Hayden Young (Drafted by Fremantle)

[Ugottobekidding 915]

5 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

I had the privilege of a pre-draft meet with the club some years back and we looked at Rohan Bail's QAFL highlights ahead of drafting him. It was a long reel and he continually hit targets or kicked long to advantage like he was Nathan Buckley incarnate.  Fast forward to AFL pressure ...

Makes me only more sus about jackson who looks ok amongst juniors. And only really ok, not even that amazing. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

7 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

?

He projects closer to Elliott Yeoh with leadership like Luke Hodge. He's got attributes to become a gun midfielder or half back flanker.

He's got elite agility, decent speed, elite kicking, elite handballing, elite decision making, elite intercept marking, aggressive at the body. The knock on him is he can be too accountable and try to body up too much. He'll have to learn to play slightly less aggressive at the man at AFL level or he might get suspended or lose wrestling matches against bigger bigger forwards.

Is this based on knightmares write up or your opinion?

He is hardly aggressive, a few people get over excited with him pushing someone into the ground after pinging them for holding the ball.

I watched all his highlights on the NAB league app and 2 vic country games.

While he might statistically take intercept marks to an elite level, I don't see this being a strength of his or translating to AFL level.

Can't see anything close to Luke Hodge or Elliot Yeo myself. Would have liked to see him playing more midfield and less 'quarterback' where his teammates would constantly give him the ball when they could have easily made the same kick themselves.

He is far from a sure thing, but would still love to get him at pick 10.

[WERRIDEE 5,206]

B: JETTA, MAY, SALEM

HB: YOUNG, LEVER, HIBBERD

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: BENNELL, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: MELKSHAM, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: HARMES, JONES, PETTY, BROWN

[Skuit 9,122]

21 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I don't watch much of the under age stuff, so have only seen highlights so not the most qualified to offer this up, but Toumpas was rated a phenomenal kick in his draft year, however as we all know with the extra speed and pressure the AFL brings as compared to under 18s, he was found out.

 

17 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

I had the privilege of a pre-draft meet with the club some years back and we looked at Rohan Bail's QAFL highlights ahead of drafting him. It was a long reel and he continually hit targets or kicked long to advantage like he was Nathan Buckley incarnate.  Fast forward to AFL pressure ...

I get both of your peripheral points (while not entirely agreeing - the question  of stepping-up to AFL pressure should apply equally to all prospects in my opinion) - but I went back and looked at all the pre-draft footage I could find of Toumpas and Bail - and while decent kicks, I don't see anything remotely close to what I see in Young as to foot-skills. 

I'm open to the possibility that my constant exposure to crap kicking this year has left me biased. But I genuinely view Young as a phenom. With the bonus of a strong intercept game, leadership, and some aggression. I'm of the belief that we have a very strong list - and would usually back the candidate with the highest ceiling - but right now I just want some reliable delivery. 

[fr_ap 2,144]

For all those frothing about the prospect of Young - I suggest you go and watch the full u18 championship games. 

He's a lovely kick no doubt, but he is rarely involved in anything significant and as the poster above mentioned, gets a lot of cheap kicks running past. His running game also leaves a lot to be desired in comparison to someone like Ash (though I am not sold on him either). 

I would still like to get him at 10 as I think he has the scope and tools to develop into a good player, but calling a phenom is just pure uninformed.

He has a way to go and more than a few weaknesses. 

[Skuit 9,122]

13 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

For all those frothing about the prospect of Young - I suggest you go and watch the full u18 championship games. 

I would still like to get him at 10 as I think he has the scope and tools to develop into a good player, but calling a phenom is just pure uninformed.

He has a way to go and more than a few weaknesses. 

A kicking phenom. He has the best kicking I have seen in a draft prospect on the available footage. I've made it clear multiple times that I am indeed completely uniformed and he may have other weaknesses, but am still waiting for someone to show me a better pre-AFL kick?

[ManDee 7,076]

Phenom, when did that become a word? I despair at times or should I say I desp? 

[fr_ap 2,144]

17 minutes ago, Skuit said:

A kicking phenom. He has the best kicking I have seen in a draft prospect on the available footage. I've made it clear multiple times that I am indeed completely uniformed and he may have other weaknesses, but am still waiting for someone to show me a better pre-AFL kick?

Fair enough - though James Strauss says hello.

There have been plenty of elite kicks come through the system that fail to make it. In judging draft prospects, I don't think it is the most important trait. Regardless of our need for it. 

People were scared off Worpel who just hacked it forward in u18s. Matt crouch same story. Both developed into more than useful kicks at AFL level. 

More important to me are the decision making capabilities of the player. I have a slight concern in this area as if you watch the full games, you will see Young quite often tries too much with his kicking. He turns it over a lot - pinpoint accuracy and flawless technique doesn't stop this if the decision making is suspect.

[Skuit 9,122]

7 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Phenom, when did that become a word? I despair at times or should I say I desp? 

ManDeee - I have a writing degree and work in the field. It doesn't matter when, but 'phenom' has indeed become an accepted noun - a back-transformation which demonstrates the flexibility and thus dominance of the English language - which like all languages,  should be judged on the ability to communicate an idea. In this instance,  the notion that Young if a [censored] bloody good kick. 

[ManDee 7,076]

12 minutes ago, Skuit said:

ManDeee - I have a writing degree and work in the field. It doesn't matter when, but 'phenom' has indeed become an accepted noun - a back-transformation which demonstrates the flexibility and thus dominance of the English language - which like all languages,  should be judged on the ability to communicate an idea. In this instance,  the notion that Young if a [censored] bloody good kick. 

I was actually interested when it became a word as it was never in my lexicon. Personally I find the dumbing down of the language fraught. And for goodness sake Skuit there are two e's in ManDee and I also think that Young IS a (censored) bloody good kick. 

[Skuit 9,122]

3 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I was actually interested when it became a word as it was never in my lexicon. Personally I find the dumbing down of the language fraught. And for goodness sake Skuit there are two e's in ManDee and I also think that Young IS a (censored) bloody good kick. 

For the record Mandeee - I never said I was good at my job. Also, 'phenom' seems to have been in use in the US since the 1890s. These crazy American hip-hop kids with the bastardisation of our language, huh. 

[Skuit 9,122]

53 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Fair enough - though James Strauss says hello.

There have been plenty of elite kicks come through the system that fail to make it. In judging draft prospects, I don't think it is the most important trait. Regardless of our need for it. 

People were scared off Worpel who just hacked it forward in u18s. Matt crouch same story. Both developed into more than useful kicks at AFL level. 

More important to me are the decision making capabilities of the player. I have a slight concern in this area as if you watch the full games, you will see Young quite often tries too much with his kicking. He turns it over a lot - pinpoint accuracy and flawless technique doesn't stop this if the decision making is suspect.

Valid points, as conceded. But on on my primary and only point, I checked James's Strauss's draft package and snub his hello. 

[ManDee 7,076]

3 minutes ago, Skuit said:

For the record Mandeee - I never said I was good at my job. Also, 'phenom' seems to have been in use in the US since the 1890s. These crazy American hip-hop kids with the bastardisation of our language, huh. 

Just checked the etymology, it is baseball slang! Now I know why I dislike it. That's it for me i'm getting off of this site, my dolorous state has me upchucking.

[spirit of norm smith 12,878]

Forget any comparison to Strauss. That’s a joke. 
 

Young is an elite kick. He has footy smarts, aerial marking skills and leadership.  Our ball use is horrible. We need players like this kid. 

[Skuit 9,122]

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Just checked the etymology, it is baseball slang! Now I know why I dislike it. That's it for me i'm getting off of this site, my dolorous state has me upchucking.

I think our discussion has become way too heated ManDeeee and we should probably resolve it peaceably off-line, perhaps by way of a pistol-duel in the town-square at dawn? 

[ManDee 7,076]

4 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I think our discussion has become way too heated ManDeeee and we should probably resolve it peaceably off-line, perhaps by way of a pistol-duel in the town-square at dawn? 

Too racy for me, how about baguettes and coffee at half ten?

 

Edit: Sorry Hayden Young fans I digress.

Edited November 21, 2019 by ManDee

[Kent 2,579]

I think we are missed on Young

Good Kicks are important but we have a plethora of half backs so not too disturbing in my opinion.

Really hope Kemp is there at 10.

 Future star

 

[Skuit 9,122]

Just now, ManDee said:

Too racy for me, how about baguettes and coffee at half ten?

We could always use proxies. I pick Hayden Young, for his precision targeting. You're welcome to Luke Jackson if you dare. 

[ding 5,126]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

For the record Mandeee - I never said I was good at my job. Also, 'phenom' seems to have been in use in the US since the 1890s. These crazy American hip-hop kids with the bastardisation of our language, huh. 

Hip-Hop was around in the 1890's ???

Geez, i must be much older than i feel.........

[fr_ap 2,144]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

Valid points, as conceded. But on on my primary and only point, I checked James's Strauss's draft package and snub his hello. 

Can't argue with that if you've gone and watched his package! I haven't made the direct comparison myself - just raising his name as someone else we took relatively early on the basis of kicking being his elite trait. 

Young does appear more well rounded but not sure the comparison is a joke. 

Again - I would suggest SONS and others watch the full u18 championship games and focus on who in your opinion actually turns the games and wins them. That's who we should draft. Eye-catching kicking is just that. 

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

I have no great insight into these draftees this year but...

I would be very wary of taking a junior who has made a name as a half back flanker specialising as an uncontested distributor high in the draft.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Stretch Johnson

[Mach5 4,482]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:40 AM, Skuit said:

A kicking phenom. He has the best kicking I have seen in a draft prospect on the available footage. I've made it clear multiple times that I am indeed completely uniformed and he may have other weaknesses, but am still waiting for someone to show me a better pre-AFL kick?

 

So? Ever considered that you’re placing too much value on his kicking ability?

Yes, he looks to be a very good kick. Is it really that valuable?

I think the issue is making sure the majority of your side, if not all, are at least good kicks; not to use early picks on a great kick as if that one player will completely change your side’s ability.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Mach5

[spirit of norm smith 12,878]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:50 AM, fr_ap said:

Can't argue with that if you've gone and watched his package! I haven't made the direct comparison myself - just raising his name as someone else we took relatively early on the basis of kicking being his elite trait. 

Young does appear more well rounded but not sure the comparison is a joke. 

Again - I would suggest SONS and others watch the full u18 championship games and focus on who in your opinion actually turns the games and wins them. That's who we should draft. Eye-catching kicking is just that. 

Watch how Young kicks the ball to Wareham.  That won Vic country the game v WA.  So your point is that Young’s elite kicking is essential 

[Beetle 4,280]

3 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Watch how Young kicks the ball to Wareham.  That won Vic country the game v WA.  So your point is that Young’s elite kicking is essential 

Vic country didn't win the game. WA took it straight down the other end and kicked a goal.

[Binmans PA 25,923]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:10 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

Forget any comparison to Strauss. That’s a joke. 
 

Young is an elite kick. He has footy smarts, aerial marking skills and leadership.  Our ball use is horrible. We need players like this kid. 

Ball use is overrated. I don't know how many times I've posted this now but people continually seem to think being an elite kick will solve problems. It's all about work rate and being able to work to space to make targets easier. Salem is a beautiful kick but it hasn't made him an A grader.