and using the short kicks much more and being more accurate.

- effort. Something that was lacking at the tail end by quite a few others. He keeps putting in. He has the right attitude.

- durability. Nev is getting on, May and Lever are a bit shaky. Do we really want to risk losing one of our best backmen at the moment. He's stayed pretty fit throughout.

We are going to regret letting him go.

[loges 5,992]

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

In a lot of ways they have been and are, but interested to know how you get that from my comment about opposing clubs thinking we’re a joke.

Don't know why you would post such a thing unless it actually mirrors your own opinion. Laughing at us are they all the way out of the finals 2 years in a row. If roles were reversed and I heard Melbourne thought Hawthorn were a joke I'd be furious. Concentrate on winning first before you start disrespecting a club.. People say Melbourne get ahead of themselves FFS.

[58er 5,568]

On 9/17/2019 at 9:02 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

Wingers have to have more than just speed, they have to read the play very well so their in the right position to either create an outlet from defense, create the play going forward or block space to make the ball movement harder for the opposition. unfortunately while Frost has great pace, he's probably the worst in the league at reading the play, so he'd make a horrible wingman. He's played best as a 1 on 1 defender because he has someone besides him leading him to the ball. 

I'm guessing the Hawks inquired then looked at how he would fit in with the way they run their defenses and cooled off, while he's much more suited to the North style. That's why I also think we won't be giving him big money, May, Lever, Jetta and Hibberd work best in a zone defense, but you need to know how to read the play to make that work well.

Couldn't agree more 

[Cheap Seats 3,300]

8 hours ago, Superunknown said:

If I was frosty I’d be thinking so what’s the hold up? My contract is predicated on some other deals/inbound? Yeah, nah. See ya dees. He’d look good in a hawks strip

Maybe u should call his manager and get him to organise it.

Ask for 4% while you're there. You seem to be all over this negotiations stuff.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Unleash Hell

[Sorry kids 635]

Gary Lyon made perfect sense today. Frosty should just play to shut down his man, work on his kicking but keep things basic, dish off to others. If he breaks even or beats a big bodied forward that is a good win for us. As Hafey said to Sheedy when he tried the fancy stuff,' You are a bloody back pocket plumber from Richmond, that's what we want from you. Look at it this way. If he plays against us, who wins

Frost v Wiedemann

Frost v McDonald

Frost v Petty

[Demons11 6,404]

48 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Gary Lyon made perfect sense today. Frosty should just play to shut down his man, work on his kicking but keep things basic, dish off to others. If he breaks even or beats a big bodied forward that is a good win for us. As Hafey said to Sheedy when he tried the fancy stuff,' You are a bloody back pocket plumber from Richmond, that's what we want from you. Look at it this way. If he plays against us, who wins

Frost v Wiedemann

Frost v McDonald

Frost v Petty

He might win the one on one contests against Weed and Petty but at least once he gets it, he will kick it straight back to us 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Demons11

[BenJamin on Deesy St 792]

9 hours ago, AshleyH30 said:

I'm seeing a lot of people on here, and on social media acting like he's the god damn messiah. It's actually quite annoying how much people are pumping him up at the moment. That's also with the petition that's going around asking for Melbourne to re-sign him for what ever he wants. I believed he's peaked in his ability. 99 times out of a 100, a player doesn't improve once they reach 26 years old, it's usually the age where they peak.

Um, no.

Houli, Higgins, Hurn, Edwards, Ablett, L Jones, Hawkins, Burgoyne, K Simpson, R Henderson, Gawn and Betts immediately come to mind as players who improved - many of them quite a lot - after 26.

Then there’s a batch of >26-year-old current-day champions whose peaks seem to last forever! Like Pendlebury, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin and Sidebottom.

[Older demon 2,166]

There is 1 KPI not mentioned yet and it is often used when negotiating contracts. It is where you place in the Best & Fairest. When shipping off Watts it was always mentioned he never got in the top 10 at the B&F. MFC may be waiting till after the B&F and where Frosty finishes before offering a contract. Frosty was 8th in the Demonland player of the year and a similar result at the B&F would increase his worth.

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

1 hour ago, Sorry kids said:

Gary Lyon made perfect sense today. Frosty should just play to shut down his man, work on his kicking but keep things basic, dish off to others. If he breaks even or beats a big bodied forward that is a good win for us. As Hafey said to Sheedy when he tried the fancy stuff,' You are a bloody back pocket plumber from Richmond, that's what we want from you. Look at it this way. If he plays against us, who wins

Frost v Wiedemann

Frost v McDonald

Frost v Petty

Depends if he's standing 25 metres away in between his man and the ball! Happened a lot this year. Yes he's not a bad shut down player but we've played it best in the last 2 seasons with a zone defence, so a pure shut down role doesn't fit that model.

[spirit of norm smith 12,829]

4 hours ago, Brownie said:

I think there's a couple of key things that think we'd be mad to let him go.

- speed. The games getting faster. Jetta, may and Oscar aren't. He has great closing speed and breaks the lines. 

- size. Who do we have besides and injury prone May to use on the big forwards? Oh that's right, let's crunch Nev.

- improvement. He has consistently improved from being a ball watcher to being more accountable.  People keep bagging his disposal but if you watch the second half of this year, you can see he is now stopping and using the short kicks much more and being more accurate.

- effort. Something that was lacking at the tail end by quite a few others. He keeps putting in. He has the right attitude.

- durability. Nev is getting on, May and Lever are a bit shaky. Do we really want to risk losing one of our best backmen at the moment. He's stayed pretty fit throughout.

We are going to regret letting him go.

And he shut down big forwards that usually kill us. Walker, Hawkins, Brown, Franklin, Kennedy.  We would be MAD to let him go.  

Sign him up now. 

[DeeSpencer 23,051]

1 hour ago, Ben E said:

Um, no.

Houli, Higgins, Hurn, Edwards, Ablett, L Jones, Hawkins, Burgoyne, K Simpson, R Henderson, Gawn and Betts immediately come to mind as players who improved - many of them quite a lot - after 26.

Then there’s a batch of >26-year-old current-day champions whose peaks seem to last forever! Like Pendlebury, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Martin and Sidebottom.

Henderson and Jones were the only players from that list who weren't handy players before 26. There's guys who go up a level with a new side, new positions, injury luck, greater roles etc and Higgins is the best case for that but talent was never his issue. 

I'm not sure a guy like Frost who struggles with game sense and skills will drastically improve, he's had a consistent run of games and I assume there's not much left in his body to get better and I can't see him excelling in any other position. He could get slightly better in a few areas as he did this year and go from handy to better than handy but even if he went to the Hawks I'd be shocked if he was suddenly cured of the flaws in his game.

[PaulRB 5,897]

7 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

Easy to come to this conclusion because in my opinion, Frosty is the exactly the player we need & holding off with his contract is a mistake. He will go to another club, no question!  Wouldn't you?

May & Lever on $800k each & not considered in our best 1 or 2 backman this year.

Dumb.

Has Donald Trump taken up supporting the Dees...???

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:17 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Negativity again. It’s your ongoing moaning.  Look at the big picture.  He was one of the shining lights in a dismal disappointing year.  That’s not in doubt.  Yes he makes a turnover or two but his run and competitive streak are unquestionable. 

No, just a balanced view.

The big picture is that he is wildly inconsistent.

Have you wondered why he hasn't been offered a contract yet or?

[ignition. 1,413]

Losing Frost would be an enormous mistake. He continually locked down high-quality opposition forwards, he played his role and did it well. If Frost goes, key forwards will bury next year. If we need to remove a tall, start with Oscar McDonald.

[Binmans PA 25,885]

I would much prefer an effective and impenetrable zone defence. Frost would be good depth, but don't pay overs to keep him, please. And thank you.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,603]

I heard Gary Lyon on SEN. this morning and I thought..... does he watch Melbourne games, or is he too busy in his job watching the “big games”, unfortunately not involving the Dees?

Gary’s opinion was based on on his kicking, which I think has improved immensely over the last two years, but he didn’t seem to recognise that. I’m a Frost fan, but I think his deficiencies are in decision making, not kicking. But I think Frosty has improved year by year in that respect. In my opinion his improvement with experience vastly outweighs his tendency for “ clangers”.

Clarkson’s interest in Frost should raise alarm bells in Melbourne list managers. There aren’t too many like him around.Please  keep him!

[Demons11 6,404]

19 minutes ago, ignition. said:

Losing Frost would be an enormous mistake. He continually locked down high-quality opposition forwards, he played his role and did it well. If Frost goes, key forwards will bury next year. If we need to remove a tall, start with Oscar McDonald.

Oscar has no currency and if May and Lever stay fit, then Frost will be lucky to get a game. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Demons11

[goodwindees 2,117]

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

He might win the one on one contests against Weed and Petty but at least once he gets it, he will kick it straight back to us 

Or, just like Collingwood has with Jeremy Howe, his next Club will improve his weakness and play to his strength.

Jeremy Howe was an absolute liability with ball in hand at the Dees, so much so that so many on this site wanted him gone. 

Well, where are those geniuses now given he has been an absolute star at the Pies. One of the first picked in a constant top of the ladder team. Pies immediately improved his kicking & decision making and he’s been a bona fide A Grader for them.

Watch Hawks do exactly the same with Frost. 

[Demons11 6,404]

23 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

Or, just like Collingwood has with Jeremy Howe, his next Club will improve his weakness and play to his strength.

Jeremy Howe was an absolute liability with ball in hand at the Dees, so much so that so many on this site wanted him gone. 

Well, where are those geniuses now given he has been an absolute star at the Pies. One of the first picked in a constant top of the ladder team. Pies immediately improved his kicking & decision making and he’s been a bona fide A Grader for them.

Watch Hawks do exactly the same with Frost. 

What a load of rubbish! 

Howes skills were a thousand times better than Frost.