Is the pre-season camp debacle still relevant?

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

17 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

You guys are [censored] in the head to make a connection, with this year and a camp that did not happen in 2017, why not bring up the smith sacking, let's all slash our wrists, hell let's go back to 186, surely that has a impact in 2019

Funny how we don’t hear your voice on talk back radio anymore  not so much to say now?

Did you ever have a new teacher at school that you “broke” on their first day?

If so, did you ever respect their words after that??

 

[dazzledavey36 48,700]

A camp that was supposed to happened nearly 2 years ago is now effecting our performance?? Wait what?

What effect did the camp make when we knocked off Hawthorn on our way to a prelim? It was all quite on that front hey.

This is getting too funny. We have far bigger issues like lack of skill level and injuries that havr killed us this year plus poor coaching. 

[Demons11 6,404]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

yes it was...but in hindsight it possibly has more weight that we were prepared to concede at the time

 

Actually...would have been a masterstroke..really

What a load of rubbish. 

[Demonsone 1,596]

3 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Big difference.

One was 100 points.  We are consistently doing down by less than 30ish.

In a sense Goodwin is right.  IE that we are not far away.  A couple less turnovers and some slightly straighter kicking for goal per game in 2019 and we play finals.

Unfortunately our inability to handle pressure sees us consistently short of placing ourselves in winning positions.  And the rest of the comp knows it.

Leadership and coaching.

 

5 wins vs 12-13 to play finals..look at the stats deeper we are getting smashed on the outside.

Skill level deplorable.

Saints may win 11 games after sacking their coach & they are miles away from a finals team

We are planets away from playing finals!

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

5 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

5 wins vs 12-13 to play finals..look at the stats deeper we are getting smashed on the outside.

Skill level deplorable.

Saints may win 11 games after sacking their coach & they are miles away from a finals team

We are planets away from playing finals!

Sadly yes. 3 of our wins this year were by under a goal, so we also had luck help us out at times 

Imagine right now if we were sitting on 2 wins and Goodwin was telling us about weekly improvements and to be patient...

We need some real answers or 1,000’s of Memberships will not be renewed. 

[Deefensive Language 108]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

A camp that was supposed to happened nearly 2 years ago is now effecting our performance?? Wait what?

What effect did the camp make when we knocked off Hawthorn on our way to a prelim? It was all quite on that front hey.

This is getting too funny. We have far bigger issues like lack of skill level and injuries that havr killed us this year plus poor coaching. 

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on.

The camp itself is not affecting our performance right now. 

The aftermath of unchecked resentment against a leader COULD be killing our drive and "connection" between Goodwin's game plan on paper and our execution.

If players don't respect you they won't bleed for you out on the footy field.

To those who say "it was 18 months ago, get over it" try telling that to a bitter spouse 18 months after you cheat on her (just to show an example of how impressions and biases last and bitterness remains when left to fester rather than be properly addressed and confronted).

People arguing otherwise must not know what it feels like to work under a boss who [censored] you off months ago and doesn't seem to give a stuff. Even the sight of their face can annoy you.

I'm not saying this is happening now, but it could be considering the ODD malaise that hit so many of our playing group. This goes beyond general conditioning. Teams don't just plummet like we did without some weird [censored] going on. It's too extreme a downfall for there to be a simple explanation.

Calling this a blip is offensive.

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sadly yes. 3 of our wins this year were by under a goal, so we also had luck help us out at times 

Imagine right now if we were sitting on 2 wins and Goodwin was telling us about weekly improvements and to be patient...

We need some real answers or 1,000’s of Memberships will not be renewed. 

that's already a given

[Demon trucker 1,737]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes it was a great shame that Simon did not put his foot down and say

“Who is coming with me...”

Could have been the defining moment in his coaching career. 

As it stands his long term future is on very shaky earth

How did the same camp go for the Crows, that camp has  fractured their coaches relationship with many of his players

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

Just now, don't make me angry said:

How did the same camp go for the Crows, that camp has  fractured their coaches relationship with many of his players

Who cares what happened at Adelaide 

They had their Coach murdered and still carried on

We have been inept for Decades with overpaid players on our lists...

[Pennant St Dee 11,250]

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

God, give me strength. 

It was 18 months ago for f..k sakes. 

Are you surprised we have supporters looking for every excuse from a 55 year old curse, to 186 to the FD only reviewing the entire season instead of just the prelim.

Thr answers are there from 

Interupted pre seasons having players underdone

Footy department not tweaking the game plan enough 

Players being complacent

Injuries 

Coach and playing group inexperienced and still learning 

Lack of depth 

Each of these things has combined to create a lack of confidence and what we are seeing to create the perfect storm

[dazzledavey36 48,700]

4 minutes ago, Deefensive Language said:

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on.

The camp itself is not affecting our performance right now. 

The aftermath of unchecked resentment against a leader COULD be killing our drive and "connection" between Goodwin's game plan on paper and our execution.

If players don't respect you they won't bleed for you out on the footy field.

To those who say "it was 18 months ago, get over it" try telling that to a bitter spouse 18 months after you cheat on her (just to show an example of how impressions and biases last and bitterness remains when left to fester rather than be properly addressed and confronted).

People arguing otherwise must not know what it feels like to work under a boss who [censored] you off months ago and doesn't seem to give a stuff. Even the sight of their face can annoy you.

I'm not saying this is happening now, but it could be considering the ODD malaise that hit so many of our playing group. This goes beyond general conditioning. Teams don't just plummet like we did without some weird [censored] going on. It's too extreme a downfall for there to be a simple explanation.

Calling this a blip is offensive.

Load of rubbish, please don't make assumptions on things you actually have no clue of.

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

4 minutes ago, Deefensive Language said:

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on.

The camp itself is not affecting our performance right now. 

The aftermath of unchecked resentment against a leader COULD be killing our drive and "connection" between Goodwin's game plan on paper and our execution.

If players don't respect you they won't bleed for you out on the footy field.

To those who say "it was 18 months ago, get over it" try telling that to a bitter spouse 18 months after you cheat on her (just to show an example of how impressions and biases last and bitterness remains when left to fester rather than be properly addressed and confronted).

People arguing otherwise must not know what it feels like to work under a boss who [censored] you off months ago and doesn't seem to give a stuff. Even the sight of their face can annoy you.

I'm not saying this is happening now, but it could be considering the ODD malaise that hit so many of our playing group. This goes beyond general conditioning. Teams don't just plummet like we did without some weird [censored] going on. It's too extreme a downfall for there to be a simple explanation.

Calling this a blip is offensive.

Dead right mate. It’s not actually the Camp. 

It’s the Players telling the Coach that they are not going to do it....

That stuff doesn’t get forgotten entirely, regardless of what we are told. 

Goodwin should have gone on that Camp and put it back on the players...

”Well are you coming or not, Who is with me...?”

[beelzebub 22,225]

12 minutes ago, Deefensive Language said:

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on.

The camp itself is not affecting our performance right now. 

The aftermath of unchecked resentment against a leader COULD be killing our drive and "connection" between Goodwin's game plan on paper and our execution.

If players don't respect you they won't bleed for you out on the footy field.

To those who say "it was 18 months ago, get over it" try telling that to a bitter spouse 18 months after you cheat on her (just to show an example of how impressions and biases last and bitterness remains when left to fester rather than be properly addressed and confronted).

People arguing otherwise must not know what it feels like to work under a boss who [censored] you off months ago and doesn't seem to give a stuff. Even the sight of their face can annoy you.

I'm not saying this is happening now, but it could be considering the ODD malaise that hit so many of our playing group. This goes beyond general conditioning. Teams don't just plummet like we did without some weird [censored] going on. It's too extreme a downfall for there to be a simple explanation.

Calling this a blip is offensive.

I tend to agree that those who , as their right is I suppose , just suggest it's all a joke  may not be seeing the bigger picture. That picture is not just expanse but time.

Quite often in work places something can happen that sets off a chain of events. The eventual calamity may not be for months or years, but it's festering away. People can often get pushed offside by a person or some situation, they put it aside and go on as though all is OK. But the seed is sown. Even though one may put head down , bum up and put shoulder to the wheel in order to get on with things that niggle is still there.

A dam doesnt fail because it suddenly fails ( short of a squadron of Lancasters) . That moment has been ages in the making. It starts often with a small crack....and time....and pressure.

Edited August 11, 2019 by beelzebub

[Demon trucker 1,737]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Funny how we don’t hear your voice on talk back radio anymore  not so much to say now?

Did you ever have a new teacher at school that you “broke” on their first day?

If so, did you ever respect their words after that??

 

Well that's because I don't work night shift as much, use to start work at 9 and finish around 12 the next day now I don't start until after 3am, and don't get into radio reception at 5am, to hard to get on talk back radio during the day, but that's like  you make assumptions based on your own opinions, and things you don't know nothing about rather than the actual facts

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

10 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Well that's because I don't work night shift as much, use to start work at 9 and finish around 12 the next day now I don't start until after 3am, and don't get into radio reception at 5am, to hard to get on talk back radio during the day, but that's like  you make assumptions based on your own opinions, and things you don't know nothing about rather than the actual facts

I don’t have to make assumptions, i used to hear you on air regularly. 

Was always entertaining, i knew it wouldn’t last into this year

[Demon trucker 1,737]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Dead right mate. It’s not actually the Camp. 

It’s the Players telling the Coach that they are not going to do it....

That stuff doesn’t get forgotten entirely, regardless of what we are told. 

Goodwin should have gone on that Camp and put it back on the players...

”Well are you coming or not, Who is with me...?”

What the hell has the camp got to do with the worst preseason injury list in history, we have used 38 players on list this year, no other team has had as many injuries we have had the whole season, team like essendon had very few injuries though out the year, but have lost a few over the last three weeks now they are a shambles.

[beelzebub 22,225]

5 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

What the hell has the camp got to do with the worst preseason injury list in history, we have used 38 players on list this year, no other team has had as many injuries we have had the whole season, team like essendon had very few injuries though out the year, but have lost a few over the last three weeks now they are a shambles.

just changed the goalposts....That wasnt the thrust of the discussion

[Demon trucker 1,737]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I don’t have to make assumptions, i used to hear you on air regularly. 

Was always entertaining, i knew it wouldn’t last into this year

Did u read the post I am not awake to be on late night talk back, if I was doing the same shift I would be on the radio, I live in echuca and not in Melbourne until the late morning when Sen are not taking calls between 4 and 6, and its very hard to get on the radio. Have u got the fonz's problem, it has nothing to do with how the team is playing.

[Demon trucker 1,737]

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

just changed the goalposts....That wasnt the thrust of the discussion

Not changing anything you lot of MFCSS members are making the connection with the camp and our season, this preseason is why the team is playing so badly not a preseason camp 2 years ago.  so the question is, is the camp from 2 years ago relevant to this season, no it is not.

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 minute ago, don't make me angry said:

Not changing anything you lot of MFCSS members are making the connection with the camp and our season, this preseason is why the team is playing so badly not a preseason camp 2 years ago.  so the question is, is the camp from 2 years ago relevant to this season, no it is not.

yes it might.....everything has an effect.

[Demons11 6,404]

39 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Are you surprised we have supporters looking for every excuse from a 55 year old curse, to 186 to the FD only reviewing the entire season instead of just the prelim.

Thr answers are there from 

Interupted pre seasons having players underdone

Footy department not tweaking the game plan enough 

Players being complacent

Injuries 

Coach and playing group inexperienced and still learning 

Lack of depth 

Each of these things has combined to create a lack of confidence and what we are seeing to create the perfect storm

Can you please leave Demonland, you make to much sense. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

1 hour ago, don't make me angry said:

What the hell has the camp got to do with the worst preseason injury list in history, we have used 38 players on list this year, no other team has had as many injuries we have had the whole season, team like essendon had very few injuries though out the year, but have lost a few over the last three weeks now they are a shambles.

Keep regurgitating that old excuse all you like. 

It does not explain the deplorable skills that our midfield continues to show every week. Basic Skills have evaporated this year, why?

Injuries are a part of the problem, but by no means the answer.

Are you one of those that believes we will be all cool and beating everyone next year? To easy and simple, that will only happen if major changes occur in 2 weeks imo,  because an entire list doesn’t lose its skills and Mojo for an entire season unless there are some serious problems within the walls

Hopefully McCartney was one of them....

(no idea why the font sizes changed. Wasn’t intended)

Edited August 11, 2019 by Sir Why You Little

[Pates 9,536]

Since we’re dredging up the past let’s look back to see if the tanking debacle is still affecting players that we’re around since then, or if we’re still mentally scarred from when Neeld was coaching. 

I see no reason to look further back than 12 months ago and fact is 12 months ago we had ingredients that many considered to have us competing at the top for a while. The camp got cancelled and we went on the make finales, for me that’s where that narrative ends. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

@Pates on all seriousness  i think context sets the time parameter. 

Goodwins training  wheels came off when Roos left.  Gameday wise a year earlier.  I think its not only fair but relevant  to afford  anything within his tenure as having had affect.

[chookrat 3,776]

2 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

How did the same camp go for the Crows, that camp has  fractured their coaches relationship with many of his players

Our camp didn't feature doing Voodoo on our indigenous players like the Adelaide camp