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6 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Yes it was Gordon that insisted on Boyd in Griffen trade but only after Griffen insisted on going to GWS.  

not true , again coming from assistant coaches at the time, Gordon went after Boyd forcing Griffin out.

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I remember during Roos's time at Melbourne he very clearly said that Josh was a very good operator at his job. I think up until this year his track record has been pretty good, it all depends on how you look at it. Now obviously with our team having a horror year you're going to analyse is with a negative view point, but how about we think about how we rated him at the end of last year? I'd say most of us would've said he's doing an excellent job. He'd managed to attract talented players to our club, and overseen a period of long stability in amongst the key coaching ranks. The regular knock on him was that he didn't negotiate hard enough on the Lever trade, I don't disagree with that but we are yet to see Lever have a proper season with us. I suspect when that happens he will show us what a difference we makes to the team.

Now flashing forward to now. It has been a horror year and as head of the footy department of course he has to take a measure of responsibility for that as do others in key FD positions. I'm not interested in the wrist slashing view points, until this year he's been in charge of a footy department that has seen improvement every year until this nightmare. How history will ultimately rate him is how he reviews the downfall of this year and what he does to ensure that next year we are back up to the top 8. If he isn't brutal and impartial in his assessments, if he doesn't ask the hard questions of the coaches (mainly Goodwin), if he takes the approach of "oh injuries screwed our season before it began" then he is not doing his job and by all means the fire can be lit under him.

But Paul Roos and PJ BOTH spoke extremely highly of him, and as I said until this year we've seen steady improvement. This is where he earns his money, if he does a thorough, proper review of the FD and the squad, and if he's again able to identify and secure some talent from other clubs to nab then he's doing his job.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pates said:

I remember during Roos's time at Melbourne he very clearly said that Josh was a very good operator at his job. I think up until this year his track record has been pretty good, it all depends on how you look at it. Now obviously with our team having a horror year you're going to analyse is with a negative view point, but how about we think about how we rated him at the end of last year? I'd say most of us would've said he's doing an excellent job. He'd managed to attract talented players to our club, and overseen a period of long stability in amongst the key coaching ranks. The regular knock on him was that he didn't negotiate hard enough on the Lever trade, I don't disagree with that but we are yet to see Lever have a proper season with us. I suspect when that happens he will show us what a difference we makes to the team.

Now flashing forward to now. It has been a horror year and as head of the footy department of course he has to take a measure of responsibility for that as do others in key FD positions. I'm not interested in the wrist slashing view points, until this year he's been in charge of a footy department that has seen improvement every year until this nightmare. How history will ultimately rate him is how he reviews the downfall of this year and what he does to ensure that next year we are back up to the top 8. If he isn't brutal and impartial in his assessments, if he doesn't ask the hard questions of the coaches (mainly Goodwin), if he takes the approach of "oh injuries screwed our season before it began" then he is not doing his job and by all means the fire can be lit under him.

But Paul Roos and PJ BOTH spoke extremely highly of him, and as I said until this year we've seen steady improvement. This is where he earns his money, if he does a thorough, proper review of the FD and the squad, and if he's again able to identify and secure some talent from other clubs to nab then he's doing his job.

Goodwin in his own  admission on 3aw interview stated that they failed to do adequate game simulations during preseason & tinkered with the game plan. Amazing when you consider the 6,6,6 change & very amateurish. I applaud him for his honesty but along with his assistants sunk the club which may cause long term damage to its list mentally & finances will take a hit. Let’s hope they can recover as the crows haven’t since the 17 gf loss.

Edited by Demonsone

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5 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

 

He’s hardly sitting pat; he’s making bulk moves and didn’t even wait until the season was over to begin restructuring. No time wasted.

Of course, you're right 'Mach'...but what if he is the problem?

I'm not saying he is, but I would like to see every angle looked at after a season like this one.

I just hope we're on the right track here.

Yet again we've been in the football wilderness and just when it looked like we had turned the corner we get season 2019.

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6 minutes ago, rjay said:

Of course, you're right 'Mach'...but what if he is the problem?

I'm not saying he is, but I would like to see every angle looked at after a season like this one.

I just hope we're on the right track here.

Yet again we've been in the football wilderness and just when it looked like we had turned the corner we get season 2019.

 

I have only heard good things, and from people that matter. 

He may or may not have made some wrong decisions in the past, but that is not such an issue for me; what matters are his behaviours and his actions, and they have spoken and continue to speak volumes.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

I have only heard good things, and from people that matter. 

He may or may not have made some wrong decisions in the past, but that is not such an issue for me; what matters are his behaviours and his actions, and they have spoken and continue to speak volumes.

To anyone involved in Clubs, committees this is a year to show strength, I'm not a n apologist for the club, the FD or the board but this is a time to show strength as a club and grow. Reading demonland over the years through good and bad times tells you a lot about postets, especially those who appear frequently or infrequently in the good and bad times. To anyone I offend in my post I don't apologise whilst you may have the clubs best intentions at heart you have risen with arrogance this season dismissed the 3 year gradual rise and selectively chsosen stats and articles to prove your point. Am I equally guilty possibly but I look at the list, the demographic and the expectations. This season has been a disgrace no other way to describe it and I'm hoping we learn from our complacency. I do not see Mahoney as a  problem what I see in this thread and other threads is

<Removed pot shots at other posters>

The old board and FD would have reacted to the above, thrown staff to the wolves sacked coaches based on discontent. They would also be the first to call talkback or at future club functions complain of the clubs lack of stability 

Remember before you decide on Mahoney and Bartlett that this club no longer leaks , we have seen significant improvement under PJ and Roos who both endorsed Goody and Mahoney, the season 2019 is a disgrace and seeing how we react will tell you whether these people are worthy of their role.

I love this club and want success/contention over a sustained period, it takes time and we are still a year or 2 away from that.

Things are never as good as they seem and never as bad as they seem 

Edited by Demonland
Removed Pot shots at other posters
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Keep him, but I don't want him involved in recruitment. Way too much offered for lever and may, and I suspect this was his call entirely 

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Possibly a shame that those accusing others of wearisome chucking of armaments  cants actually  understand what is being mentioned.

It's  not possible  nor desirable often...in a time of hairtrigger litigation ...to call a spade a spade.

Again...anyone thinking we are a well oiled machine ought check their barometer of delusion.  

We had many of the ingredients  to provide for success. And yet where are we ? A miserable  pathetic. ..yes PATHETIC  17th..going nowhere fast.

Someone took a decent beef ragu and turned it into tinned  spag bog.

Mahoney  may well have done some half decent things along the way but he's at the helm if a mess. That's  upon him as much as any other. 

Those that shout...he was  PJs choice. ..well..quite frankly imho PJ though an excellent Administrator  really knew fa about footy. In that regard a choice of Mahoney  is flawed. 

Just having bits of paper is no guarantee  of anything.  Ive metvand had to deal with Engineers and Architects ( all holding paper ( degrees)) that were hopeless...that needed errors and problems  of their making sorted.

We have ppl in the club who have run amok long enough.  I dont think it prudent of bloke A to run an eye over work done by ...bloke A. It's  stupid 101.

Bloke A will never give the required impartial inspection . It just isnt part of the human  condition  to do so.

So maybe folk should be less concerned about so called grenades and more curious about what breaches in the castle give light to.

Without doubt we dont leak like a sieve as once we did. The football world..indeed business world ...are places where words spread.

There are posters here who in their non Dland time move among circles where 'things' are discussed.

Invariably at  the top of any list of sources i personally  rely upon to be manifestly askew will be the topical one..ie. in the case of the MFC...they are down the list of actual  reliability  to tell you what  is really happening  at the MFC.  Same goes for much really  doesn't  it.

People can believe  what they like.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

 

Geez this is a poor post and I'm surprised it's allowed to stay up. A whole big post just to pot other posters here. Disgraceful.

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58 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Geez this is a poor post and I'm surprised it's allowed to stay up. A whole big post just to pot other posters here. Disgraceful.

why we're all adults 

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1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

why we're all adults 

Not convinced by that given you used a whole huge post just to take pot shots at people on the internet.

Come on mate, there's always going to be people you don't like here, doesn't mean you can't talk footy with them or even just ignore them.

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7 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

To anyone involved in Clubs, committees this is a year to show strength, I'm not a n apologist for the club, the FD or the board but this is a time to show strength as a club and grow. Reading demonland over the years through good and bad times tells you a lot about postets, especially those who appear frequently or infrequently in the good and bad times. To anyone I offend in my post I don't apologise whilst you may have the clubs best intentions at heart you have risen with arrogance this season dismissed the 3 year gradual rise and selectively chsosen stats and articles to prove your point. Am I equally guilty possibly but I look at the list, the demographic and the expectations. This season has been a disgrace no other way to describe it and I'm hoping we learn from our complacency. I do not see Mahoney as a  problem what I see in this thread and other threads is

Olisik- an absolute gobshite who has no idea about football or the running of a club and the work, which goes into list management, managing injury  accessing your list and someone who only pops their head up in downtimes. I've yet to see this poster provide anything of substance with regard to list management which isn't in hindsight. Demonland would be better without his/her one sided negative contribution 

BB - it's a shame because in some threads this poster provides some insight. Maybe they are battle weary but I see the classic grenade thrower of days gone by who floats through after game functions in social clubs and changerooms not offering opinions totally but pulling pins in groups and walking away to leave others to discuss and decide spreading feelings of discontent.

SWYL - as battle weary as they come and can't see the liht at the end of the tunnel and forever damaged after the drop off from 2018 to 2019. Loves the club but makes outlandish statements and claims not to cause dissent amongst the club or board but for the love of his Dees

The old board and FD would have reacted to the above, thrown staff to the wolves sacked coaches based on discontent. They would also be the first to call talkback or at future club functions complain of the clubs lack of stability 

Remember before you decide on Mahoney and Bartlett that this club no longer leaks , we have seen significant improvement under PJ and Roos who both endorsed Goody and Mahoney, the season 2019 is a disgrace and seeing how we react will tell you whether these people are worthy of their role.

I love this club and want success/contention over a sustained period, it takes time and we are still a year or 2 away from that.

Things are never as good as they seem and never as bad as they seem 

Gee mate, you are forgetting its footy, you are forgetting the games history, how people battled through the depression and cold Melbourne winters with Saturday footy and their local suburban club being at the heart of their existence. I know people today who still have it as the most important part of their life. Come with me and visit a disability provider and see how the guys talk about footy. We are all allowed to have our say and yes sometimes that means being critical of people running the Club and less so players. But why do most of us do this? Because we are playing out our imagination, imagining we know who should go and who should stay. As supporters we can do that. No one is booing the players. We all do that in our own jobs everyday. Unfortunately like any success starved organization internal criticism probably happens here more than any other AFL site. Does that make the critics wrong or have they learned over the years exactly who is a right fit our Club through bitter experience. I wasn't on the site then but am sure there was unanimous support for the Jackson -Roos combination. Why, was that just a hunch or did people look at the character and experience of Roos and Jackson. 

I suggest lighten up, go and watch the Jack Thompson Club.

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18 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Can you pinpoint at which time in podcast Pert said/alluded to this.  Have listened twice but can't find it.

It may have been in the ABC interview Pert did shortly before. There is a link to that interview in the Inside Melbourne podcast on iTunes. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/inside-melbourne/id1359521560?i=1000446676085

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4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Geez this is a poor post and I'm surprised it's allowed to stay up. A whole big post just to pot other posters here. Disgraceful.

How about you report posts instead of whinging about them in threads. Mods can't read every post.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Siren said:

It may have been in the ABC interview Pert did shortly before. There is a link to that interview in the Inside Melbourne podcast on iTunes. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/inside-melbourne/id1359521560?i=1000446676085

Many thanks.  I didn't hear a reference to Mahoney in that interview.  Nonetheless, it was a very good interview by Pert.  Great insight into why our season has been poor and interesting commentary on the review process.  I have made posts on these later items in the 'Gary Pert' thread so as to not sidetrack this thread.

Re your earlier post (#30) that you thought Pert made a comment '... that Mahoney is moving into more of a CEO role at Casey next year. Another strategic movement to further his career...'  While I haven't heard it, (would be rapt if you could locate that podcast) the prospect is interesting. 

During the search for PJ's replacement Mahoney was touted as his successor.  I felt he first needed more experience in a breadth of club roles and/or a stint at AFL Head Office to further his career.

I am going totally into the speculation mode here but wouldn't be surprised if Mahoney moved to an AFL role or a developmental role such as the one you flagged: CEO Casey.  Looking at our Casey, VFL and AFLW staff they are spread across various departments and with the Casey development about to start it would be great experience to bring it all together. 

I have noted many times that I think he is an excellent administrator and either of those moves would be great for his career and play to his strengths.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Just speaking with a friend today who knows a few staff inside the club, they mentioned that both players and staff are quite unhappy with Mahoney which has been growing worse over the season. I wonder if some announcement about Mahoney may form part of the “major announcement” alleged to be occurring on Sunday?

Also found out the doctors at Melbourne are not part of the AFL cohort unlike other clubs. Not sure why that means but perhaps others do?

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On 8/18/2019 at 7:52 PM, Demonsone said:

Goodwin in his own  admission on 3aw interview stated that they failed to do adequate game simulations during preseason & tinkered with the game plan. Amazing when you consider the 6,6,6 change & very amateurish. I applaud him for his honesty but along with his assistants sunk the club which may cause long term damage to its list mentally & finances will take a hit. Let’s hope they can recover as the crows haven’t since the 17 gf loss.

I think the number of players in rehab in January and even February had a big impact on our ability to spend enough time doing match simulation. To meet it seems that on reflection, hindsight being a wonderful thing, Goodwin had wished we'd spent the limited match simulation we had on the fundamentals to our game plan, rather than adding layers. As a result we went into the season with a game plan we couldn't execute. 

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28 minutes ago, —coach— said:

Just speaking with a friend today who knows a few staff inside the club, they mentioned that both players and staff are quite unhappy with Mahoney which has been growing worse over the season. I wonder if some announcement about Mahoney may form part of the “major announcement” alleged to be occurring on Sunday?

Also found out the doctors at Melbourne are not part of the AFL cohort unlike other clubs. Not sure why that means but perhaps others do?

Slowly. ..it eeks out.

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1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Slowly. ..it eeks out.

Next week will be blood letting

Teams don’t crash and burn like ours has without major infighting 

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30 minutes ago, —coach— said:

Just speaking with a friend today who knows a few staff inside the club, they mentioned that both players and staff are quite unhappy with Mahoney which has been growing worse over the season. I wonder if some announcement about Mahoney may form part of the “major announcement” alleged to be occurring on Sunday?

Also found out the doctors at Melbourne are not part of the AFL cohort unlike other clubs. Not sure why that means but perhaps others do?

Did you friend discuss the details of what they were peeved about in particular? Was it about how he operated in relationships or more pragmatics about systems/structure/decisions making that impacted the players?

As an add on - not being part of the cohort means your opinion that is sought, may be entirely dismissed (knowing this as it is a directly lived experience) - ie: you are valued...only to a point that it goes with what wants to be heard.

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PSD has been quiet this week... I think it all got a bit much for him...

thanks for the critique btw, will be remembered......

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Did you friend discuss the details of what they were peeved about in particular? Was it about how he operated in relationships or more pragmatics about systems/structure/decisions making that impacted the players?

As an add on - not being part of the cohort means your opinion that is sought, may be entirely dismissed (knowing this as it is a directly lived experience) - ie: you are valued...only to a point that it goes with what wants to be heard.

Just that there is a “disconnect” with Mahoney from staff and players and that he is in the thick of the angst, so one wonders if him missing out on the CEO role has had an influence here.

Edited by —coach—
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3 minutes ago, —coach— said:

Just that there is a “disconnect” with Mahoney from staff and players and that he is in the thick of the angst, so one wonders if him missing out on the CEO role has had an influence here.

Well, if as you have alluded to, that Mahoney goes - Pert is making his (and stakeholders he is accountable to) agenda quite clear.

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24 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Did you friend discuss the details of what they were peeved about in particular? Was it about how he operated in relationships or more pragmatics about systems/structure/decisions making that impacted the players?

As an add on - not being part of the cohort means your opinion that is sought, may be entirely dismissed (knowing this as it is a directly lived experience) - ie: you are valued...only to a point that it goes with what wants to be heard.

Ts & Cs apply

Please read  the Product  Description 

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7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Ts & Cs apply

Please read  the Product  Description 

Oh mate, your posts are so so cryptic. plain english please.

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