Farewell Sam Frost

[Macca 16,173]

I wonder if Frost's teammates rallied around him when May went off at him for 5 minutes or so in the Brisbane game.

If not then you could understand Frost looking for the nearest exit.  Players who get their noses put out of joint are prone to wanting out. 

I'd keep him not because he's a star but because he adds something different (pace & dash) And he is decent back-up. 

I'd be keeping Weideman for the same reason even though I only see Weideman as back-up. 

We've got too many C & D grade depth players as it is.  B-  players are better options.  The other thing is what do we get in return?  A pick in the 30's?  I'd rather keep him - unless he definitely wants out and then you do the best possible deal.

[Engorged Onion 9,214]

1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I suspect this might have something to do with us not giving Frost a contract yet. In the last game May played (Collingwood), he constantly looked like he was covering for Frost, and then Frost tunneled him in one of the contests. I wonder, and have said this previously, if May and Lever don't have full trust in Frost.

In 2018 we largely played a zone defense, and guys like May, Lever, Jetta and Hibberd play best in a zone structure. Whereas Frost needs a direct opponent, otherwise he gets too lost. We had to change the way our defense played this year in particular early in the year, but if the game plan is to go back to more of a zone going forward, well the question would be does Frost suit that?  

Some very astute observations there @Red and Blue realist

[Demons11 6,404]

46 minutes ago, Macca said:

I wonder if Frost's teammates rallied around him when May went off at him for 5 minutes or so in the Brisbane game.

If not then you could understand Frost looking for the nearest exit.  Players who get their noses put out of joint are prone to wanting out. 

I'd keep him not because he's a star but because he adds something different (pace & dash) And he is decent back-up. 

I'd be keeping Weideman for the same reason even though I only see Weideman as back-up. 

We've got too many C & D grade depth players as it is.  B-  players are better options.  The other thing is what do we get in return?  A pick in the 30's?  I'd rather keep him - unless he definitely wants out and then you do the best possible deal.

This is a rubbish comment.  Players would have a go at each other all the time, it’s football ffs.

There is no way he would have even cared about the bust up.  It would have all been forgotten 24 hrs later.

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

Article that focuses on Jake Lever, but doesn't mention Frost once. That might tell a very big story. Mentions Lever, May, hibbo and Jetta and how excited they are to play together. No mention of Frost, who was our only defender to play every game.

 

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-09-12/lever-keen-to-make-backline-a-force

[Wiseblood 24,636]

25 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Article that focuses on Jake Lever, but doesn't mention Frost once. That might tell a very big story. Mentions Lever, May, hibbo and Jetta and how excited they are to play together. No mention of Frost, who was our only defender to play every game.

 

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-09-12/lever-keen-to-make-backline-a-force

To put that in context, here are the opening few lines.

JAKE Lever, Steven May, Michael Hibberd, Neville Jetta – the names go on.

This could’ve been Melbourne’s backline in 2019, but it never really got going

I think the gist of the article is mentioning the players that had injuries throughout the year and, thus, weren't able to play together.  It would explain why Frost isn't mentioned as he played all season.  Lever does mention the above three but, again, makes reference to the fact he hasn't played much with them due to injury.

[Redleg 37,441]

I am now starting to feel that Frost is gone.

If true, I hope we have a win with the deal. That would be nice.

[WERRIDEE 5,198]

45 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Article that focuses on Jake Lever, but doesn't mention Frost once. That might tell a very big story. Mentions Lever, May, hibbo and Jetta and how excited they are to play together. No mention of Frost, who was our only defender to play every game.

 

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-09-12/lever-keen-to-make-backline-a-force

Never mentioned Salem either. No biggy I think they mentioned the injured players on purpose. Frost will stay.

[Superunknown 3,307]

1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

This is a rubbish comment.  Players would have a go at each other all the time, it’s football ffs.

There is no way he would have even cared about the bust up.  It would have all been forgotten 24 hrs later.

it's a strong response to a pretty fair comment

[Diamond_Jim 11,670]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

We've got too many C & D grade depth players as it is.  B-  players are better options.  The other thing is what do we get in return?  A pick in the 30's?  I'd rather keep him - unless he definitely wants out and then you do the best possible deal.

That's the problem. We'll get offered their second round at best which will be pick 30 or an NQR player.

I think this is about money and opportunity for Frost.

[Demon3 2,541]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

I wonder if Frost's teammates rallied around him when May went off at him for 5 minutes or so in the Brisbane game.

If not then you could understand Frost looking for the nearest exit.  Players who get their noses put out of joint are prone to wanting out. 

I'd keep him not because he's a star but because he adds something different (pace & dash) And he is decent back-up. 

I'd be keeping Weideman for the same reason even though I only see Weideman as back-up. 

We've got too many C & D grade depth players as it is.  B-  players are better options.  The other thing is what do we get in return?  A pick in the 30's?  I'd rather keep him - unless he definitely wants out and then you do the best possible deal.

I think Frost is pretty thick with the McDonald boys and Maxy.. you would hope they got a round him. in a list of 45, not everyone is going to get along, or at least its unlikely they will.

[Moonshadow 16,099]

3 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I suspect this might have something to do with us not giving Frost a contract yet. In the last game May played (Collingwood), he constantly looked like he was covering for Frost, and then Frost tunneled him in one of the contests. I wonder, and have said this previously, if May and Lever don't have full trust in Frost.

In 2018 we largely played a zone defense, and guys like May, Lever, Jetta and Hibberd play best in a zone structure. Whereas Frost needs a direct opponent, otherwise he gets too lost. We had to change the way our defense played this year in particular early in the year, but if the game plan is to go back to more of a zone going forward, well the question would be does Frost suit that?  

Good post. You certainly are a realist.

[Macca 16,173]

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

There is no way he would have even cared about the bust up.  It would have all been forgotten 24 hrs later.

You obviously don't have any experience in these matters.  You're a bit wet behind the ears if you think a player being berated for over 5 minutes by a teammate is somehow ok

Happened again later in the year with Oliver & Fritsch.  Not only is it unprofessional,  it's churlush and childish.  Shouldn't have happened and should have been knocked on the head straight away - by the coach.  Apart from anything else,  it gives momentum to the team you're playing against.

So I'm more inclined to believe that your comments are rubbish,  not mine. 

Anyway,  I didn't state my opinion as fact.  I just opened up the possibility that Frost might have his nose out of joint from that incident.  Especially if his teammates didn't rally around him

It's a team sport and the players need to play as a team.  Not publicly embarrass them. 

You sound like one of these pound of flesh types.  You were probably egging May on to satisfy your frustrations.

 

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

You obviously don't have any experience in these matters.  You're a bit wet behind the ears if you think a player being berated for over 5 minutes by a teammate is somehow ok

Happened again later in the year with Oliver & Fritsch.  Not only is it unprofessional,  it's churlush and childish.  Shouldn't have happened and should have been knocked on the head straight away - by the coach.  Apart from anything else,  it gives momentum to the team you're playing against.

So I'm more inclined to believe that your comments are rubbish,  not mine. 

Anyway,  I didn't state my opinion as fact.  I just opened up the possibility that Frost might have his nose out of joint from that incident.  Especially if his teammates didn't rally around him

It's a team sport and the players need to play as a team.  Not publicly embarrass them. 

You sound like one of these pound of flesh types.  You were probably egging May on to satisfy your frustrations.

Good point.

I would have preferred that both May and Oliver had handled it the way the Hawks leadership team did with Wingard - he apparently didn't follow a team rule during that quarter.  At the break they stood on the field and had what looked like a tense discussion.  To me the club leaders dealing with it when cool is far better than a tirade from a team mate during the heat of play.

We have much to learn regarding teammate respect and leadership.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[TGR 1,367]

5 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

Serious question: how do you know he’s not demanding $800k pa?

It’s all relative.

If he is, then that is a bargain considering Twigs is on 850 and Maysie on similar coin.

As Rooey said, Frost gives supreme effort, and is the defender that most concerns an oppo forward.

 

We are a slow team, with sub effort everywhere.  Furthermore he is a MDMT that cam play small (Cameron Charlie) or a tall (Daniher).

 

The typically smug MFC supporter has suddenly gone from 'not AFL standard' to 'dont overlook his deficiency'.  

We dont have a frigging clue.  Sadly, I am not just talking about the average supporter.

This is Goodwin-Pert rebuilding, and not sane sensible and sober decision making for this supposed window.  One swallow made our summer.  How pathetic.

Frost goes, and the membership dept shouldnt bother calling.

 

 

 

[dazzledavey36 48,595]

12 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good point.

I would have preferred that both May and Oliver had handled it the way the Hawks leadership team did with Wingard - he apparently didn't follow a team rule during that quarter.  At the break they stood on the field and had what looked like a tense discussion.  To me the club leaders dealing with it when cool is far better than a tirade from a team mate during the heat of play.

We have much to learn regarding teammate respect and leadership.

Let's get some facts corrected here. You explaing what they did at QTR time huddle with Wingard is exactly what May did with Frost during the 3QTR time break.

Whats the difference there?

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Let's get some facts corrected here. You explaing what they did at QTR time huddle with Wingard is exactly what May did with Frost during the 3QTR time break.

Whats the difference there?

iirc May first had a go at Frost during the quarter.  He continued it into the break.

May isn't part of our leadership team. 

He wasn't calm like the Hawks leaders. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Mach5 4,482]

18 minutes ago, TGR said:

If he is, then that is a bargain considering Twigs is on 850 and Maysie on similar coin.

As Rooey said, Frost gives supreme effort, and is the defender that most concerns an oppo forward.

 

We are a slow team, with sub effort everywhere.  Furthermore he is a MDMT that cam play small (Cameron Charlie) or a tall (Daniher).

 

The typically smug MFC supporter has suddenly gone from 'not AFL standard' to 'dont overlook his deficiency'.  

We dont have a frigging clue.  Sadly, I am not just talking about the average supporter.

This is Goodwin-Pert rebuilding, and not sane sensible and sober decision making for this supposed window.  One swallow made our summer.  How pathetic.

Frost goes, and the membership dept shouldnt bother calling.

 

 

 

 

That’s just embarrassing for you.

[dazzledavey36 48,595]

27 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

iirc May first had a go at Frost during the quarter.  He continued it into the break.

May isn't part of our leadership team. 

He wasn't calm like the Hawks leaders. 

Just like they were having a go at Wingard also during the game.

You're seriously kidding yourself if you think those hawks leaders haven't had robust discussion behind closed doors and during games. 

Oh and May has captain an AFL club. Regardless whether they were putrid or not, hes obviously shown high qualitie leadership skills to be put into that position to captain a club.

[markc 975]

5 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I suspect this might have something to do with us not giving Frost a contract yet. In the last game May played (Collingwood), he constantly looked like he was covering for Frost, and then Frost tunneled him in one of the contests. I wonder, and have said this previously, if May and Lever don't have full trust in Frost.

In 2018 we largely played a zone defense, and guys like May, Lever, Jetta and Hibberd play best in a zone structure. Whereas Frost needs a direct opponent, otherwise he gets too lost. We had to change the way our defense played this year in particular early in the year, but if the game plan is to go back to more of a zone going forward, well the question would be does Frost suit that?  

interesting as May stated to me that he prefers a lock down roll , rather than Zone defence. He prefers to be given one player and follow them and nullify their game. He said he had to get used to this Zone style. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by markc

[Macca 16,173]

 

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good point.

I would have preferred that both May and Oliver had handled it the way the Hawks leadership team did with Wingard - he apparently didn't follow a team rule during that quarter.  At the break they stood on the field and had what looked like a tense discussion.  To me the club leaders dealing with it when cool is far better than a tirade from a team mate during the heat of play.

We have much to learn regarding teammate respect and leadership.

Putting all the reasons for Frost possibly leaving aside.  I've said my bit and others have said their bit.  We're not all going to agree so it's best to make the most out of a possible trade (from the club's point of view)

If he is going and he is out of contract,  what bargaining chips does our club have?  I'd say not much at all. Does he become a Delisted free agent if not traded or re-contracted? Or does he have to enter the draft?  

If he had a year or 2 left on his contract it's a different story but right now he can effectively walk anyway.

Worse case scenario is that we get a swap of 4th round picks for Frost.  Or marginally better

Stand corrected on the details

 

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

2 minutes ago, markc said:

interesting as May stated to me that he prefers a lock down roll , rather than Zone defence. He prefers to be given one player and follow them and nullify their game. He said he had to get used to this Zone style. 

And, I recall him saying he didn't get a fitness program until he arrived for preseason and that his weight was fine for the lock down roll but the demon's zone role required him to lose weight.

One wonders how much communication there was about his role before he signed up.

[markc 975]

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

And, I recall him saying he didn't get a fitness program until he arrived for preseason and that his weight was fine for the lock down roll but the demon's zone role required him to lose weight.

One wonders how much communication there was about his role before he signed up.

he pretty well said the same thing to me , he had to get much fitter for the new roll. 

he was very open and honest about it .

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

Putting all the reasons for Frost possibly leaving aside.  I've said my bit and others have said their bit.  We're not all going to agree so it's best to make the most out of a possible trade (from the club's point of view)

If he is going and he is out of contract,  what bargaining chips does our club have?  I'd say not much at all. Does he become a Delisted free agent if not traded or re-contracted? Or does he have to enter the draft?  

If he had a year or 2 left on his contract it's a different story but right now he can effectively walk anyway.

Worse case scenario is that we get a swap of 4th round picks for Frost.  Or marginally better

Stand corrected on the details

No bargaining chip at all.  Our only real option is to equal another club's offer which seems unlikely on the mixed reports.

Yes, he becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent.  We have to delist him before he can enter the draft. 

But as soon as we delist him (if we did) someone would snap him up as an UFA as he can walk to the club of his choice and we get zip.

If he wants to go best we get a trade done.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dee tention 611]

Dees should be hell bent in keeping Frosty... 

He gives 100% week in week out. Might make some mistakes. But which defender doesn’t? He does a hell of a lot right!

I was rapt when we got him and would be rapt to keep him...

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,785]

26 minutes ago, markc said:

interesting as May stated to me that he prefers a lock down roll , rather than Zone defence. He prefers to be given one player and follow them and nullify their game. He said he had to get used to this Zone style. 

He's come from Gold Coast, its all about self preservation up that way. One on one type operator.