POSTMATCH: Rd 21 vs Collingwood

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

Did Gus forget his helmet in the first qtr?? 

[picket fence 15,060]

Goodwins coaching philosophy and his reluctance to make wholesale changes to his plans have been just as detrimental to our year than any other single factor. What did we do different from the Preliminary Final Spanking last year?? NOTHING. Teams have totally worked us out. Sure we go helter skelter to get it then what??? The 666 has also found us out and we have still not come up with a suitable game style and personel to work with it.

I feel unless Goodwin goes right back to square one his days next year will be numbered. Other than that  a few other observations ,Viney should NOT be Captain and his game is teetering, manic attack on footy and nothing else, Jones sorry to say but the Game has passed him by. Who is the skills kicking coach?? Our Goal kicking is atrocious. May needs a totally professional pre season, but questions MUST be asked how he injures the SAME Hamstring when clearly he was passed fit by fitness team??

It really is embarrasing to say that the ONLY highlight yesterday was Oscar kicking a goal!! I mean really! Great goal Oscar.

Club is back to Neeld like days IMV

[Redleg 37,478]

1 hour ago, binman said:

 

I actually think our game plan coveted over the cracks of our poor skill last year. 

We need some more skilled kicks in our team thi draft and trade period.

Probably agree with first point, but our skills weren’t as bad last year. This year no one can handle the ball except May and he has only played a few games. I can’t recall a Dees side with such poor disposal.

The second is a given.

We also need pace and a couple of small goal kicking forwards.

[Redleg 37,478]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Joel Smith showed in the game at Casey (prior to him being made to play injured) that he could be our most dangerous forward.

Fritsch, Smith and McDonald is our best taller trio.

Add Trac, Weid or Petty and a young Jeffy and our forward 6 is ok.

[praha 10,267]

Yesterday I had the honour of standing near Collingwood supporters.

1. They were absolutely infatuated with Fritsch. They love him. Baker as well. They were getting stuck into Oliver and Jones. "Tackle, tackle" they would jeer every time Jones or Viney would go to impact a contest.

2. Eventually it got to a point where they were dissecting Melbourne's play along with me and 2 other Melbourne supporters nearby. Actually turned into a half-decent conversation (when one of their drunk 50-something mates wasn't straight up insulting me for supporting Melbourne)

Without fail, every time we marked or took possession across the flanks or CHF, it was like we waited for Collingwood to flood. We would have a paddock of space ahead, and one, maybe two, one-on-ones, mostly Fritsch, and occasionally one of OMac or Melksham. 

We almost never, ever kicked it to the advantage of our forwards, blatantly ignored leads, and almost always only went forward once Howe or someone else had plugged the hole. This made Fritsch's marks inside 50 stands out all the more because every time he was kicked the ball he was almost always surrounded by 2-3 Pies players, or had to impact a contest with 2-3 players.

It was rather astonishing every time someone pointed it out: Melbourne players would actually wait and watch as black and white streamed into our forward line. I can't fathom it. There was no kicking to space; no leading into the space; no kicks to advantage. Nothing. Just mindless, blind kicks to contests.

This is actually, literally our gameplan: avoid space, minimise turnovers in space, and thus, put the ball at the advantage of our contested ball winners. The problem is, we get found out time and time again.

Players are hesitant to kick to space and kick to a one-on-one because they're petrified of the turnover and opposition transition. 

Rather than adjusting and implementing a strategy that allows for two-way running, open space, and free-flowing football, we will the match and opposition to turn it into a slog, which is in effect an act in margin minimisation. 

The second half of the year has seen "improvement" from garbage, but do you all realise what we are right now? We are now the Roos-coached team circa 2014. This is the Roos mantra we are seeing. Numbers behind the ball, condensed play and contests, low scoring. Margin minimisation.

It is pitiful to watch, and trying to find any sort of positives is futile because we're not supposed to. Goodwin has lost the players this year and is already looking to 2020. It is pointless even watching these remaining matches because they are hopeless, pathetic attempts at trying to look "meaningful" and "positive" when in actual fact the fans are being taken for a huge ride.

The towel has been thrown in, which is a pathetic indictment on a team that has purportedly been trying to build a winning culture. Even when the year is dead and buried to play to win and you stand for something.

We are a pathetic club and nothing short of a flag next year would change my perception. We could make a Prelim and I wouldn't give a [censored], that this year even turned out to be the way it is says to me that absolutely nothing has changed. Still we find ourselves falling to new depths of mediocrity. It happens time and time again and some here refuse to see it. 

"Disappointed" is an understatement. Goodwin needs to stop cuddling and nurturing this playing group. It's not 2014 anymore. The club should be angry at this year because the impact felt across the club is disastrous. 31k yesterday vs Collingwood is [censored] pathetic and it's 100% entirely unequivocally the club's fault. 

[Redleg 37,478]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Nah i prefer Petty, he is a strong contested mark and already thats good enough for me to give us something to work with. In fact I reckon he is a far better mark then Weideman.

ATM he is. Strong one grab hands even when not in best position.

Get 30 more games into him and 5-6 kgs of muscle and he is going to be a very good player.

[Dee Zephyr 17,309]

On footy smarts, footy IQ or however you choose to label it, how many do we have running around at the moment? I’m talking more about positioning when the ball is in transit to either end of the ground. From observations at the grounds, other teams seem to have players in the right positions before the ball even gets to them.

The Fritta forward/back debate has gone on all season and apologies if it’s been mentioned already but his 14 marks inside 50 since R17 have him ranked equal third-most in the comp. Not a bad effort by the guy in a team that lacks ‘connection’. The guy just knows what do inside 50.

One play stood out to me yesterday about a player double guessing himself for one reason or another. I’m talking about the Varcoe goal late in the second term. The ball had worked its way into the Pies’ attacking 50 near the Southern stand pocket, JKH worked hard to run back to the goal square and plonked himself there on his own. When Varcoe got the ball out of the pack, JKH inexplicably ran out of the square to about 20 metres out directly in front to guard no one. Varcoe snaps on the left, JKH does a mad dash back but too late. The ball crossed the line at waist height. This isn’t a knock on JKH ( tried hard all game), he was angry enough at himself for moving out in the first place and allowing a goal that shouldn’t have gone through. Little moments like that make a difference and make we wonder if it’s a player that can’t handle the top level or the coaching expects too much from current players. 

[dazzledavey36 48,651]

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

ATM he is. Strong one grab hands even when not in best position.

Get 30 more games into him and 5-6 kgs of muscle and he is going to be a very good player.

Yep and that's what excites me. He's already filled out a lot since his debut game.

We are also forgetting that he is only 19 years of age and is listed at 197cm. He could still potentially grow to the 199cm mark.

Huge potential. 

[jumbo returns 6,484]

5 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

On footy smarts, footy IQ or however you choose to label it, how many do we have running around at the moment? I’m talking more about positioning when the ball is in transit to either end of the ground. From observations at the grounds, other teams seem to have players in the right positions before the ball even gets to them.

The Fritta forward/back debate has gone on all season and apologies if it’s been mentioned already but his 14 marks inside 50 since R17 have him ranked equal third-most in the comp. Not a bad effort by the guy in a team that lacks ‘connection’. The guy just knows what do inside 50.

One play stood out to me yesterday about a player double guessing himself for one reason or another. I’m talking about the Varcoe goal late in the second term. The ball had worked its way into the Pies’ attacking 50 near the Southern stand pocket, JKH worked hard to run back to the goal square and plonked himself there on his own. When Varcoe got the ball out of the pack, JKH inexplicably ran out of the square to about 20 metres out directly in front to guard no one. Varcoe snaps on the left, JKH does a mad dash back but too late. The ball crossed the line at waist height. This isn’t a knock on JKH ( tried hard all game), he was angry enough at himself for moving out in the first place and allowing a goal that shouldn’t have gone through. Little moments like that make a difference and make we wonder if it’s a player that can’t handle the top level or the coaching expects too much from current players. 

Good points

Poor JKH is probably suffering from performance anxiety and trying to belong

I thought he was okay yesterday and I hope he becomes a regular on the wing

Sadly, it will come down to delisting one of JKH, Billy or ANB

[Deemania since 56 6,124]

17 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Grundy seemed to be in Max’s way at every ball up, jumping into the space at the drop of the ball forcing Max to reach over him. When does that tactic become blocking? 

Quite observable - he plays for the Filth; therefore, he is allowed to do this against an opponent who is a far better ruckman. Max has to be blocked, held, screened, pushed every game - at all forms of ruck contests including pack marks. The green snot goblins reckon it is fairy Nuff, obviously. It will descend into kicking him in the balls, next. 

[Deemania since 56 6,124]

27 minutes ago, Redleg said:

ATM he is. Strong one grab hands even when not in best position.

Get 30 more games into him and 5-6 kgs of muscle and he is going to be a very good player.

Tick, correct.

[dazzledavey36 48,651]

7 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Good points

Poor JKH is probably suffering from performance anxiety and trying to belong

I thought he was okay yesterday and I hope he becomes a regular on the wing

Sadly, it will come down to delisting one of JKH, Billy or ANB

Honestly I would take JKH ahead of ANB in a heart beat. In fact I'd trade ANB back to SA and keep JKH and put Stretch on the rookie list. JKH would have played a lot more games this year had it not been for his knee injury, and I think based on his last 2 games the club haven't exactly put a line through his name and really want to give him a chance to prove himself and so far the last 2 games he hasn't put a foot wrong. 

Stretch is another who just hasn't had a clear run at it for the past 2 years due to injury. 

[Deemania since 56 6,124]

30 minutes ago, praha said:

Melbourne players would actually wait and watch as black and white streamed into our forward line. I can't fathom it. There was no kicking to space; no leading into the space; no kicks to advantage. Nothing. Just mindless, blind kicks to contests.

The problem all year. 

[Kent 2,574]

1 hour ago, praha said:

Yesterday I had the honour of standing near Collingwood supporters.

1. They were absolutely infatuated with Fritsch. They love him. Baker as well. They were getting stuck into Oliver and Jones. "Tackle, tackle" they would jeer every time Jones or Viney would go to impact a contest.

2. Eventually it got to a point where they were dissecting Melbourne's play along with me and 2 other Melbourne supporters nearby. Actually turned into a half-decent conversation (when one of their drunk 50-something mates wasn't straight up insulting me for supporting Melbourne)

Without fail, every time we marked or took possession across the flanks or CHF, it was like we waited for Collingwood to flood. We would have a paddock of space ahead, and one, maybe two, one-on-ones, mostly Fritsch, and occasionally one of OMac or Melksham. 

We almost never, ever kicked it to the advantage of our forwards, blatantly ignored leads, and almost always only went forward once Howe or someone else had plugged the hole. This made Fritsch's marks inside 50 stands out all the more because every time he was kicked the ball he was almost always surrounded by 2-3 Pies players, or had to impact a contest with 2-3 players.

It was rather astonishing every time someone pointed it out: Melbourne players would actually wait and watch as black and white streamed into our forward line. I can't fathom it. There was no kicking to space; no leading into the space; no kicks to advantage. Nothing. Just mindless, blind kicks to contests.

This is actually, literally our gameplan: avoid space, minimise turnovers in space, and thus, put the ball at the advantage of our contested ball winners. The problem is, we get found out time and time again.

Players are hesitant to kick to space and kick to a one-on-one because they're petrified of the turnover and opposition transition. 

Rather than adjusting and implementing a strategy that allows for two-way running, open space, and free-flowing football, we will the match and opposition to turn it into a slog, which is in effect an act in margin minimisation. 

The second half of the year has seen "improvement" from garbage, but do you all realise what we are right now? We are now the Roos-coached team circa 2014. This is the Roos mantra we are seeing. Numbers behind the ball, condensed play and contests, low scoring. Margin minimisation.

It is pitiful to watch, and trying to find any sort of positives is futile because we're not supposed to. Goodwin has lost the players this year and is already looking to 2020. It is pointless even watching these remaining matches because they are hopeless, pathetic attempts at trying to look "meaningful" and "positive" when in actual fact the fans are being taken for a huge ride.

The towel has been thrown in, which is a pathetic indictment on a team that has purportedly been trying to build a winning culture. Even when the year is dead and buried to play to win and you stand for something.

We are a pathetic club and nothing short of a flag next year would change my perception. We could make a Prelim and I wouldn't give a [censored], that this year even turned out to be the way it is says to me that absolutely nothing has changed. Still we find ourselves falling to new depths of mediocrity. It happens time and time again and some here refuse to see it. 

"Disappointed" is an understatement. Goodwin needs to stop cuddling and nurturing this playing group. It's not 2014 anymore. The club should be angry at this year because the impact felt across the club is disastrous. 31k yesterday vs Collingwood is [censored] pathetic and it's 100% entirely unequivocally the club's fault. 

I also engaged with Pies supporters as there were few demons supporters around me.

I must say I enjoyed their analysis.

The problems with our game are easy to see.I almost can't watch at the moment so predictable are the poor set ups inevitable turnovers and missed kick tackles handball and goals.

The problems have been easy to see the coaching staff either can't or won't address them.

How our board are putting up with this is beyond me. Maybe they believe that the team metrics are trending in the right direction.

 If they are prepared to accept that claptrap then anything is possible.Please for the love of God  end this torture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dee Zephyr 17,309]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Good points

Poor JKH is probably suffering from performance anxiety and trying to belong

I thought he was okay yesterday and I hope he becomes a regular on the wing

Sadly, it will come down to delisting one of JKH, Billy or ANB

JKH is certainly trying his hardest to stay on the list. We were hearing ‘close’ for an ANB extension two months ago only to be replaced by the sound of crickets now. I honestly thought we were over looking forward to trades and drafts yet, here we are again jumbo. We await with great interest.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

Fritts and Petty were already positives before yesterday.

Yesterdays game was poor again, in skill and effort.

I am now looking at the coaching, as injuries are no longer the excuse for style of play, especially when your opponents injuries are far worse. 

This is is the second time in 3 years, where a decimated Pies side has belted us. Don’t be fooled by the margin at the end, like the Bombers last night, we got a few last minute junk time goals. 

I just can’t believe we had Coaches yesterday who left the most dangerous Pie unmanned the whole game. Sidebottom was actually laughing at times.

We seem to be labouring under a play on at all costs game plan, which with our poor skill, is destroying us every game.

Sad to say this, but you have to stop caring, because it is too upsetting.

This would have to be one of the most disappointing seasons for us in the last 50 years, as we had so much hope for the year.

We had 40 uncontested marks in the first quarter. We were definitely NOT labouring under a play on at all costs game plan. The style was clearly changed to chip kicking/marking and not playing on.

[beelzebub 22,225]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We had 40 uncontested marks in the first quarter. We were definitely NOT labouring under a play on at all costs game plan. The style was clearly changed to chip kicking/marking and not playing on.

It was most bizarre to watch I thought. A bit like two wary boxers circling a ring , neither really prepared to lay a real punch, just shadow jabbing. Was very surprised that one , we tried this tact and secondly that Collingwood didnt come off the ropes more. Was like they were mesmerized...lol.. Then Bucks woke them up

Round two..they changed up...we fell apart

[loges 6,002]

14 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Apparently they only had 6 from their grand final side out. We had 9 from our prelim side. The quality of the overall game reflected that.

Yes, and just shows how many people can't see the forest for the trees.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

53 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We had 40 uncontested marks in the first quarter. We were definitely NOT labouring under a play on at all costs game plan. The style was clearly changed to chip kicking/marking and not playing on.

We either play on straight away or take an eternity to get back behind the mark to kick the ball.

Nothing in between.

[loges 6,002]

3 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

Yes - not sure if Melksham was rusty yesterday, but that was the worst game I’ve seen him play for us - usually a great user of the ball.

Of course Melksham's rusty and so is Lever!

[nosoupforme 3,085]

19 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We either play on straight away or take an eternity to get back behind the mark to kick the ball.

Nothing in between.

Do you also mean nothing in between the ears? That is certainly missing. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,968]

5 hours ago, Redleg said:

This would have to be one of the most disappointing seasons for us in the last 50 years, as we had so much hope for the year.

After waiting through a decade of misery and desolation, we finally get a decent list together, with kids with tons of potential, make the finals ... and then throw away an entire year of these guys' careers.

The damage may prove to be worse than that. How many chances are we going to get, let alone squander?

So much at stake next year.

[jnrmac 18,914]

6 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I'd prefer Petty went back and omac had another couple of games with a fair amount of freedom. It looks like he's smashed himself from pillar to post this year as well, so playing without as much pressure might do wonders for him heading into the preseason.

Hardly. Has barely got near the ball or his player.

[Redleg 37,478]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We had 40 uncontested marks in the first quarter. We were definitely NOT labouring under a play on at all costs game plan. The style was clearly changed to chip kicking/marking and not playing on.

First: you can have 40 uncontested marks through play on, or stop, chip and kick. Uncontested marks is not a stat that means we weren't playing on.

Second: watch Oliver who plays on, even sometimes before he actually takes possession of the ball. Too many of our players are playing on when they shouldn't and that is most likely a game plan tactic and a demand from the Coaches. It is one of the factors involved in our world record turnovers for the year.

Third: we had 103 marks for the game of which 8 were contested. Therefore 97 uncontested marks for the game. You say we had 40 in the first quarter. That would leave 57 for the last three quarters. That to me is indicative of playing on and failing to get the pass accurately to a team mate, which is what we have done all year.

Go back and watch our games and look at how many passes fail to hit a target and you will find that most of them come from not steadying and playing on. Yes we also miss passes when we do stop and steady, but far less.

To me the game style of contested footy, with no outside run and continually playing on, exposes poorly skilled sides, just as has happened with us all year.

So, after all that, I have come to the conclusion that so many others came to earlier on in the year, that in addition to injuries, some bad umpiring, bad luck in often getting opposition sides ( not yesterday though), at their strongest,  as an example the Giants had Hopper, Coniglio, Kelly, Finlayson, De Boer and Himmelberg etc  against us, compared to friday against the Hawks without any of them, a lack of pace and without any decent small forwards, we have also been poorly coached this year.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Redleg

[jnrmac 18,914]

4 hours ago, praha said:

Yesterday I had the honour of standing near Collingwood supporters.

Without fail, every time we marked or took possession across the flanks or CHF, it was like we waited for Collingwood to flood. We would have a paddock of space ahead, and one, maybe two, one-on-ones, mostly Fritsch, and occasionally one of OMac or Melksham. 

We almost never, ever kicked it to the advantage of our forwards, blatantly ignored leads, and almost always only went forward once Howe or someone else had plugged the hole. This made Fritsch's marks inside 50 stands out all the more because every time he was kicked the ball he was almost always surrounded by 2-3 Pies players, or had to impact a contest with 2-3 players.

It was rather astonishing every time someone pointed it out: Melbourne players would actually wait and watch as black and white streamed into our forward line. I can't fathom it. There was no kicking to space; no leading into the space; no kicks to advantage. Nothing. Just mindless, blind kicks to contests.

Goodwin has lost the players this year and is already looking to 2020. It is pointless even watching these remaining matches because they are hopeless, pathetic attempts at trying to look "meaningful" and "positive" when in actual fact the fans are being taken for a huge ride.

The towel has been thrown in, which is a pathetic indictment on a team that has purportedly been trying to build a winning culture. Even when the year is dead and buried to play to win and you stand for something.

We are a pathetic club and nothing short of a flag next year would change my perception. We could make a Prelim and I wouldn't give a [censored], that this year even turned out to be the way it is says to me that absolutely nothing has changed. Still we find ourselves falling to new depths of mediocrity. It happens time and time again and some here refuse to see it. 

"Disappointed" is an understatement. Goodwin needs to stop cuddling and nurturing this playing group. It's not 2014 anymore. The club should be angry at this year because the impact felt across the club is disastrous. 31k yesterday vs Collingwood is [censored] pathetic and it's 100% entirely unequivocally the club's fault. 

You have nailed it. Amazing some can't see this. The coaching department have completely lost the players. They have no idea how to fix it.

Yeah, keep blaming injuries. FMD