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Deefensive Language

Is the pre-season camp debacle still relevant?

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Have a reread of the original Caroline Wilson report about the brutal preseason camp that was cancelled at the last minute due to player anxiety and subsequent AFLPA intervention.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-fall-out-from-the-melbourne-pre-season-camp-fiasco-20180316-p4z4oe.html

The media has forgotten (particularly after 2018 success), which Wilson admits would have happened. But a few quotes strike me as worthy of revisiting 18 months later.

"And co-captain Jones, who fully expected the camp to go ahead, sees fault on both sides in terms of communication but believes he understands his younger teammates so much better now."

Jones found himself between a rock and a hard place. At this level of leadership, if you find yourself losing touch with the viewpoint and methods of higher-ups, trouble will brew. Captain and coach must be 100% aligned in their vision. In the 18 months since, has Jones been given any reasons to lose faith in Goodwin. After what we've seen, the chances would be extremely slim he remains a loyal foot soldier.

TMac as well...a very articulate man...was clearly keen to re-sign last year. Beginning of this year, he was a shell of himself. What struck his motivation?

‘"It must be a slow news day,’’ said Melbourne president Glen Bartlett unconvincingly back in December."

Can you imagine an old man running the whole show saying that when you're crapping your pants about sleep deprivation exercises and empathizing with a teammate who had his season (and likely career) derailed? (I'm not blaming Tyson's decline entirely on the kneecap issue, but we often forget how sharp he was in his final year at GWS).

In other words, the board are out of touch. Have they successfully built a strong culture? A family culture like you find at Geelong or Hawthorn. A club insider I know from the mid 2000s era saw a sick culture and clueless board. I wonder what Paul Roos thinks. Find it suspicious he never speaks out about how much he loved his time there? The silence is deafening.

 

"The Goodwin view is that his team missed an opportunity to grow stronger together."

Clueless. Anxiety brewed unchecked throughout 2017. Isn't it his job to perceive this? Or earn the trust of enough so that he can put his biases aside and listen/accept responsibility? We have seen in this year's presses Goodwin is unwilling to speak hard truths. Completely blinkered to the reality of how the team is being exploited by cunning opposition. 

But, psychology tells me that's it's not mere stubbornness. I genuinely don't think Goodwin realises the subtleties of what is happening. We've all had bosses who couldn't see past their own egos. Goodwin's ability to empathise with a playing group is absent. But in a twisted way we can't admonish him for this because he may just plain not get it. It is well established you can't just tell a person to change. They need to come to the conclusion themselves.

Imagine how Jones and TMac felt when their coach turned around and lamented the missed opportunity to GROW on a camp! Jones singlehandedly kept a young crew afloat when Neeld was crushing the place. And just this year, Trac nearly drowned in the pool doing useless hypoxia training. Goodwin joked about and said he needs to remember to breath next time. 

This is a man who does not understand 18-35 year old men - their needs, wants and social lives.

It's easy to forget for the casual observer how the human emotions are so completely entwined with output and performance in the workplace (or the playing field). I'm sure crusty traditionalists like Danny Frawley will say we need to harden up and take it.

I'm in my mid 30s and I don't necessarily like the "new normal" either! But you can't deny that the world is different now. It's irrational, challenging and rife with over-parenting (even of those over 18 years) and entitlement.

Footy has entered a sensitive age, and with more and more young men crumbling under the weight of expectation, the need for emotionally intelligent human leadership is absolutely essential. Look at Buckley/Hardwick/Fagan examples in recent times.

Is it too late for the club to confront the mistakes of the past? Are they capable?

Because I sure as hell don't want to waste my time, money and emotional energy supporting a failed relic from another era.

I want to support and happy, brave, mindful group of people that understand modern life in the 2020s, and why we play football in the first place. 

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Let’s see what Burgess can do 

But having worked in a big company for many years, going past the Boss to change a workflow always had repercussions. 

That whole saga has always made me feel uneasy. 

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@Deefensive Language  Quite the interesting post.

What actually happened and why etc is not something I'm particularly au fait with. That said there have been rumblings in certain quarters for quite some time...( coincidentally...oh...about the time Roos left )

I know that there is nearly always more than meets the eye with these things. A bit of a lid's been placed on some disquiet at Melbourne for some whiles now.

Not sure I would concur with everything in the OP, but it makes a provoking read.

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2 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

I think this preseason had more of an effect with many key players never having the opportunity to get fit due to surgeries.

Maybe they would have if they'd done the camp the preseason prior.

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I thought they were over it and had developed an esprit de corps during last year's finals series... fat lot of good that did us this year!

Maybe soul searching back 18-20 months is a bit far, how about Goodwin simply starts by conducting a detailed review of PF18, perhaps he can update our game plan ahead of 2020, better late than never!

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

@Deefensive Language  Quite the interesting post.

What actually happened and why etc is not something I'm particularly au fait with. That said there have been rumblings in certain quarters for quite some time...( coincidentally...oh...about the time Roos left )

I know that there is nearly always more than meets the eye with these things. A bit of a lid's been placed on some disquiet at Melbourne for some whiles now.

Not sure I would concur with everything in the OP, but it makes a provoking read.

You've hit the nail on the head in saying that there's always more than meets the eye. It's an issue for supporters of all football clubs.

Given the tanking issue and everything since, it would be a nice gesture to the members for someone in a position of power to call enough is enough on lids being placed and just admit misjudgements (we all make them!)

The Adam Goodes story is a good case study. It feels so normal to break it open now but at the time there was a huge ignorance surrounding the whole affair.

Maybe the pre season camp and resulting resentments are resolved...but maybe they aren't. The only way you ensure everyone's recovered as an organisation is get everyone together and reflect. In a big business you just fire the dissenters but you can't run a footy team like that.

Edited by Deefensive Language
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34 minutes ago, Deefensive Language said:

You've hit the nail on the head in saying that there's always more than meets the eye. It's an issue for supporters of all football clubs.

Given the tanking issue and everything since, it would be a nice gesture to the members for someone in a position of power to call enough is enough on lids being placed and just admit misjudgements (we all make them!)

The Adam Goodes story is a good case study. It feels so normal to break it open now but at the time there was a huge ignorance surrounding the whole affair.

Maybe the pre season camp and resulting resentments are resolved...but maybe they aren't. The only way you ensure everyone's recovered as an organisation is get everyone together and reflect. In a big business you just fire the dissenters but you can't run a footy team like that.

Yes i agree. Pert or Bartlett need to give the 52,000 members a full apology for the 2019 Campaign. It has failed on every level. 

Goodwin sending me a Post Match email telling me of weekly improvements is just a complete punch in the guts and it shows me that he has no idea. 

Worsfold last night at least owned the result and apologised for it and said it will be worked out. 

Goodwin has never done that, his message is always to be patient. That tells me two things. Denial and Spin...

A long gruelling summer awaits this soft club...

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This occurred for the 2018 pre season & they end up playing finals & not sure how it relates to 2019 pre season???

 

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1 minute ago, Demonsone said:

This occurred for the 2018 pre season & they end up playing finals & not sure how it relates to 2019 pre season???

 

Close enough is good enough.....

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1 hour ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

I think this preseason had more of an effect with many key players never having the opportunity to get fit due to surgeries.

There is that but there is also the psychological capitulation after that.  From a physical point of view we should have seen incremental improvement through these season.

Unfortunately our coaches and leaders have been unable to get the collective psyche strong enough again to pull out a few wins.  The constant turnovers are a result of that.

I can accept that the list was not healthy enough to make this a premiership or even finals season.

The concern is the failure to pull out a few character building, back against the wall wins from which to build into 2020....and maybe convince a few recruits that we are worth coming to.

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For mine , in a fashion it wasnt what the actual revolt was about ( though the machinations warrant closer inspection no doubt ) it's that there was even anything that reeked of discord. Clearly everyone IS NOT on the same page. There was obviously a Hollywood style attempt at unity but just like LaLaLand I can only now feel it was all a charade..

Melbourne seems to have become masters of Spin, shame we aren't so good at Football

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16 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes i agree. Pert or Bartlett need to give the 52,000 members a full apology for the 2019 Campaign. It has failed on every level. 

Goodwin sending me a Post Match email telling me of weekly improvements is just a complete punch in the guts and it shows me that he has no idea. 

Worsfold last night at least owned the result and apologised for it and said it will be worked out. 

Goodwin has never done that, his message is always to be patient. That tells me two things. Denial and Spin...

A long gruelling summer awaits this soft club...

Big difference.

One was 100 points.  We are consistently doing down by less than 30ish.

In a sense Goodwin is right.  IE that we are not far away.  A couple less turnovers and some slightly straighter kicking for goal per game in 2019 and we play finals.

Unfortunately our inability to handle pressure sees us consistently short of placing ourselves in winning positions.  And the rest of the comp knows it.

Leadership and coaching.

 

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I would have no problems at all with a player revolt, BUT by doing that, the players then have to give 100% every week to prove that they are infact above what was proposed. 

This of course has not happened 

The effort yesterday in the 2nd and 3rd Quarters was pitiful apart from 2-3 players, skills and attitude. 

But then The MFC Attitude is what we are talking about. 

It’s not right and hasn’t been for a very long time

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3 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Big difference.

One was 100 points.  We are consistently doing down by less than 30ish.

In a sense Goodwin is right.  IE that we are not far away.  A couple less turnovers and some slightly straighter kicking for goal per game in 2019 and we play finals.

Unfortunately our inability to handle pressure sees us consistently short of placing ourselves in winning positions.  And the rest of the comp knows it.

Leadership and coaching.

 

We were never in that game yesterday, yes we haven’t been smashed all year. But we have been shocking with effort. 

It really is almost the same thing. 

Who has been inspiring this year??

Not one player...

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A club with decent leaders would never have this happen. That the players felt they had to go to the PA is a complete indictment on Goodwin and our leadership group..

We are still feeling the effects because we have no leadership other than Gawn and Goodwin and his coaching staff are clueless how to fix our 'game plan'.

Headless chooks the lot of them

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Simon should have taken his tent and esky and gone camping in spite of the limp players, I bet a few would have  joined him, then at least he would know who was up for the battles ahead.

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40 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Goodwin sending me a Post Match email telling me of weekly improvements is just a complete punch in the guts and it shows me that he has no idea

You do realise that you've opted in to this "punch in the guts" in your Marketing preferences?

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1 minute ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

You do realise that you've opted in to this "punch in the guts" in your Marketing preferences?

Yes. I paid $250 at the start of the year to hear what our coach had to say. 

I don’t expect to be fed bullsh. 

I expect to know what is going on, and in situations like we have now, how the problems are to be rectified. 

This years Best and Fairest and AGM Speeches will be fascinating. 

I do hope the club provides a live stream for both events

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2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

God, give me strength. 

It was 18 months ago for f..k sakes. 

yes it was...but in hindsight it possibly has more weight that we were prepared to concede at the time

 

11 minutes ago, bluey said:

Simon should have taken his tent and esky and gone camping in spite of the limp players, I bet a few would have  joined him, then at least he would know who was up for the battles ahead.

Actually...would have been a masterstroke..really

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You guys are [censored] in the head to make a connection, with this year and a camp that did not happen in 2017, why not bring up the smith sacking, let's all slash our wrists, hell let's go back to 186, surely that has a impact in 2019

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1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

yes it was...but in hindsight it possibly has more weight that we were prepared to concede at the time

 

Actually...would have been a masterstroke..really

Yes it was a great shame that Simon did not put his foot down and say

“Who is coming with me...”

Could have been the defining moment in his coaching career. 

As it stands his long term future is on very shaky earth

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9 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

You guys are [censored] in the head to make a connection, with this year and a camp that did not happen in 2017, why not bring up the smith sacking, let's all slash our wrists, hell let's go back to 186, surely that has a impact in 2019

The more you look at it the more certain I am actually there IS a connection. That is when the ROT really set in...

The demise of this season is everything about how we went about last season...and that last season started with its preseason.

Happy to be derided...hell add it to the list

Im not slashing wrists. The success of this club has nothing what soever to do with my happiness and state of content. We have no success...so I HAD to find other things to enjoy ;)  Cheers

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