Jump to content
  • Demonland Interviews

Sign in to follow this  
Demonland

Off Season Surgeries Will be Minimal

Recommended Posts

Out:  All players not carrying a niggle, injury and all those required for next season.

In:  All fringe players / rookies (yes, including Bradtke & other first gamers), Lewis and anyone else who is expendable.  Even i'm happy to sit on the bench handing out oranges at quarter time and running on with the occasional water bottle after a goal if it means making up a mock 22!

NS's curse is ever present! ...

..."Barring major problems in the final round against North Melbourne in Hobart, it will give incoming fitness boss Darren Burgess - who was appointed in late July - a chance to make an immediate impact on the group that is expected to undergo a fierce pre-season after winning just five games for the season..."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Rusty Nails  (or anyone who brings it up). 

 Can you do me a favour mate and explain how curses work in general, and then more specifically how the Norm Smith one influences the current day FD, or individual athletes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

@Rusty Nails  (or anyone who brings it up). 

 Can you do me a favour mate and explain how curses work in general, and then more specifically how the Norm Smith one influences the current day FD, or individual athletes.

2f0ba23bee19f7a7c63532c47f3ecc2b.gif.8674f6e88936d31475ea9945da42663d.gif

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

@Rusty Nails  (or anyone who brings it up). 

 Can you do me a favour mate and explain how curses work in general, and then more specifically how the Norm Smith one influences the current day FD, or individual athletes.

No don't rusty. Trying to explain the NS curse only makes it worse. 

It is enough to say it is real. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good. I had a feeling we'd be stuffed for 2019 when they announced the long list of surgeries last spring. There's no good reason to expect a side to have a healthy and successful season ahead when 12-15 of your list are coming back from surgeries.

Sounds like Weed (hip) and Lever (possible ankle surgery)  might have delayed starts to the pre-season. Hopefully everyone else can hit the ground running and some other sides can cop the long list of surgeries this time around. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, binman said:

No don't rusty. Trying to explain the NS curse only makes it worse. 

It is enough to say it is real. 

Correct Bin.  Only the most tainted minions know the NSC is something not to be meddled with!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

@Rusty Nails  (or anyone who brings it up). 

 Can you do me a favour mate and explain how curses work in general, and then more specifically how the Norm Smith one influences the current day FD, or individual athletes.

It's actually quite simple. When a Bad Thing is spelled out upon an entity (any entity, but particularly a sporting team), all Bad Things that happen to that Entity (or sporting team) are forevermore attributed to the Bad Thing. This is called the Curse. When a lot of people stop believing in the Curse (or resolve themselves to just, y'know, succeed?!), then the Curse is dispelled forever and everyone can go on living their lives.

After that, the Curse then goes about its un-merry way, eager to haunt another overly-superstitious entity (again, any entity, but particularly a sporting team as mentioned above).

Edited by Chook
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

There's no good reason to expect a side to have a healthy and successful season ahead when 12-15 of your list are coming back from surgeries. 

 

Some of those players have actually produced decent seasons. 

Petracca for instance. 

Making a comment like you have is pointless. We all know it's highly unlikely that a side will have a successful year if a host of players will be requiring some sort of surgery. 

However, what you and so many other happy-go-luckies fail to make mention of is that a team competing in a prelim final falling to 17th the following year simply can't be explained by injuries.

In short - 

Yeh, it's hard to have a 'successful' year with that many surgeries, but it's equally as hard to finish second bottom and win only 5 games for the year unless there are some other suspect reasons at play. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

In short - 

Yeh, it's hard to have a 'successful' year with that many surgeries, but it's equally as hard to finish second bottom and win only 5 games for the year unless there are some other suspect reasons at play. 

Can you elaborate?

I also think there is something amiss, but I don’t know and would only be speculating. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Some of those players have actually produced decent seasons. 

Petracca for instance. 

Making a comment like you have is pointless. We all know it's highly unlikely that a side will have a successful year if a host of players will be requiring some sort of surgery. 

However, what you and so many other happy-go-luckies fail to make mention of is that a team competing in a prelim final falling to 17th the following year simply can't be explained by injuries.

In short - 

Yeh, it's hard to have a 'successful' year with that many surgeries, but it's equally as hard to finish second bottom and win only 5 games for the year unless there are some other suspect reasons at play. 

I'm far from one of those around here mate. I'll be the first to say we've been an absolute disgrace this year. Such a disgrace that the head coach should just about be shown the door for such an epic collapse.

I was merely stating that I had grave concerns during the off season, and reading the training reports in January that most of our midfield was still in the rehab group, that we'd possibly go backwards this year. They don't say you need a good and healthy pre-season for no reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Some of those players have actually produced decent seasons. 

Petracca for instance. 

Making a comment like you have is pointless. We all know it's highly unlikely that a side will have a successful year if a host of players will be requiring some sort of surgery. 

However, what you and so many other happy-go-luckies fail to make mention of is that a team competing in a prelim final falling to 17th the following year simply can't be explained by injuries.

In short - 

Yeh, it's hard to have a 'successful' year with that many surgeries, but it's equally as hard to finish second bottom and win only 5 games for the year unless there are some other suspect reasons at play. 

While agreeing there seems to be potentially more at play than just injuries, it surely has to be the major factor in what has happened this season. There are a couple of reasons:

- The pre-season surgeries naturally put teams behind, but we also had our shortest pre-season ever. With the majority of the core of the team sitting with between 50-120 games  (Gawn, Viney, Trac, Harmes, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Weid and with the majority of the fringe players also in the same boat) means they don't have the 'miles in the legs' as some of the teams that have competed regularly in finals. We've seen in the past Geelong, Hawks, Richmond, the Eagles and the dogs have a down year/s when they've gone deep into finals with younger squads, those mentioned (with the exception of the dogs (yet)) have all come back again and been successful.

- Add on the in-season injuries, it was in another thread - and don't quote me on exact figures - but up until the Richmond game we'd lost something like 120 games to our best 22 players, the tigers had lost 90 and the Pies 60. Those teams were used as examples as they were discussed at the time as teams with large injury lists. On top of that the injuries seemed to be very concentrated at one end each week, early in the season we'd be missing 4 or 5 of our best defenders then as the season progressed it transferred to the forward half. Very hard to build anything in season when we've got such deficiencies. 

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but a limited pre-season and in-season injuries are certainly big factors. I'm very happy there'll be limited off-season hold ups and we've got Burgess to hopefully get them super fit. Only then will we be able to reliable assess if some of the issues are (as discussed on the many forums here) - the coach, game plan, the captains, selection, Pert, selling games to the NT etc. 

 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

While agreeing there seems to be potentially more at play than just injuries, it surely has to be the major factor in what has happened this season. There are a couple of reasons:

- The pre-season surgeries naturally put teams behind, but we also had our shortest pre-season ever. With the majority of the core of the team sitting with between 50-120 games  (Gawn, Viney, Trac, Harmes, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Weid and with the majority of the fringe players also in the same boat) means they don't have the 'miles in the legs' as some of the teams that have competed regularly in finals. We've seen in the past Geelong, Hawks, Richmond, the Eagles and the dogs have a down year/s when they've gone deep into finals with younger squads, those mentioned (with the exception of the dogs (yet)) have all come back again and been successful.

- Add on the in-season injuries, it was in another thread - and don't quote me on exact figures - but up until the Richmond game we'd lost something like 120 games to our best 22 players, the tigers had lost 90 and the Pies 60. Those teams were used as examples as they were discussed at the time as teams with large injury lists. On top of that the injuries seemed to be very concentrated at one end each week, early in the season we'd be missing 4 or 5 of our best defenders then as the season progressed it transferred to the forward half. Very hard to build anything in season when we've got such deficiencies. 

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but a limited pre-season and in-season injuries are certainly big factors. I'm very happy there'll be limited off-season hold ups and we've got Burgess to hopefully get them super fit. Only then will we be able to reliable assess if some of the issues are (as discussed on the many forums here) - the coach, game plan, the captains, selection, Pert, selling games to the NT etc. 

 

Very well summarised. How others can't see this beggars belief.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/23/2019 at 10:14 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

While agreeing there seems to be potentially more at play than just injuries, it surely has to be the major factor in what has happened this season. There are a couple of reasons:

- The pre-season surgeries naturally put teams behind, but we also had our shortest pre-season ever. With the majority of the core of the team sitting with between 50-120 games  (Gawn, Viney, Trac, Harmes, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Weid and with the majority of the fringe players also in the same boat) means they don't have the 'miles in the legs' as some of the teams that have competed regularly in finals. We've seen in the past Geelong, Hawks, Richmond, the Eagles and the dogs have a down year/s when they've gone deep into finals with younger squads, those mentioned (with the exception of the dogs (yet)) have all come back again and been successful.

- Add on the in-season injuries, it was in another thread - and don't quote me on exact figures - but up until the Richmond game we'd lost something like 120 games to our best 22 players, the tigers had lost 90 and the Pies 60. Those teams were used as examples as they were discussed at the time as teams with large injury lists. On top of that the injuries seemed to be very concentrated at one end each week, early in the season we'd be missing 4 or 5 of our best defenders then as the season progressed it transferred to the forward half. Very hard to build anything in season when we've got such deficiencies. 

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but a limited pre-season and in-season injuries are certainly big factors. I'm very happy there'll be limited off-season hold ups and we've got Burgess to hopefully get them super fit. Only then will we be able to reliable assess if some of the issues are (as discussed on the many forums here) - the coach, game plan, the captains, selection, Pert, selling games to the NT etc. 

 

Best thought through article that i have read on this topic , well done

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better start working on new excuses for 2020 then. You know, just in case...

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Better start working on new excuses for 2020 then. You know, just in case...

Knock yourself out over the off season thinking of them

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/23/2019 at 10:14 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

While agreeing there seems to be potentially more at play than just injuries, it surely has to be the major factor in what has happened this season. There are a couple of reasons:

- The pre-season surgeries naturally put teams behind, but we also had our shortest pre-season ever. With the majority of the core of the team sitting with between 50-120 games  (Gawn, Viney, Trac, Harmes, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Weid and with the majority of the fringe players also in the same boat) means they don't have the 'miles in the legs' as some of the teams that have competed regularly in finals. We've seen in the past Geelong, Hawks, Richmond, the Eagles and the dogs have a down year/s when they've gone deep into finals with younger squads, those mentioned (with the exception of the dogs (yet)) have all come back again and been successful.

- Add on the in-season injuries, it was in another thread - and don't quote me on exact figures - but up until the Richmond game we'd lost something like 120 games to our best 22 players, the tigers had lost 90 and the Pies 60. Those teams were used as examples as they were discussed at the time as teams with large injury lists. On top of that the injuries seemed to be very concentrated at one end each week, early in the season we'd be missing 4 or 5 of our best defenders then as the season progressed it transferred to the forward half. Very hard to build anything in season when we've got such deficiencies. 

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but a limited pre-season and in-season injuries are certainly big factors. I'm very happy there'll be limited off-season hold ups and we've got Burgess to hopefully get them super fit. Only then will we be able to reliable assess if some of the issues are (as discussed on the many forums here) - the coach, game plan, the captains, selection, Pert, selling games to the NT etc. 

 

Wonderful post. Time will tell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BarassiWisdom said:

I hear @Lord Nev is going in for heart surgery to replace the pea with something hopefully a little larger.

@drysdale demon is going in for his routine IQ check. Hoping to crack it for triple figures this time.

Decided to go out in a blaze of glory hey? Good for you, I'm sure it will make all your problems go away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 8/23/2019 at 10:14 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

While agreeing there seems to be potentially more at play than just injuries, it surely has to be the major factor in what has happened this season. There are a couple of reasons:

- The pre-season surgeries naturally put teams behind, but we also had our shortest pre-season ever. With the majority of the core of the team sitting with between 50-120 games  (Gawn, Viney, Trac, Harmes, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Weid and with the majority of the fringe players also in the same boat) means they don't have the 'miles in the legs' as some of the teams that have competed regularly in finals. We've seen in the past Geelong, Hawks, Richmond, the Eagles and the dogs have a down year/s when they've gone deep into finals with younger squads, those mentioned (with the exception of the dogs (yet)) have all come back again and been successful.

- Add on the in-season injuries, it was in another thread - and don't quote me on exact figures - but up until the Richmond game we'd lost something like 120 games to our best 22 players, the tigers had lost 90 and the Pies 60. Those teams were used as examples as they were discussed at the time as teams with large injury lists. On top of that the injuries seemed to be very concentrated at one end each week, early in the season we'd be missing 4 or 5 of our best defenders then as the season progressed it transferred to the forward half. Very hard to build anything in season when we've got such deficiencies. 

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but a limited pre-season and in-season injuries are certainly big factors. I'm very happy there'll be limited off-season hold ups and we've got Burgess to hopefully get them super fit. Only then will we be able to reliable assess if some of the issues are (as discussed on the many forums here) - the coach, game plan, the captains, selection, Pert, selling games to the NT etc. 

 

Really good post.

However, to those who, in response to this good post and elsewhere, are saying that the posters who've been critical are blind to the impact of injuries, your assertion is completely erroneous. No one is denying the impact of a bad preseason and injuries throughout the year. The criticism is about how the coaching staff have failed in response to this, and also the overall direction of the team. Some on here feel that the way the team plays is not conducive to winning games of football, regardless of injury (the cult of contested football, for example, particularly when the midfield has been the healthiest group). Others feel that the coaching staff continually make poor decisions that they fail to either adequately address or rectify (Fritsch playing back when the team couldn't score, for example).

The point is that both injuries and a horrendous coaching performance since October can be true at the same time. Goodwin has even now admitted this - that the coaches got it wrong. So the base was already poor to begin with, the injuries just amplified the problems.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No denying injuries were a factor, but we did totally change our coaching structure midway through the season too...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/23/2019 at 10:14 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

While agreeing there seems to be potentially more at play than just injuries, it surely has to be the major factor in what has happened this season. There are a couple of reasons:

- The pre-season surgeries naturally put teams behind, but we also had our shortest pre-season ever. With the majority of the core of the team sitting with between 50-120 games  (Gawn, Viney, Trac, Harmes, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Weid and with the majority of the fringe players also in the same boat) means they don't have the 'miles in the legs' as some of the teams that have competed regularly in finals. We've seen in the past Geelong, Hawks, Richmond, the Eagles and the dogs have a down year/s when they've gone deep into finals with younger squads, those mentioned (with the exception of the dogs (yet)) have all come back again and been successful.

- Add on the in-season injuries, it was in another thread - and don't quote me on exact figures - but up until the Richmond game we'd lost something like 120 games to our best 22 players, the tigers had lost 90 and the Pies 60. Those teams were used as examples as they were discussed at the time as teams with large injury lists. On top of that the injuries seemed to be very concentrated at one end each week, early in the season we'd be missing 4 or 5 of our best defenders then as the season progressed it transferred to the forward half. Very hard to build anything in season when we've got such deficiencies. 

I'm not saying there aren't other factors but a limited pre-season and in-season injuries are certainly big factors. I'm very happy there'll be limited off-season hold ups and we've got Burgess to hopefully get them super fit. Only then will we be able to reliable assess if some of the issues are (as discussed on the many forums here) - the coach, game plan, the captains, selection, Pert, selling games to the NT etc. 

 

You left out poor recruiting. Why do clubs like Richmond get Tom Lynch for example and we scrape the barrel? We are full of VFL level players at present. Also I hope the players are not run so hard in the off season that they sustain over use injuries such as stress fractures. They need hours of skills training including goal- kicking practice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/24/2019 at 7:25 PM, Jaded said:

Better start working on new excuses for 2020 then. You know, just in case...

On it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/25/2019 at 8:45 AM, Lord Nev said:

No denying injuries were a factor, but we did totally change our coaching structure midway through the season too...

 

And that changed Coaching Structure made no difference at all...

Problems are deep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    SOCIAL DISTANCING by George on the Outer

    It was good to see the MFC players practicing the directives about social distancing at the game against West Coast.  Pity was that they continued to do so after the first bounce of the ball, as they allowed numerous WCE players run around un-hindered, with not a Melbourne player within 1.5 metres of them! They then found themselves looking at nearly a 5 goal deficit at the first break, which was to be essentially the final margin for the game. It is difficult to judge exactly what is going

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    BEST IN SHOW by Whispering Jack

    I am writing this knowing that the AFL has deemed that the opening round of competition will proceed but fully believing that it should not.  The world is going through cataclysmic change as a result of the overwhelming spread of the Covid-19 virus and I agree that a distraction like sport would be good for the public. However, while the physical threat to the population is bad enough, there are other  issues to be addressed including the mental health of the community and the effects on th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    TASSIE DEVILS by Van Demon

    If you were looking for something new from the Demons that wasn’t there last year, you didn’t have to look further than the perfectly trimmed grass surface of UTAS Stadium last night as the team steamrolled the Hawks to record a comprehensive 32-point victory to complete their Marsh Community Series commitments for 2020. One new thing was the fact that for the second Marsh game in a row, the team finished full of running and they dominated the second half without the presence or the dominan

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SOUTH OF THE BORDER by Paddy Gosch

    The Demons will go into their final Marsh Series match with a strong lineup against the Hawks in Tasmania. Both Max Gawn and Steven May, who were recovering from injuries in first Marsh Series match, have both been named. It is unclear whether Max will be on restricted minutes and will likely get breaks in the ruck with Sam Weideman and rookie Luke Jackson getting their turns in the middle. Angus Brayshaw will be getting his first taste of competitive football despite playing in last week’s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    KANGAROO CAUGHT by Whispering Jack

    There was a fair amount of debate in our area as to whether the game warranted a full blown match report because it was felt that it was really an elevated version of a training session with match simulation but against a team in opposition colours. Although notionally the stronger side, North seemed to be using the occasion for the purpose of working on aspects of their game plan, one of the features of which seemed to be based on taking the longest possible route out of defence and good luck w

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    JUST AN ABERRATION by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne unveiled its top recruits with new fitness boss Darren Burgess and mid-sized bull Christian Petracca sharing top billing in the team’s Marsh Community Series opener in front of 3,095 football starved fans at Casey Fields and thousands of others watching on screens of various shapes and sizes.  What they saw was a different Melbourne to the one that failed to run out its JLT Series games last year and then crashed in a heap early in the season proper with performances lacking the z

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 4

    CROWDOWN by Paddy Gosch

    The Demons open their 2020 season account with a "home" game against the Adelaide Crows at Casey Fields. It’s been more than 5 and half agonising months for the team and supporters who are eager to atone for the disappointing 2019 season which saw the Dees go from Preliminary Finalist to 2nd bottom on the ladder. The preseason campaign has been a hard slog with the addition of respected High Performance Manager Darren Burgess. We caught a glimpse of the gut busting sessions in the Melbourne

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE YEAR THE SKY FELL by The Oracle

    After a number of years of linear movement up the ladder, the Melbourne Football Club unexpectedly went into serious decline in 2019, slumping from fourth to 17th in a season that coach Simon Goodwin described “a complete wipe-out”. Those around the club who tried to analyse the apocalyptic events that unfolded during the year were hard pressed to find a single reason for the debacle but the most plausible explanation was that the club’s troubles stemmed from a lack of fitness and injuries that

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    BACK IN STYLE by Whispering Jack

    From the moment when the Elton John character in the movie “Rocketman” burst into its opening scene dressed as a flamboyant demon on his way to an addiction rehabilitation session, the game was on. Here was yet another film about a person gifted with a meteoric rise to stardom finding coke, booze and a hedonistic lifestyle that led directly to a destructive crash into the abyss. Ultimately, these stories end in total disaster (“A Star is Born”, “Bohemian Rhapsody”, “Judy”) but this one resulted

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2019

    PART ONE - OVERTURE  I have a disclaimer at the outset. I’m not a fan of the races - be they horses or motors of any kind. Once the final siren sounds on the football season, I find the month or so that follows and corresponds roughly with the Spring Racing Carnival to be the most boring time of the year for sports fans. You turn on the radio and you’re confronted by the monotonous drone of a self-proclaimed racing expert or by the nasally twang of an ex-jockey banging on about the equine p

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 8

    CHANGES 2019 by The Oracle

    PART 1 - IT’S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THIS TIME This year’s free agency, trade and draft period will see the usual drama and upheaval as the AFL’s 18 clubs seek to better their lists in order to challenge for finals and possibly premiership honours. Long before the final siren sounded on the season just over a week ago, the maneuvering was under way with player agents and clubs discussing possible player movements and in some cases, deals had already been done.  Yesterday, the r

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 2

    HOW FAR SOUTH? by George on the Outer

    It was appropriate that Melbourne was playing its last game of season 2019 in Hobart.  After all, how much further south could the team go? And much as it has done in many of the previous 22 games, the side managed to extract a loss from a winning position by simply giving the ball back to the opposition time and time again. In fact, they gave it back to the opposition to the tune of 53 points from turnovers while, by way of contrast North Melbourne contributed  only 17 points to their oppo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...