Are we tanking?

[beelzebub 22,225]

All things equal doesn't  the notion of tanking suggest deliberately  playing in such a fashion as to be detrimental  to winning. 

Therefore to be tanking you would  , I presume be in a position to win but choose not too.

In that case half our games could come under scrutiny for that alone. 

Or..wed have to have exhibited a winning capability but setup/play in a manner counter to this.

How can we tank when we dont know how to win ? 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by beelzebub

[Demon Dynasty 15,161]

28 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

Then we have no chance because May won't be playing forward or any other posse till 2020

Yes was referring to the Pies match only Sam.  Seen many years of bad injury luck at demonland and this is just another in a konga line of mayhem.

[monoccular 15,989]

11 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

Melbourne v Sydney on Friday night is must-see TV. Two teams desperate to remain in touch of the top eight.

Are you referring to the top eight draft picks? 

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Add to that allowing the Pie's best ball users to run amok, paying them scant respect/attention for pretty much the entire match from what i heard and the little i saw.

Some examples (and i've only seen highlights/lowlights!)...

> Pendles - Gus's eagerness to leave him on at least one occasion while he waltzes inside 50 for an easy goal... well highlighted.

> Sidebottom - Jones starting 30 feet away on the point of square at the bounces, no one else in cooee!  The vision is damning.

> Varcoe - Jones apparently minding at times?  Never a chance of catching him on the burst & starting well off his shoulder from the limited clips i witnessed.  Varcoe also allowed free run at the footy.

Even though this might appear to smell a little fishy my conclusion is it's yet another wonderful example of "how not to win" from our Coach & FD and why i am very skeptical of Goody's coaching ability.

There has been zero cohesion from any of the back 6 all year and Hore is our best defender.  There was absolutely nothing to gain by playing Oscar ahead of Hore unless they wanted to put Hore in cotton wool for 2020.

Hore in for Oscar.  May forward for this match to have any chance of a win.

No brainer.

All that said, it is not evidence of tanking.  Experimentation, on top of poor coaching doesn’t equate to tanking. 

44 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

All things equal doesn't  the notion of tanking suggest deliberately  playing in such a fashion as to be detrimental  to winning. 

Therefore to be tanking you would  , I presume be in a position to win but choose not too.

In that case half our games could come under scrutiny for that alone. 

Or..wed have to have exhibited a winning capability but setup/play in a manner counter to this.

How can we tank when we dont know how to win ? 

 

beelzebub - are you a barrister? Pity you didn’t come out with that brilliant defence treatise when we were in the gun circa 2010.  

Edited August 14, 2019 by monoccular

[Demon Dynasty 15,161]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Because if we stand to gain anything from these last few games, it's trying to get some cohesion as a unit between Lever, May and Frost.

And because the player who went forward needed to ruck as well (and OMac was easier to sacrifice into the ruck than May).

And because OMac's career is floundering so why not see if he could do something different as a forward.

I wanted Hore to play but they made a call with the height of our backline, including Hibberd. Just because we lost and Hibberd struggled doesn't mean we're tanking.

Not great analysis, Rusty.

Brayshaw didn't show "eagnerness" to leave Pendlebury. That's one example, highlighted in slow motion, and not even that bad of a decision from Brayshaw.

Jones wasn't just leaving Sidebottom for the sake of it. Goodwin was trying to bring run off the back of the square. This has been done to death now.

Varcoe did kick two goals but had no real influence on the game otherwise. At any rate, which speedy player should we have played on him anyway, if you're that concerned by his pace? We're slow whether we're "tanking" or not.

The Oscar v Hore thing is explicable. I'd have played Hore anyway, but they weren't going to ruck Hore, or May, so someone had to play that second ruck role (and I do not agree that May is a good option for that role).

We will agree to disagree TA.

Gus made the decision to leave Pendles early in that example.  Slow mo or not.  I say he looked eager, you say he didn't.  We can argue the point till the cows come home.   Regardless, it was certainly an ordinary decision that ended up in a goal by his direct opponent at the time. (Pendles +1 goal)

Ball in our hand i get that you need to spread and run into space.  IMV i don't see Jones as generally being a line breaking runner though (he might find space lateral through evasive skills/experience but that's about where it ends for mine).  You need to be accountable when the ball's in dispute, especially in defence, closing down on your man or at least finding anyone loose, even if he isn't your direct opponent.  If Jones can't get within cooee of an opponent in many of these scenarios (Sidebottom/Varcoe, whoever) and isn't very good at breaking lines / providing run, then why play him in a defensive role at all?  His opponent (anyone with decent burst speed) is only going to take advantage of the extra space and time and punish him on turnovers.  Jones often the one turning it over as well (ranked 10th in turnovers this season on averages).

Varcoe's a gazelle who doesn't like a hard tag (most don't).  Initially sacrifice Baker & JKH on Varcoe in a shared lock down and if that doesn't work, Harmes as a final back up.  (Varcoe +2 goals)

Three goals down from the above and we lost by just under three.  Every goal matters.  I'm not saying the above prevents Varcoe from scoring at all.  We all know he is likely to get off the leash at some stage and probably get at least one of those two.  But there were at least two training drill goals, the one from Pendles via Gus and at least one from Varcoe with Jones a mile behind at the Punt Rd end, where there was zero pressure applied.  No wonder Varcoe was celebrating.  Must have felt like the good Ol' days down at the cattery with youth on his side running on top of the turf.

Combine a stack of turnovers with non-accountable footy (poor match ups / decision makers etc)... good luck with winning much of anything other than against the worst in the comp.  And let's not kid ourselves, the overall team the Pies put up on the weekend was arguably their worst (or very close to it) all season with a very patched up forward line (similar to ours).  This was a very gettable rare win in the offing and we completely blew it (just as we did Rnd 23, 2017 to miss finals....with the Pies having NOTHING to play for but pride).

Edited August 14, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 15,161]

50 minutes ago, monoccular said:

All that said, it is not evidence of tanking.  Experimentation, on top of poor coaching doesn’t equate to tanking. 

I wasn't saying it was Mono.  Coaching issues...

[Redleg 37,447]

16 hours ago, monoccular said:

 

beelzebub - are you a barrister? Pity you didn’t come out with that brilliant defence treatise when we were in the gun circa 2010.  

No he isn't, but I am and I came out with that Defence back then, plus numerous others.

Like so many DL's we posted that how can you deliberately lose, when you are not good enough to win anyway.

Would I be accused of tanking in a tennis match against Roger Federer if I didn't try my best to win?

Also, in the game we copped it for tanking against the Tigers, we were leading when the final siren blew, a second after Jordan  McMahon marked it and then kicked the goal and won the Tigers the game.

"The tanking furore has previously centred on the Melbourne's narrow 2009 Round 18 loss to Richmond, where Tiger Jordan McMahon kicked a match-winning goal after the siren"

 

Anyway, enough of tanking talk.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Redleg

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,095]

If we happen to fall over the line tomorrow night, I don't think we'll be giving it 300% against North.

[binman 37,724]

10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we happen to fall over the line tomorrow night, I don't think we'll be giving it 300% against North.

We'll win this week. And lose next week. Take it to the bank.

[chookrat 3,774]

On 8/13/2019 at 10:36 PM, Mydee said:

What a terrible thread, it serves no real purpose and can only harm the club. Of all the clubs that have suffered from this accusation Melbourne has possibly fared the worst and largely through the flippancy of one of its paid officials. I had hoped that we were all a little bit more mature these days and yes, that does include the supporters. I don't mind our members and supporters being frustrated with our performance this year and expressing their feelings in the strongest terms. I can understand long suffering members dropping their membership, after all 55 years of  failure is very hard to take. But raising this sort of nonsense is absolutely illconsidered, pathetic and contrary to the club's interests.. Firstly would the person that raised this explain exactly what they mean by tanking, for example does risking our players' health constitute by playing them with niggles constitute tanking,?  Does playing inexperienced kids with potential rather than experienced players who have continually dissapointed constitute tanking? And does selecting players in positions  where they have not played before constitute tanking?  Or does he really mean that the players aren't trying?

Olisik, I have read a lot of your posts and I usually refrain from commenting because others here usually do a good job in rebutting your histrionics, as interesting as they are, but in this case I feel obliged to comment because they serve absolutely no useful purpose and as others have pointed out for a number of reasons that we really have dissapointed this year because of genuine on and off field short comings.

There is a word that rhymes with tanking that comes to mind but I will leave that one aside.

Surely after all the club has been thrpugh you can see the funny side to this. Lighten up, this is a pretty funny topic. 

[chookrat 3,774]

24 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we happen to fall over the line tomorrow night, I don't think we'll be giving it 300% against North.

I certianly wouldn't be flying down to tassie for round 23.

[olisik 4,060]

Petty dropped for Spargo. We are just taking the [censored] now

[Bates Mate 3,816]

We can close this thread

[drysdale demon 4,143]

11 minutes ago, olisik said:

Petty dropped for Spargo. We are just taking the [censored] now

Injured, get it right.

[beelzebub 22,225]

are we boxing clever  ???

 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,603]

I don't understand the changes.

I dropped in to Vic Park and saw the second half on Sunday.

Spargo, (who I think has a great future), didn't get a kick.

Didn't see Billy Stretch do much. Nibbler and Marty Hore did well.

Chandler showed a lot of pace , and it's good to see him get a game.

Preuss absolutely dominated the ruck, and is a superb replacement if Max is ever hurt or needs a rest,

Meanwhile, I thought OMac looked promising up forward, and deserved another try there.

Can't see why Hunt, Petty, or Baker were dropped.

Are some of the omissions due to injury?

[olisik 4,060]

38 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Injured, get it right.

And Hunt?

[SPC 2,770]

I’d close this thread as it might be used as evidence.. 100% a septic tank 

[Ugottobekidding 913]

Not tNking just a voud of talent or form.

[drysdale demon 4,143]

14 minutes ago, olisik said:

And Hunt?

poor form or not playing to instructions

[olisik 4,060]

11 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

poor form or not playing to instructions

Based on that criteria our whole team should be omitted.

[monoccular 15,989]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we happen to fall over the line tomorrow night, I don't think we'll be giving it 300% against North.

How can anyone ever give >100%?

[Sir Why You Little 34,405]

23 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

poor form or not playing to instructions

Bahahaha that’s really funny ? 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,281]

To suggest we are tanking is ludicrous, I believe Goody refers to it as ‘strategically losing’.

[Moonshadow 16,099]

On 8/14/2019 at 4:50 PM, olisik said:

Why wouldn’t you put May forward and Hore in backline?

You do know that May is injured and cannot play again this year????

FMD.

[olisik 4,060]

12 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

You do know that May is injured and cannot play again this year????

FMD.

If you checked the time stamp you would notice that was said before he was injured...

Unless your suggesting that he was already injured when I posted that, in which you have come to the right thread my friend.

Edited August 15, 2019 by olisik