Farewell Sam Frost

[Demon Dynasty 15,189]

1 hour ago, Keilor Demon said:

The years spent in investing and seeing Frosty develop why would you let him go to another club, if it is money remember Carlton came up short on Betts , Adelaide's gain. They say the Dees lack leg sped on the wings well why don't

 they let frost have a go there let other clubs try matching up with some like Sam who is quick, good overhead and can kick a long distance no wonder the Hawks and Roos are licking their lips. What a ready made footballer they would get.. A long time supporter please keep Sam Frost  reminds me of a young Gary Hardiman. Stick with the Dees Sam. David long time suffering supporter 

Welcome aboard the peace train KD!

P.S.  apologies for the horrid spelling (*lessens) and incorrect wording (*worm burner) on my last post up there minions ☝?...written in a big rush.

[WERRIDEE 5,198]

I would be amazed if Frost left he's finally cemented his spot in the side and had a very good year when most of the team went backwards. A must keep for mine allows Lever to dominate in the pocket.

[Older demon 2,166]

I filled in an online petition some started with a submission to re-sign Frosty. It is run by change.org I think it would be a grave error in judgement to not offer Sam an new contract, but then the FD have made a few blunders in recent times. I cannot divulge more without giving away my identity

[Demon Disciple 10,896]

2 hours ago, Older demon said:

 I cannot divulge more without giving away my identity

Batman?

[John Demonic 4,781]

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Batman?

Nah, it's Mr Freeze

[#36 11]

who would give up the opportunity to play with Clarkson ? The bloke is a god, we’d have him in a heartbeat,

[#36 11]

He wasn’t loved until we gave up on the Oscar ‘[censored]’ MacDonald experiment, not sure he feels loved by our coaches

[Kent 2,574]

11 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Question for all would you pay Frost more or Jones more next season?

Id pay Frost more.

I wouldn't have Jones anywhere near the team next year. never liked his footy great clubman hard tryerbut

his loser mentality is infectious Hope he gets the message and goes

[Demon Dynasty 15,189]

18 minutes ago, #36 said:

He wasn’t loved until we gave up on the Oscar ‘[censored]’ MacDonald experiment, not sure he feels loved by our coaches

Weid and Oscar were both big favs of  Macca.  Dunn's career (for us) was cut short as a result of the Oscar preference.

Hopefully all that nonsense of "the next big thing" (or the earlier classic "youth policy" - Schwab) left with him and those within the FD are now basing their selection  decisions on relevant qualitative and quantitative performance measures, game day results and the players' ability to carry out the roles being asked of them.

We might get the mix / culture within the FD right at some point ....hopefully sooner than later.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Kent 2,574]

11 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

I reckon Frost's disposal has improved markedly and despite the odd howler, it's not his biggest problem. The issue is giving away goals through brain farts, being (way) out of position, poor contesting with the incoming ball, giving away free kicks (often repeatedly with far too late tackles or just wtf moments). He's just not a natural footballer but has improved markedly and gives his all.

His speed was a godsend in our plodding backline (with May mostly out of the side) and Frostball (if he hits his target) can work as neither side has a clue what he's going to do.

Facts:

Ranked 8th in the league for intercept possessions

25th for spoils

Intercept marks 38th (ahead of Hore but behind Gawn)

Turnovers 205th

Clangers 75th

Here's the killer - Contested Defensive losses 7th

I'd love to keep him if there's no decent trade offers because he'll keep on improving. Prefer him ahead of Omac (another plodder)

What is Oscars current contract status?

 

[Dee Zephyr 17,302]

8 hours ago, Older demon said:

I filled in an online petition some started with a submission to re-sign Frosty. It is run by change.org I think it would be a grave error in judgement to not offer Sam an new contract, but then the FD have made a few blunders in recent times. I cannot divulge more without giving away my identity

Interesting comments in there, one could easily misinterpret it as a get rid of O Mac petition.

Curious, did we have a keep Jesse or Watts petition?

[AshleyH30 566]

12 minutes ago, Kent said:

What is Oscars current contract status?

 

Still has 1 year to run on his contract.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:54 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Or the torpedo punts into the centre square from full back 

Or round 23 when he destroyed Brown

Or the run and 2 handballs and one kick to setup a goal v Freo 

Frosty was one of the very few bright lights in 2019

ridiculous to low ball any contract offer 

I don't understand your post. 

For every positive piece of play you name, I could name a negative one. 

I hold an indifferent view when it comes to Frost. I mean, if we got a second round pick for the former rookie we'd be laughing but if we didn't I'd rather persist. 

The point is that there seems to be an imbalance in the views of supporters on here in regards to what Frost offers. 

Why name all of those positive plays without acknowledging the goals he gifts opposition sides, free kicks he gives away or turnovers he makes? It doesn't make sense. 

[TGR 1,367]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah Richmond's success was built off the foundations laid by Wallace ?

pBS

Says an MFC supporter who was probably bowing to Roosy on Fox after a final last year.

Fine line aint it.

 

 

[Roger Mellie 3,482]

11 hours ago, Supermercado said:

Would be interested in the rankings shown as a percentage of contests. Might not be any better considering we were only (?) 10th worst in the comp at conceding inside 50s but would still give a better indication.

You're right. He doesn't rate too badly. They have a stat for Defensive contested losses as a percentage of one on ones and his is 36%.  Room for improvement as a KD. Contested Defensive Losses is pretty much all KDs and the 'winners' in this category include both excellent and average KDs. Phil Davis and Daniel Talia are up there as well as players such as Jack Homsch (sp) who would have been bombarded all year. Time to edit my post to reflect this (just attempted to and cant access the earlier post for some reason. So, for now, the misinformation stands)

Edited September 11, 2019 by Roger Mellie
Don't seem to be able to edit original post

[Dee Zephyr 17,302]

Something’s got to give if the last two trade periods are anything to go by. We want to add some needs and if Frosty is the one to go for whatever reason so be it, don’t mean to sound harsh as I thought he was exciting for most of the season. Supporters were using Hogan’s bad record against top 8 teams last season as one of the reasons they were happy with the trade and I’m interested to see if the same ones are overlooking Frost’s deficiencies in order to keep him. I do admire the passion from fans though with the petition and their support of Frost.

Unfortunately this was such a horrendous season it’s left me feeling very frustrated like most and frankly beyond caring about ‘fan favourites’ departing with the exception of a handful of current players. Maybe a bit late to the party in that aspect, but the club needs to rebound quickly. 

[Mental Demons 136]

To lose Frost would be another example of appalling list management. Frost was our best and most consistent defender last year. I notice that nobody is interested in poaching May or O Mac unfortunately.

We are going to have to put up all next year with the excuses of players getting use to the new coaching staff and game plan. Tomlinson is more of what we have heaps of and only really insurance if May and Leaver are as productive as they were this season. Tomlinson is overpriced, a waste of money and will not solve anything. This team will need a rebuild after a poor season next year. MFC is stuffed. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

16 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

To lose Frost would be another example of appalling list management. Frost was our best and most consistent defender last year. I notice that nobody is interested in poaching May or O Mac unfortunately.

We are going to have to put up all next year with the excuses of players getting use to the new coaching staff and game plan. Tomlinson is more of what we have heaps of and only really insurance if May and Leaver are as productive as they were this season. Tomlinson is overpriced, a waste of money and will not solve anything. This team will need a rebuild after a poor season next year. MFC is stuffed. 

Classic stuff here.

Firstly, no one is after May as he just came to the club and signed a long term deal.

Secondly, Tomlinson can't be overpriced as we can get the bloke for free on a decent contract.

Thirdly, what are the other instances of poor list management?  I know we had a shocker of a season, but list management hasn't been the cause of that.  We haven't lost anyone of significance and we've added some very handy players over the last 3-4 years, while signing up many of the kids that are crucial to our long term goals.

[zeldacat 46]

Anyone know of any ongoing rumblings that Frosty and May don't get along? Could this be the reason he's looking elsewhere? Haven't seen or heard anything after their on-field "discussions" to think that everything is a-ok.

[Mach5 4,482]

17 hours ago, TheoX said:

Re-sign him already, Lever and May can't even get on the park, we're [censored] if Omac is getting a game.

 

Serious question: how do you know he’s not demanding $800k pa?

It’s all relative.

[DemonOX 8,529]

20 hours ago, Mr Steve said:

Could never understand why frost was not given a go on the Wing. 

Because he is not fast enough but Jones and Lewis are!

Brilliant strategy by the MFC. 

[Mental Demons 136]

58 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

what are the other instances of poor list management?

Tomlinson will be overpriced at least $600,000 + a year. For that sort of money I would rather keep Frost and pick up a hungry prospect.  Pruess is ordinary and was overpriced and only insurance, Vandenberg was signed for 3 years and has not played a game since. May and KK were overpriced. Nobody is enough of a sucker to want May. May is the most secure player on our list and he is getting old and struggles to get out there. Our captains do not lead by example anymore. Viney is no longer a first string midfielder and struggles in any other position. Jones is getting older and slower and will have a season next year like Lewis had this year finishing at Casey. We have no balance in our midfield and are top heavy with in and under types. We have no balance in our back-line with too many intercept defenders and only Frost who can make a defender accountable one on one. Our defensive zone sucked last year and was easily beaten. We are short of run through the midfield and wings. Lever has been overpriced for his efforts so far but at least can play if he is fit.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

15 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

Tomlinson will be overpriced at least $600,000 + a year. For that sort of money I would rather keep Frost and pick up a hungry prospect.  Pruess is ordinary and was overpriced and only insurance, Vandenberg was signed for 3 years and has not played a game since. May and KK were overpriced. Nobody is enough of a sucker to want May. May is the most secure player on our list and he is getting old and struggles to get out there. Our captains do not lead by example anymore. Viney is no longer a first string midfielder and struggles in any other position. Jones is getting older and slower and will have a season next year like Lewis had this year finishing at Casey. We have no balance in our midfield and are top heavy with in and under types. We have no balance in our back-line with too many intercept defenders and only Frost who can make a defender accountable one on one. Our defensive zone sucked last year and was easily beaten. We are short of run through the midfield and wings. Lever has been overpriced for his efforts so far but at least can play if he is fit.

We recruited May and Lever, two premier defenders in their prime, to the club.  They don't come cheap.  Plus, before we got Lever, supporters and the club knew that we needed to fix our key position stocks in the backline.  We were crying out for it.  We go and do that but we still aren't happy.

We added Hibberd and Melksham for second round picks.  Master stroke.

AVB deserved that contract after the two months he had, including finals.  He was a major component of our run to the Prelim.

KK came as an afterthought in the May deal.  Overpriced?  Hardly.

Our backline, when fit, is a strength and our forward line, when fit, is also a strength.  I won't argue that we have a few too many in and under types, but then we would have hoped for more from KK, Stretch, Hunt etc.  KK and Stretch couldn't get on the park and we needed Hunt forward.  Salem is another who might have pushed up but injuries meant he played across half back.

Also, I'm impressed with how many times you used 'overpriced' in your post.  Well done.

Edit - we also swapped Fritsch for Watts, which was a win, and got Hannan for next to nothing.  If we can get these guys all on the park together, fit and ready to go, then I'm confident we are back in the finals frame in 2020.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Wiseblood

[Mental Demons 136]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Also, I'm impressed with how many times you used 'overpriced' in your post.  Well done.

Overpriced is a telltale yardstick when judging list management, which is the question you asked. Is this your attempt to be confused and rude? Our window is shut and we need a careful rebuild. Our back-line zone is weak, one dimensional and unaccountable.  

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

1 hour ago, zeldacat said:

Anyone know of any ongoing rumblings that Frosty and May don't get along? Could this be the reason he's looking elsewhere? Haven't seen or heard anything after their on-field "discussions" to think that everything is a-ok.

I suspect this might have something to do with us not giving Frost a contract yet. In the last game May played (Collingwood), he constantly looked like he was covering for Frost, and then Frost tunneled him in one of the contests. I wonder, and have said this previously, if May and Lever don't have full trust in Frost.

In 2018 we largely played a zone defense, and guys like May, Lever, Jetta and Hibberd play best in a zone structure. Whereas Frost needs a direct opponent, otherwise he gets too lost. We had to change the way our defense played this year in particular early in the year, but if the game plan is to go back to more of a zone going forward, well the question would be does Frost suit that?